True story... Luckily for me I am really enjoying this hobby and love my Victory or after viewing Paul’s, yourself, Heinrich.....the list goes on and on..Deans carving (can’t leave the lion who no longer roars out), I would have stopped after I laid the keel
. Joke aside I love and respect guys who create model masterpieces.... gives us something to strive towards. Cheers Grant
That's the reason I made the scissor table. I can do this only max. 30 minutes. And when I go high just 5 minutes. The Spanish Galleon was not so big. I had a building plank where I could fix the ship in and lay the ship on here side. So I could do the job at a low level. But the PW is way to big to do so.
.
but I love the article...
Geez, Paul!
This is some quality ****-breaking
Awesome reference - THANKS!
Paul thank you for this- the best I have read thus far, truly insightful. “Spawn of Lucifer” ......Warning: this post is only for someone who is interested in what I learned doing ratlines thus far. It will not be edifying (or even of passing interest) to anyone else. If you do not give a flyer about an amateur's perspective on the challenge of ratlining, I suggest you just skip it in the hope that I will post something worthwhile in the future. And that is what I have to say on that.
Today's Entry: A Beginners Guide to Doing Ratlines.
And I don't merely mean FOR beginners, as much as I mean BY a beginner. One of my stated goals when I began this build log was to share the journey of an inexperienced builder as he encountered things that more experienced builders considered ordinary. I wanted to work through "everyone knows how to do that" wearing the shoes of "actually, I have no idea how to do that."
Early on in this build log I was able to share several (many?) of those experiences with you. But as I increasingly departed from the kit instructions, I encountered fewer opportunities to share. But doing ratlines is something many of us have or will encounter, so here are the things I have learned thus far offered in the hope that maybe there's a pearl for someone buried within.
A disclaimer: this is being written by someone who has done ratlines on a whopping total of TWO shroud sets. Arrogance? Foolishness?
A Beginners Guide
Watch a You Tube video or two. It's easier to watch someone tie a clove hitch than it is to read about it from a book...
First of all, your shrouds need to be SNUG or you will get yourself into all kinds of trouble trying to keep them straight while installing ratlines. It became clear early on that some of my shroud lines were too loose and this made things harder than it needed to be.
At each vertical station (at each ratline run) it is good to start with a length of line about twice the width of the shroud set - perhaps a bit less down low and certainly a bit more near the top.
It is called 'rattling down' but I rattled UP. I found it was easier to establish my horizontal orientation at the broader base than at the narrower top (I already had my futtock stave parallel to my channel - or nearly so).
I chose to loosely follow the line of the channel (but cheated a bit in the direction of the waterline) for the run of my ratlines. This has been discussed on other build logs and if I have it wrong, I am in good company.
It seemed logical to me to work from left to right because I tied each individual clove hitch from the top down (first time around the shroud was higher than second time around the shroud). I have seen others tie the clove hitch from bottom up so they tend to move from right to left. I tried both.
Most people (except for the superhuman archjofo) do not attempt to splice the ends, instead they use a simple overhand knot. The Vasa museum peeps suggested that a clove hitch was appropriate at the most fore and aft shrouds so that's what I did.
It is common to use a white paper background with horizontal lines drawn on it. I tried that but it didn't work for me (paper kept moving, shrouds got pulled out of vertical, ratlines wavered up and down). Kurt's batten strips solved all these problems perfectly and I will continue to do it that way. Note: I still put blank white paper behind the shroud so I could see what I was doing - there is too much visual background noise otherwise.
The only tool I used was a really high-quality curved tip pointy tweezers. You need one that will hold the line securely. I tried using a tweezers in each hand but that was a comedy of fumbles and dropped lines. Using the fingers of my 'off' hand was much better for me.
TroubleshootingDO NOT GLUE ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE RUN ALL RATLINES FOR A SHROUD SET. Even if you think you have just run the perfect line do not glue it in place. Do not glue the end where you are starting. Do not glue the end where you are finishing. Do not believe the malevolent people who tell you it is OK to glue things along the way. They do not have your best interests in mind. Indeed, they want to see you suffer and then sell them your kit at a deeply discounted price. They are the spawn of Lucifer and deserve nothing but your contempt (present readership excluded unless you are guilty of perpetrating this heinous crime against shipbuilding humanity - may God be merciful on your souls).
WOW! Not sure where that came from...
