You forget the guy in the middle of the picture looking over our shoulders.
.It was great fun to meet Paul and Lynn and to enjoy our hobby together.
Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]
- Thread starter dockattner
- Start date
- Watchers 148
.It was great fun to meet Paul and Lynn and to enjoy our hobby together.
That is a fabulous picture. Looks you're having good time.
Obviously, SOS is going above and beyond the forum capabilities. It is a real joy to watch such photos (with the guy in the middle
), Very happy for you gentleman!
Wow, I wish I had come across this post earlier! Very well written and informative indeed, and nowhere near the ....Warning: this post is only for someone who is interested in what I learned doing ratlines thus far. It will not be edifying (or even of passing interest) to anyone else. If you do not give a flyer about an amateur's perspective on the challenge of ratlining, I suggest you just skip it in the hope that I will post something worthwhile in the future. And that is what I have to say on that.
Today's Entry: A Beginners Guide to Doing Ratlines.
And I don't merely mean FOR beginners, as much as I mean BY a beginner. One of my stated goals when I began this build log was to share the journey of an inexperienced builder as he encountered things that more experienced builders considered ordinary. I wanted to work through "everyone knows how to do that" wearing the shoes of "actually, I have no idea how to do that."
Early on in this build log I was able to share several (many?) of those experiences with you. But as I increasingly departed from the kit instructions, I encountered fewer opportunities to share. But doing ratlines is something many of us have or will encounter, so here are the things I have learned thus far offered in the hope that maybe there's a pearl for someone buried within.
A disclaimer: this is being written by someone who has done ratlines on a whopping total of TWO shroud sets. Arrogance? Foolishness?
A Beginners Guide
Watch a You Tube video or two. It's easier to watch someone tie a clove hitch than it is to read about it from a book...
First of all, your shrouds need to be SNUG or you will get yourself into all kinds of trouble trying to keep them straight while installing ratlines. It became clear early on that some of my shroud lines were too loose and this made things harder than it needed to be.
At each vertical station (at each ratline run) it is good to start with a length of line about twice the width of the shroud set - perhaps a bit less down low and certainly a bit more near the top.
It is called 'rattling down' but I rattled UP. I found it was easier to establish my horizontal orientation at the broader base than at the narrower top (I already had my futtock stave parallel to my channel - or nearly so).
I chose to loosely follow the line of the channel (but cheated a bit in the direction of the waterline) for the run of my ratlines. This has been discussed on other build logs and if I have it wrong, I am in good company.
It seemed logical to me to work from left to right because I tied each individual clove hitch from the top down (first time around the shroud was higher than second time around the shroud). I have seen others tie the clove hitch from bottom up so they tend to move from right to left. I tried both.
Most people (except for the superhuman archjofo) do not attempt to splice the ends, instead they use a simple overhand knot. The Vasa museum peeps suggested that a clove hitch was appropriate at the most fore and aft shrouds so that's what I did.
It is common to use a white paper background with horizontal lines drawn on it. I tried that but it didn't work for me (paper kept moving, shrouds got pulled out of vertical, ratlines wavered up and down). Kurt's batten strips solved all these problems perfectly and I will continue to do it that way. Note: I still put blank white paper behind the shroud so I could see what I was doing - there is too much visual background noise otherwise.
The only tool I used was a really high-quality curved tip pointy tweezers. You need one that will hold the line securely. I tried using a tweezers in each hand but that was a comedy of fumbles and dropped lines. Using the fingers of my 'off' hand was much better for me.
TroubleshootingDO NOT GLUE ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE RUN ALL RATLINES FOR A SHROUD SET. Even if you think you have just run the perfect line do not glue it in place. Do not glue the end where you are starting. Do not glue the end where you are finishing. Do not believe the malevolent people who tell you it is OK to glue things along the way. They do not have your best interests in mind. Indeed, they want to see you suffer and then sell them your kit at a deeply discounted price. They are the spawn of Lucifer and deserve nothing but your contempt (present readership excluded unless you are guilty of perpetrating this heinous crime against shipbuilding humanity - may God be merciful on your souls).
