The Naval Cutter ALERT- 1777, POF by Jimsky

[Jimsky]

I know, I've not posted for a while and it is past due. Without further delay and explanation of what life is all about, I would like to rehabilitate. First, and most importantly, I would like to thanks everyone for visiting this blog, likes, and those who commented with questions and suggestions!

Frames saga (continue)...
In the last post, we've discussed cutting and assembling the frames. We use chock to attach floor timbers and first futtocks. Today, I would like to discuss the 'cant' frames. We have the Stem and Stern cant frames, and they have different names (depending on use purpose). Check out the few images from the AOTS book of Alert. * Images from the book for information purposes only.



Some of the names are 11- bollard timber, 10 - Hawse pieces. In any case, for us, in our build, we will call them 'cant' frames. The stem and\or bow section cant frames represented in the kit are from # 1 to 16 for bow and 58 to 71 for the stern. The first 6 bow frames are single (type 1, from the instruction manual), the rest of the frames are assembled using chocks or plain scarph joint. Contrary, the stern cant frames don't contain single frames and assembled using either chock or plain scarph joint. All frames must be assembled prior to beveling.

All cant (Stem and Stern) frames MUST be beveled or faired using the template prior to glue on the keel. I hope you save those (templates) when cut out from the frames MDF board. Each frame consists of two templates: for inside and outside shapes. (see photo below frame #5)


You must carefully trace the shape of the template, making sure it aligns across all the borders of the frame. I use clamps to hold down templates while tracing the line.

The template for outside beveling, the notch facing outside (red arrow)


The template for inside beveling, the notch facing inside the frame (red arrow)




The end-piece frame shown at the bottom will be glued to the rising wood, it has a very complex shape. Special care should be taken while shaping. I suggest leaving some 'meat' for final shaping. Take a look below.

Both templates together. Note that one template is longer than another, and the diagonal pencil line is the shaping border.


Most of the shaping done using the rotary tool and sandpaper drum. I cannot tell the grid of this sandpaper, but my big guess would be 320. It removes wood well, but leave some strike marks so be careful. Other 'finer' grids might be used, but will be less effective and will burn the timber. Also, you have to control both: the top and bottom sides. Use your 'thumb' finger as the rest for controlling pressure and the amount of removing material. Move the tool in one direction only - facing your body. Do I have to tell you to wear a mask?? I made small video clips to help with this process.

As you can see, it is not that difficult but time-consuming as you have to bevel both sides for each frame. Below are some photos with the final results. The idea of those templates is as simple as brilliant and I would like to compliment the @Trident Model













The final shape of the end-piece must be done while gluing to the keel.
The same way will be shaped\beveleed the stern cant frames including the 5 full frames. Make sure to retain the cut-outs from the frames MDF board.

to be continued...

 

[paulv1958]

Very well described and shown. Following the steps as shown in the manual works!

 

[Jimsky]

...continue from what we have left

To 'bolt' or Not to 'bolt' - that's the question!

I've mentioned, the importance to assemble the frames before proceeding with beveling each of the frames. What I didn't mention, is if you decide to imitate frames 'bolting' you must do it before beveling. In the earlier posts, we discuss whether to use bolts or simply opt-out for those. Looks like the discussion split between the ones who will use bolt imitation and those who will not. Also, the members split into the methods and materials using and positioning to imitate bolts. The AOTS book helped a bit, but some questions were left in the air.
Frankly, all bolting will be hardly visible when the model is completed. The accommodations compartment and fully framing deck partially planked will leave small areas where fastenings will be seen if seen at all. However, I made my decision towards bolting the frames and will use brass wire as the material.



Drilling so many consistent holes would require the jig. I made one using the brass square tubing found in my stash. The inside size was a bit smaller than 4.00mm, I have to use a square file to widen it. Then I cut in half and have two templates. The second, I use for another hole pattern with plain scarphs (long and short).



A scatch was made and holes placement was determined using the thickness of the actual frames ~ 4.00mm and AOTS book isometric drawings.



Here is how the jig looks once completed.


The jig, however, used only to position and mark out the holes. It is NOT used to actually drill the holes. I use the drill press and vise making the holes. They are consistent in size and pattern. Check out...







The next step is to insert the brass wire 0.4mm. The wire comes in a roll and needs to be straightened. By pooling out a bit you make it straight. Then using 1000 grit sandpaper clean it out. Using plyers insert the wire into the holes and leave about 1mm from both sides. Repeat until populate all the holes.
In the photos below the Stern cant frames, but the technique is the same for all the frames where chocks are used.







I didn't cut close to the frame this time. I use that extra 1mm as a guide when introducing a drop of CA glue from both sides. Those drops were enough to hold the bolts in place.







Now, we are ready to bevel the frames




to be continued with assembling the frames...until then, thank you all and be safe.

 

[Maarten]

Very nice work Jim. As I roll the bolts to have a round bolt head I place them after faring. Secondly I scrape the fared frames to finish them smoothly, scraping is not possible anymore when the bolts are placed before faring. Below a test with these, a 1/2" and 1" bolt.

 

[Jimsky]

Nice observations, Maarten. Yes, I saw your 'bolting' version in your blog. With round 'head' scraping is not possible...my bolts are not rounded heads, and I plan to scrape after finishing all framing, as part of final sanding. Will you do the counter hole to 'hide' the bolt head?

 

[Maarten]

Nice observations, Maarten. Yes, I saw your 'bolting' version in your blog. With round 'head' scraping is not possible...my bolts are not rounded heads, and I plan to scrape after finishing all framing, as part of final sanding. Will you do the counter hole to 'hide' the bolt head?