The most fore and aft shrouds are vulnerable to being pulled in toward the center. This looks bad and is hard to avoid. The sandpaper lined battens help, as does having a snug shroud (no, that is not code for something - and you are a sick puppy for wondering) but neither alone will prevent this from happening. You must notice that the outer shrouds are getting pulled in AS IT IS HAPPENING and take corrective action before running the next ratline otherwise you will 'institutionalize' your mistake and end up needing to go back and re-doing an entire side.
Take care along the way to keep all lines running at your preferred horizontal. It is easy to start tipping up or down.
Once you have completed all of the ratlines for a shroud set you are roughly 2/3rds the way done. Now, because you were so clever as to NOT HAVE GLUED ANYTHING in place, you have an opportunity to go back and clean things up. Even though you were doing your best work with each clove hitch trying to do everything just so - the lines above and below influence each another and you need to solve that problem. Some of the shrouds have been pulled too close - other ratlines are sagging too much.
Here is my approach to cleaning up...
Begin with the obvious problem areas. Just look at the whole thing in total and notice what needs to be corrected and adjust the big flaws before trying to get super detailed.
Once the big stuff has been dealt with then I chose to work from the bottom up and from the center out. So, on the lowest ratlines I started in the center and adjusted knots and shrouds so that the shroud was vertically straight and the ratline was level (or slightly drooped).
This is harder than it sounds because a clove hitch tightens on itself when you try to move anything laterally. My solution was to use my tweezers and slide the knot UP AND DOWN on the shroud to loosen the clove hitch. Sometimes just doing that allowed things to get better. Other times (after loosening the clove hitch) I would need to actively move either the shroud or the ratline. Oh, my ropes are poly and I have no idea if my approach works with other rope types.
Anyway, I worked from the center all the way to the left, fixing each shroud interval and ratline as needed - and then did the same from the center to the right. Having completed one line I still resisted the urge to glue anything in place - and went up a few more ratlines before going back and only gluing the ends (I used CA for this).
Eventually you will make your way through the entire shroud set and all of the ends have been glued. Now you can refine one more time if you have it in you but at some point it all becomes silly.
So, that is what I have learned thus far. If you have things you can add from your experience let 'er rip. It's not like this build log will get long or anything like that...
Working my way from the bottom up - center out:
View attachment 299116
Getting very close now:
View attachment 299118
Lower main finished on both sides:
View attachment 299119
View attachment 299120
See, I told you to just skip this post. That's 5 minutes of your life you will never get back
oh boy I have to remember that when one of my staff do something silly. Brilliant post my friend. Cheers Grant
Hey Paul, what a great narrative on rat lining! I will definitely incorporate sandpaper on my battens and adjusting from the center out, another great point. I am thinking about using a different source thread though. From my experience, nylon or polyester has such a tendency to stay 'straight' if you will and does not like to be tied into a knot and stay tight without a little spot of CA. I'm thinking something with a blend of cotton and polyester or maybe silk we shall see.Warning: this post is only for someone who is interested in what I learned doing ratlines thus far. It will not be edifying (or even of passing interest) to anyone else. If you do not give a flyer about an amateur's perspective on the challenge of ratlining, I suggest you just skip it in the hope that I will post something worthwhile in the future. And that is what I have to say on that.
Today's Entry: A Beginners Guide to Doing Ratlines.
And I don't merely mean FOR beginners, as much as I mean BY a beginner. One of my stated goals when I began this build log was to share the journey of an inexperienced builder as he encountered things that more experienced builders considered ordinary. I wanted to work through "everyone knows how to do that" wearing the shoes of "actually, I have no idea how to do that."
Early on in this build log I was able to share several (many?) of those experiences with you. But as I increasingly departed from the kit instructions, I encountered fewer opportunities to share. But doing ratlines is something many of us have or will encounter, so here are the things I have learned thus far offered in the hope that maybe there's a pearl for someone buried within.
A disclaimer: this is being written by someone who has done ratlines on a whopping total of TWO shroud sets. Arrogance? Foolishness?
A Beginners Guide
Watch a You Tube video or two. It's easier to watch someone tie a clove hitch than it is to read about it from a book...
First of all, your shrouds need to be SNUG or you will get yourself into all kinds of trouble trying to keep them straight while installing ratlines. It became clear early on that some of my shroud lines were too loose and this made things harder than it needed to be.
At each vertical station (at each ratline run) it is good to start with a length of line about twice the width of the shroud set - perhaps a bit less down low and certainly a bit more near the top.