WOW! Not sure where that came from...
The most fore and aft shrouds are vulnerable to being pulled in toward the center. This looks bad and is hard to avoid. The sandpaper lined battens help, as does having a snug shroud (no, that is not code for something - and you are a sick puppy for wondering) but neither alone will prevent this from happening. You must notice that the outer shrouds are getting pulled in AS IT IS HAPPENING and take corrective action before running the next ratline otherwise you will 'institutionalize' your mistake and end up needing to go back and re-doing an entire side.
Take care along the way to keep all lines running at your preferred horizontal. It is easy to start tipping up or down.
Once you have completed all of the ratlines for a shroud set you are roughly 2/3rds the way done. Now, because you were so clever as to NOT HAVE GLUED ANYTHING in place, you have an opportunity to go back and clean things up. Even though you were doing your best work with each clove hitch trying to do everything just so - the lines above and below influence each another and you need to solve that problem. Some of the shrouds have been pulled too close - other ratlines are sagging too much.
Here is my approach to cleaning up...
Begin with the obvious problem areas. Just look at the whole thing in total and notice what needs to be corrected and adjust the big flaws before trying to get super detailed.
Once the big stuff has been dealt with then I chose to work from the bottom up and from the center out. So, on the lowest ratlines I started in the center and adjusted knots and shrouds so that the shroud was vertically straight and the ratline was level (or slightly drooped).
This is harder than it sounds because a clove hitch tightens on itself when you try to move anything laterally. My solution was to use my tweezers and slide the knot UP AND DOWN on the shroud to loosen the clove hitch. Sometimes just doing that allowed things to get better. Other times (after loosening the clove hitch) I would need to actively move either the shroud or the ratline. Oh, my ropes are poly and I have no idea if my approach works with other rope types.
Anyway, I worked from the center all the way to the left, fixing each shroud interval and ratline as needed - and then did the same from the center to the right. Having completed one line I still resisted the urge to glue anything in place - and went up a few more ratlines before going back and only gluing the ends (I used CA for this).
Eventually you will make your way through the entire shroud set and all of the ends have been glued. Now you can refine one more time if you have it in you but at some point it all becomes silly.
So, that is what I have learned thus far. If you have things you can add from your experience let 'er rip. It's not like this build log will get long or anything like that...
Working my way from the bottom up - center out:
View attachment 299116
Getting very close now:
View attachment 299118
Lower main finished on both sides:
View attachment 299119
View attachment 299120
See, I told you to just skip this post. That's 5 minutes of your life you will never get back.
Rather, a most productive 5 minutes. I am in the middle of rattling up and down on my Bluenose, constantly wondering if there is a better or easier way to do it all. Thanks for the running commentary Paul, it gives comfort to other fellow beginners who are at this stage of their modelling
And your ratlines look perfect by the way, well done
One fantastically smart guy and two guys with wood for brains…Obviously, SOS is going above and beyond the forum capabilities. It is a real joy to watch such photos (with the guy in the middle
What a great photo of the three of you!
Paul, I really enjoyed catching up on your epic vacation. Travel is what life is all about, as far as I'm concerned.
As a certified landlubber I have little experience with nautical things. Plus, there is a distinct lack of tall ships in Illinois USA. To that end our visit to the Batavia was fantastically edifying.
Things I learned at the Batavia:
Things I learned at the Batavia:
- The frames on these ships are massive.
- Deadeyes are way bigger than you would think. Picture a large dinner plate or a small serving platter and you’re still thinking too small.
- Hull planking is crazy thick. I would say in the 8-9 inch thick range. The thought of steaming and bending these into shape is mind-numbing.
- Blocks are also way bigger than you think. The small ones are the size of a five gallon bucket. The larger ones would reach the middle of my thigh.
