Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]

[dockattner]

Paul's model is too good for that , made on high level ,
I don't think there will be endless urges...
but some points in rigging are critical, why do not tell about them if there is clear evidance that some mistake done , but I like his work very much to stay speachless aside.... ))

This is one of the wonderful benefits of being on a forum like this. What stands out as an obvious mistake to Kirill was completely overlooked by me.

Now that he has pointed it out, it all seems so very obvious. How could I have missed this? I guess the best explanation I can come up with is that new builders like me are literally drowning in information and details. Rigging is particularly problematic. Eighteen months ago I didn't know a deadeye from a block, that ropes are oriented left and right, what a shroud was... And when we look at drawings with lines going everywhere (most of which seem to go to nowhere!) it all becomes rather overwhelming. Add on top of that the simple fact that there are errors found in our resources: previous builds, books, even museum drawings are often found to be wrong (I can't think of a set of Vasa instructions that don't call for eyebolts on the underside of the trees). The end-product of all of this is a curious desperation in the heart of the aspiring builder - well, at least this aspiring builder.

Anyway, I am grateful for the help. It's an easy fix which I'll address right after I make a panda out of .02 thread (that's some funny stuff Rob!).

 

[RDN1954]

Paul will have urges and they will lead to fixes on fixes on fixes. I think if there was a plan that said make a panda bear out of .02 thread and hang it under the crows nest and he missed it he would go and do it just so the ship is right

I'm also pretty sure he would cut his ship in two, if said panda was supposed to be hanging from the chandelier in the captain's cabin.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

This is one of the wonderful benefits of being on a forum like this. What stands out as an obvious mistake to Kirill was completely overlooked by me.

Now that he has pointed it out, it all seems so very obvious. How could I have missed this? I guess the best explanation I can come up with is that new builders like me are literally drowning in information and details. Rigging is particularly problematic. Eighteen months ago I didn't know a deadeye from a block, that ropes are oriented left and right, what a shroud was... And when we look at drawings with lines going everywhere (most of which seem to go to nowhere!) it all becomes rather overwhelming. Add on top of that the simple fact that there are errors found in our resources: previous builds, books, even museum drawings are often found to be wrong (I can't think of a set of Vasa instructions that don't call for eyebolts on the underside of the trees). The end-product of all of this is a curious desperation in the heart of the aspiring builder - well, at least this aspiring builder.

Anyway, I am grateful for the help. It's an easy fix which I'll address right after I make a panda out of .02 thread (that's some funny stuff Rob!).

We are all in the same boat, Paul (pun intended). Building a model like this is an exercise in locating and organizing information long before you pick up any tools. Kit instructions do not come with a list of features that were simplified, and we have to rely on drawings, books, paintings and vocal forum buddies to help keep the features as accurate as possible. There are so many sources that I have spent an hour looking for that ONE specific JPEG picture on my computer that showed a feature I wanted to use, and sometimes I forget to use one of my sources and that step gets skipped, only to be discovered later, to my eternal disappointment. If you can fix something that went off the tracks, it's worth doing. You can't always trust your sources either, so one has to gather as much information as possible from multiple sources and then agonize over which version to use in your model. It's no wonder that the average model builder does not tackle wooden sailing ships, and we as builders are in a niche group of hobbyists. I will say it again; I am hugely grateful when one of our members points out an error in my build, or suggests a different feature based on their research sources and experience. I know you feel the same way too, because you are only on your first ship, and I'm only on my second.

 

[Steef66]

the best explanation I can come up with is that new builders like me are literally drowning in information and details. Rigging is particularly problematic. Eighteen months ago I didn't know a deadeye from a block, that ropes are oriented left and right, what a shroud was... And when we look at drawings with lines going everywhere (most of which seem to go to nowhere!) it all becomes rather overwhelming.

Yes I feel the same. Now with my second ship I learned more and more and discover things that most of us don't think about. Rigging is great to learn, but impossible to now the whole era from 1400 till 1900. Every day I see things in the other logs of the other builders how they do it. I was a few months thinking about how to make the anchors of brass. Looking on flea markets for old usefull things where I could scrap the metals out. Till I saw here someone made them of wood. Eureka. 1 day work and got an anchor of wood. Never think about to use wood.

 

[Robp1025]

I'm also pretty sure he would cut his ship in two, if said panda was supposed to be hanging from the chandelier in the captain's cabin.

I bet you when he put it back together he would sit back and it would looked even better than before and drink some Nescafe and then say this looks good I feel better but I need another year on rigging now

 

[Richie]

This is one of the wonderful benefits of being on a forum like this. What stands out as an obvious mistake to Kirill was completely overlooked by me.