My bolts are not glued and I still can move them.
The idea is to finish inside and outside, move the bolts not to influence the final scraping. They will be locked by finishing with oil.

 

[Jimsky]

My bolts are not glued and I still can move them.
The idea is to finish inside and outside, move the bolts not to influence the final scraping. They will be locked by finishing with oil.

Hmm...mmm, but the oil will not hold them in place...am I correct? They still have a chance to move unless you will clinch them (both sides), and not make an imitation. I have a dilemma bolting double frames together...

 

[Uwek]

My friend- very good work and explanations

 

[Jimsky]

My friend- very good work and explanations

Thanks, Uwe, we are all trying to make our logs as much helpful for the novices and anyone who may come across this nice kit. For the first-time POF kit, it has to be simple enough to assemble, otherwise, the modeler may lose interest. I think Triden Models ensure that the quality of the kit, didn't compromise the assembly simplicity.

 

[Jimsky]

Greetings mates... I came across the double-frames bolting and not sure what should I do. I have an idea and here some tests.

Below is the brass wire 0.47mm with a rounded head.



...and here is the soft steel wire 0.43mm with a rounded head


...no, no... this is not the actual frame. It is an old frame #17, I over beveled to the point that needs a replacement so it becomes a test. The new one was build from scratch, though.

What do you think about those bolts? Many thanks

 

[Uwek]

Hallo my friend,
I can understand, that you want to show the bolts on the chocks, they will be partly visible from the top....
but the double frames bolting ?
I used the photo by @Jolley Roger and I think there is only 5 or 7mm distance between the double frame and the first single frame. I think these bolts will absolutely not visible, only if you make some cut out windows into the framing to be able to see inside the hull from the side.
Related your question:
Now the round head bolt looks smaller than the hole in the timber. usually the head had a bigger diameter than the bolt by itself - than it is better to make the bolts here in the same way like these of the chucks.
If you are using the "Russian knive method" (like Maarten mentioned) you should try with a softer metal, that you get somehow a mushroom head bigger than the diameter of your wire (was it Kudin?)

 

[Maarten]

I would go for the soft iron ones, but are these bolted or treenailed?

 

[PoulD]

I would use the brass ones. Cherry contains a high amount of tannin. Ferrous metals will react with tannin over time and blacken the wood around the bolts. In a large scale that might even look quite natural but at 1:48 I think it would just look like a huge oversized bolt.
Agree with Uwe that the holes seems to be too big

 

[Jimsky]

I would go for the soft iron ones, but are these bolted or treenailed?

Thank you for the feedback, my friend! This will be fake bolted!! With multiple tries, I found a very good system, IMHO.
1. drill the hole smaller the actual wire size
2. insert the wire thru just leave a notch (both ends)
3. using concave bur, 'round' the heads lightly deep\touch the wood. Just deep enough for visibility

Either material (brass or steel) there will be no blackening as a solution penetrate the timber and make a mess.

 

[Jimsky]

Hallo my friend,
I can understand, that you want to show the bolts on the chocks, they will be partly visible from the top....
but the double frames bolting ?
I used the photo by @Jolley Roger and I think there is only 5 or 7mm distance between the double frame and the first single frame. I think these bolts will absolutely not visible, only if you make some cut out windows into the framing to be able to see inside the hull from the side.
Related your question:
Now the round head bolt looks smaller than the hole in the timber. usually the head had a bigger diameter than the bolt by itself - than it is better to make the bolts here in the same way like these of the chucks.
If you are using the "Russian knive method" (like Maarten mentioned) you should try with a softer metal, that you get somehow a mushroom head bigger than the diameter of your wire (was it Kudin?)

Many thanks for your feedback, Uwe.
Yes, I also thought about bolts' visibility between the frames. You may convince me, my friend towards to opt-out for bolting double-frames together.
As for the size of the hole... It looks a bit bigger purposely (see my response to Maarten). The nails system was first introduced by Dr. Mike and yes, Andrey Kudin uses it in his builds.

 

[PoulD]

Did you anneal the wire before you rolled with the "knife"?

 

[Jimsky]

I would use the brass ones. Cherry contains a high amount of tannin. Ferrous metals will react with tannin over time and blacken the wood around the bolts. In a large scale that might even look quite natural but at 1:48 I think it would just look like a huge oversized bolt.
Agree with Uwe that the holes seems to be too big

Valid point, Poul, I never considered the reaction of wood depending on the material. The hole smaller than the shaft so I will push it with force. This is the head hole size. It imitates the washer under the bolts head.

 

[Jimsky]

Did you anneal the wire before you rolled with the "knife"?

No, I didn't anneal nor rolled. I use a concave (cup) bur to make the head round

 

[Uwek]

No, I didn't anneal nor rolled. I use a concave (cup) bur to make the head round

View attachment 186451

Hallo Jim,
with cutting the head with such a bur it is clear, why the bolt is looking smaller than the hole, because the head has a really a smaller head (at the level of the timber edge where the hole starts)

 

[Jimsky]

Hallo Jim,
with cutting the head with such a bur it is clear, why the bolt is looking smaller than the hole, because the head has a really a smaller head (at the level of the timber edge where the hole starts)

Yes Uwe, you are correct again. But the appearance of a large hole is made purposely to imitate a 'washer' under the bolt. Assume, it is the size of a washer, not the head of the bolt. I will provide more photos, later today. logically, there should be a 'washer' under the bolt. But it was testing...