- Our pursuit of near-perfection in our builds has no basis in reality. Frames commonly lack sharp 90 degree angles and are shaped according to the available timber.
- Bolts and trunnels go where they go. They aren’t random by any means, but neither are they precisely in a pattern.
- There is nothing pleasant about the inside of a ship - and this becomes increasingly true the lower you go.
- There are ropes everywhere - and they are not tidy.
- Today the Batavia is not quite 40 years old - and she is showing her age. Considering she has been sitting outdoors for that entire time (like all ships of this size) I was impressed with the amount of work that is necessary to keep a ship sea-worthy (which I would judge the Batavia is not). The upper masts have been taken down for work, the clinker planked upper portion has been stripped on the port side, the spritsail topmast looks like its ready to snap off...
Is this the right spot? Sorry for the backlighting and poor image quality...
Last edited:
Whew! That's a relief
I envy the opportunity you had to see one of these great ships up close Paul. And I can well understand your impressions. Perhaps we really start believing that blocks are only 4mm wide? I can also believe the 'nothing pleasant' bit; I was taken through a submarine once and couldn't get my head around the lack of space to do, well, anything. Quite an eye-opener
-Mark
Well, Paul - that is the very same window. I really am touched that you took the time to visit. If you ever find yourself in NYC, you must know you’ll have a friend to show you around.
All the best,
Marc
P.S. I extend that invitation to all our community
All the best,
Marc
P.S. I extend that invitation to all our community
To the Nomad,Whew! That's a relief
I envy the opportunity you had to see one of these great ships up close Paul. And I can well understand your impressions. Perhaps we really start believing that blocks are only 4mm wide? I can also believe the 'nothing pleasant' bit; I was taken through a submarine once and couldn't get my head around the lack of space to do, well, anything. Quite an eye-opener
-Mark
For a time, in college, a group of friends started calling me the Nomad; I had a tendency to wander. It was the one nickname in life that that has stuck. These days, it is more aspirational than reality.
I was going to recite some bit of nautically themed poetry or scream "piraten" but I didn't want to embarrass Maarten... I did, however, knock on it pretty hard with my knuckles and can confirm your work is holding up better than other parts of the ship.
Actually, they were saying, "No! Mad!".
The William Rex at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. There are not words...
And the Prins Willem from 1651 (in a glass case):
Ha ha, it takes one Nomad to recognise another I think? Itchy feet maybe. I must admit that I was in the same boat, drifting wherever the wind blew and dragging my family in toe as well. I will however never regret the small opportunities I grabbed to see more of the world, and now, having worked and lived in various continents, I feel a little bit more in tune with many members of this forum whose wonderful countries I have had the good fortune to witness first hand. But I get the aspiration v reality thing as well, which gets us all in the end I suppose
Travelling helps us to better understand eachother. Have seen and visited most continents (luckely as Europeans we have some holidays to spentHa ha, it takes one Nomad to recognise another I think? Itchy feet maybe. I must admit that I was in the same boat, drifting wherever the wind blew and dragging my family in toe as well. I will however never regret the small opportunities I grabbed to see more of the world, and now, having worked and lived in various continents, I feel a little bit more in tune with many members of this forum whose wonderful countries I have had the good fortune to witness first hand. But I get the aspiration v reality thing as well, which gets us all in the end I suppose
) and in the end we all want the same, a good and decent life with family and friends.Thats also the fun of our forum where we can meet and share our ideas in our common hobby whatever language you speak or country you come from.
Once again, thanks for sharing your commentary on the Batavia and your trip. This is a hugely fantastic, fun learning experience!
Paul those pictures are incredible, a great finish to your vacation.
Although it was a small format photo, it had the advantage of being underexposed for the most part. Then there is still information that can be retrieved:
It doesn't enjoy the 1st prize, but if you want Paul, with the original format ........
Regards, Peter