Now that he has pointed it out, it all seems so very obvious. How could I have missed this? I guess the best explanation I can come up with is that new builders like me are literally drowning in information and details. Rigging is particularly problematic. Eighteen months ago I didn't know a deadeye from a block, that ropes are oriented left and right, what a shroud was... And when we look at drawings with lines going everywhere (most of which seem to go to nowhere!) it all becomes rather overwhelming. Add on top of that the simple fact that there are errors found in our resources: previous builds, books, even museum drawings are often found to be wrong (I can't think of a set of Vasa instructions that don't call for eyebolts on the underside of the trees). The end-product of all of this is a curious desperation in the heart of the aspiring builder - well, at least this aspiring builder.

Anyway, I am grateful for the help. It's an easy fix which I'll address right after I make a panda out of .02 thread (that's some funny stuff Rob!).

I feel the same Paul, to me it's like trying to learn all the intricacies of a foreign language for a county I have never been too and will never go to because lets add a time factor in as well, even so some will still be able to sing the language and others like me will have to mumble their way through it.

 

[Richie]

We are all in the same boat, Paul

I was about to say the same thing.

There are so many sources that I have spent an hour looking for that ONE specific JPEG picture on my computer that showed a feature I wanted to use, and sometimes I forget to use one of my sources and that step gets skipped, only to be discovered later

I thought it was only me that did things like that, I only realised a few days ago something I should have done differently on my current build but it's too late now.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I feel the same Paul, to me it's like trying to learn all the intricacies of a foreign language for a county I have never been too and will never go to because lets add a time factor in as well, even so some will still be able to sing the language and others like me will have to mumble their way through it.

I'd pay real money to hear you sing in American...

 

[kirill4]

When reading all interesting posts above
I found myself ,that last a few years, one of my favorite ,lets say ,table books -remains Anderson R.C. and Hoeckel ( kind of short version of Anderson, often easy-faster to find necessary info, than in more detailed Anderson...and Hoeckel says about other equipment of the 17th vessel as well ,not only about rigging )...
When sometimes I have found and begin to " study " interesting photos some of museum model of 16-17 century , interesting for me,
than every time I am convinced that Anderson's rightness in every, every detail of the rigging, which he tells about in his books ...
I would like to advice simple 17th rigging joke algorithm ))
# to keep his books under hand when You are busy with your rigging...
# first, make short look to the book , what he says about this or that lines You intend to fitt,
#and than do it!
This way we will have very good lightened road in rigging darkness
))

 

[Robp1025]

This is one of the wonderful benefits of being on a forum like this. What stands out as an obvious mistake to Kirill was completely overlooked by me.

Now that he has pointed it out, it all seems so very obvious. How could I have missed this? I guess the best explanation I can come up with is that new builders like me are literally drowning in information and details. Rigging is particularly problematic. Eighteen months ago I didn't know a deadeye from a block, that ropes are oriented left and right, what a shroud was... And when we look at drawings with lines going everywhere (most of which seem to go to nowhere!) it all becomes rather overwhelming. Add on top of that the simple fact that there are errors found in our resources: previous builds, books, even museum drawings are often found to be wrong (I can't think of a set of Vasa instructions that don't call for eyebolts on the underside of the trees). The end-product of all of this is a curious desperation in the heart of the aspiring builder - well, at least this aspiring builder.

Anyway, I am grateful for the help. It's an easy fix which I'll address right after I make a panda out of .02 thread (that's some funny stuff Rob!).

I would be so happy to see it!! Honestly would be interesting to see!!

 

[RDN1954]

and drink some Nescafe

Even my CFI, former Airforce, drank coffee instead of Nescafé.
(He called it breakfast and with reason...)

 

[Richie]

I was about to say the same thing.

I thought it was only me that did things like that, I only realised a few days ago something I should have done differently on my current build but it's too late now.

I'd pay real money to hear you sing in American...

You would be demanding a refund if you hear me sing anything.

 

[Robp1025]

You would be demanding a refund if you hear me sing anything.

I would pay some money to hear it

 

[GrantTyler]

I feel the same Paul, to me it's like trying to learn all the intricacies of a foreign language for a county I have never been too and will never go to because lets add a time factor in as well, even so some will still be able to sing the language and others like me will have to mumble their way through it.

...I’m still at the humming stage...

 

[dockattner]

When reading all interesting posts above
I found myself ,that last a few years, one of my favorite ,lets say ,table books -remains Anderson R.C. and Hoeckel ( kind of short version of Anderson, often easy-faster to find necessary info, than in more detailed Anderson...and Hoeckel says about other equipment of the 17th vessel as well ,not only about rigging )...
When sometimes I have found and begin to " study " interesting photos some of museum model of 16-17 century , interesting for me,
than every time I am convinced that Anderson's rightness in every, every detail of the rigging, which he tells about in his books ...
I would like to advice simple 17th rigging joke algorithm ))
# to keep his books under hand when You are busy with your rigging...
# first, make short look to the book , what he says about this or that lines You intend to fitt,
#and than do it!
This way we will have very good lightened road in rigging darkness
))

Thank you for this post Kirill. While I don't have Hoeckel, I do have an increasingly worn out copy of Anderson. I like him because he writes with a certain amount of modesty, honestly confessing what he does not know for certain, but suspects might be true.

Yet there still remains a challenge even with Anderson - he presumes certain bits of knowledge that newcomers lack. For example, he says things like "the line runs to an eyebolt on the deck" or "to the crosstree" or "there is a fiddle block at the cap secured in the usual way." Well, those things probably make perfect sense to some of you but they are not entirely clear to me. Anderson also acknowledges up front that his text does not provide the correct order for completing the rigging. While I appreciate that would have been nearly impossible given the range of ships he is writing about - I could use more guidance when I eventually move from standing rigging to running rigging.

Anyway, the research is fun for me so I'll just do the best I can hoping that I stumble across the correct solution more often than not.

 

[Richie]

Thank you for this post Kirill. While I don't have Hoeckel, I do have an increasingly worn out copy of Anderson. I like him because he writes with a certain amount of modesty, honestly confessing what he does not know for certain, but suspects might be true.

Yet there still remains a challenge even with Anderson - he presumes certain bits of knowledge that newcomers lack. For example, he says things like "the line runs to an eyebolt on the deck" or "to the crosstree" or "there is a fiddle block at the cap secured in the usual way." Well, those things probably make perfect sense to some of you but they are not entirely clear to me. Anderson also acknowledges up front that his text does not provide the correct order for completing the rigging. While I appreciate that would have been nearly impossible given the range of ships he is writing about - I could use more guidance when I eventually move from standing rigging to running rigging.

Anyway, the research is fun for me so I'll just do the best I can hoping that I stumble across the correct solution more often than not.

I hear everything you say Paul, I need arrows pointing to the pictures to know what he is talking about, words are not enough from me.

 

[kirill4]

Good day Paul,Richie
Oh yes!... unfortunatelly Mr.Anderson doesn't guide us 100 % , but direct us in right way a lot )) ... without his "assistance" I would never complete my model rigging ...
For building Vasa model, we have one very big advantage and help , in addition to Anderson book - it is Vasa forum + Vasa model museum drawings , even Fred H. says they are no perfect anymore )) ,for me they still are!
I don't know when it finaly happened to see Vasa II book ,
which is still waiting for coming a years, but meanwhile we have old version of Vasa rigging, which precisly follow Anderson in everything...ok...almost everything ))
With sailing vessel's terminology, I think You are already quite familiar!
All The Best!
Kirill

 

[Dean62]

Thank you for this post Kirill. While I don't have Hoeckel, I do have an increasingly worn out copy of Anderson. I like him because he writes with a certain amount of modesty, honestly confessing what he does not know for certain, but suspects might be true.

Yet there still remains a challenge even with Anderson - he presumes certain bits of knowledge that newcomers lack. For example, he says things like "the line runs to an eyebolt on the deck" or "to the crosstree" or "there is a fiddle block at the cap secured in the usual way." Well, those things probably make perfect sense to some of you but they are not entirely clear to me. Anderson also acknowledges up front that his text does not provide the correct order for completing the rigging. While I appreciate that would have been nearly impossible given the range of ships he is writing about - I could use more guidance when I eventually move from standing rigging to running rigging.

Anyway, the research is fun for me so I'll just do the best I can hoping that I stumble across the correct solution more often than not.

Hey Paul,
First, I wanted to say it looks like you had a great vacation, and were fortunate enough to meet up with Maarten. That was really nice of him.
Second, when it comes to the order of rigging, I am no expert, and this may be rhetorical to say, but I believe it is somewhat intuitive in the sense that you complete standing rigging first... and then the rigging to raise the yards on the masts next, before finally completely the running rigging for the sails. You can work bow to stern, but I am not sure if that really matters. And finally, you can always tie off rigging to the belaying pins of hard to reach areas, prior to running the line to the sail. I realize that is very general, but is how I have approached rigging with my limited experience! I wish I had more to offer!

 

[kirill4]

Which order of rigging to choose... interesting question...
I don't have too much experience...have one model actually ,where I try to be seriously with rigging...
Spontaniously I started from bowsprit anf fore mast alone...
(Later on I found it easy to work with one mast only , and don't have another mast nearby, which could seriously restrict working area...)
I ve rigged them almost complitely - standing, runnihg rigging and sails...
started from botyom to top,
than switched on to main mast , complete it ( together with f. braces and bowlines of main mast sails) , and third step was mizzen mast, final touch was rigging tucks and sheets of main sails.
Sails were completely assembled on the yard with all relevant blocks and rigging lines before attach them to the masts.
Some stays,with purchase on the lower end, I fitted in reverse order...
This rigging order has some advantage - your work mainly with one mast and have empty/ free space on deck in front of your hand, much easy to manipulate with running rigging....

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

I feel the same Paul, to me it's like trying to learn all the intricacies of a foreign language for a county I have never been too and will never go to because lets add a time factor in as well, even so some will still be able to sing the language and others like me will have to mumble their way through it.

This is exactly how I feel about the super-daunting prospect of 17th C. rigging!