It is called 'rattling down' but I rattled UP. I found it was easier to establish my horizontal orientation at the broader base than at the narrower top (I already had my futtock stave parallel to my channel - or nearly so).
I chose to loosely follow the line of the channel (but cheated a bit in the direction of the waterline) for the run of my ratlines. This has been discussed on other build logs and if I have it wrong, I am in good company.
It seemed logical to me to work from left to right because I tied each individual clove hitch from the top down (first time around the shroud was higher than second time around the shroud). I have seen others tie the clove hitch from bottom up so they tend to move from right to left. I tried both.
Most people (except for the superhuman archjofo) do not attempt to splice the ends, instead they use a simple overhand knot. The Vasa museum peeps suggested that a clove hitch was appropriate at the most fore and aft shrouds so that's what I did.
It is common to use a white paper background with horizontal lines drawn on it. I tried that but it didn't work for me (paper kept moving, shrouds got pulled out of vertical, ratlines wavered up and down). Kurt's batten strips solved all these problems perfectly and I will continue to do it that way. Note: I still put blank white paper behind the shroud so I could see what I was doing - there is too much visual background noise otherwise.
The only tool I used was a really high-quality curved tip pointy tweezers. You need one that will hold the line securely. I tried using a tweezers in each hand but that was a comedy of fumbles and dropped lines. Using the fingers of my 'off' hand was much better for me.
TroubleshootingDO NOT GLUE ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE RUN ALL RATLINES FOR A SHROUD SET. Even if you think you have just run the perfect line do not glue it in place. Do not glue the end where you are starting. Do not glue the end where you are finishing. Do not believe the malevolent people who tell you it is OK to glue things along the way. They do not have your best interests in mind. Indeed, they want to see you suffer and then sell them your kit at a deeply discounted price. They are the spawn of Lucifer and deserve nothing but your contempt (present readership excluded unless you are guilty of perpetrating this heinous crime against shipbuilding humanity - may God be merciful on your souls).
WOW! Not sure where that came from...
The most fore and aft shrouds are vulnerable to being pulled in toward the center. This looks bad and is hard to avoid. The sandpaper lined battens help, as does having a snug shroud (no, that is not code for something - and you are a sick puppy for wondering) but neither alone will prevent this from happening. You must notice that the outer shrouds are getting pulled in AS IT IS HAPPENING and take corrective action before running the next ratline otherwise you will 'institutionalize' your mistake and end up needing to go back and re-doing an entire side.
Take care along the way to keep all lines running at your preferred horizontal. It is easy to start tipping up or down.
Once you have completed all of the ratlines for a shroud set you are roughly 2/3rds the way done. Now, because you were so clever as to NOT HAVE GLUED ANYTHING in place, you have an opportunity to go back and clean things up. Even though you were doing your best work with each clove hitch trying to do everything just so - the lines above and below influence each another and you need to solve that problem. Some of the shrouds have been pulled too close - other ratlines are sagging too much.
Here is my approach to cleaning up...
Begin with the obvious problem areas. Just look at the whole thing in total and notice what needs to be corrected and adjust the big flaws before trying to get super detailed.
Once the big stuff has been dealt with then I chose to work from the bottom up and from the center out. So, on the lowest ratlines I started in the center and adjusted knots and shrouds so that the shroud was vertically straight and the ratline was level (or slightly drooped).
This is harder than it sounds because a clove hitch tightens on itself when you try to move anything laterally. My solution was to use my tweezers and slide the knot UP AND DOWN on the shroud to loosen the clove hitch. Sometimes just doing that allowed things to get better. Other times (after loosening the clove hitch) I would need to actively move either the shroud or the ratline. Oh, my ropes are poly and I have no idea if my approach works with other rope types.
Anyway, I worked from the center all the way to the left, fixing each shroud interval and ratline as needed - and then did the same from the center to the right. Having completed one line I still resisted the urge to glue anything in place - and went up a few more ratlines before going back and only gluing the ends (I used CA for this).
Eventually you will make your way through the entire shroud set and all of the ends have been glued. Now you can refine one more time if you have it in you but at some point it all becomes silly.
So, that is what I have learned thus far. If you have things you can add from your experience let 'er rip. It's not like this build log will get long or anything like that...
Working my way from the bottom up - center out:
View attachment 299116
Getting very close now:
View attachment 299118
Lower main finished on both sides:
View attachment 299119
View attachment 299120
See, I told you to just skip this post. That's 5 minutes of your life you will never get back
Warning: this post is only for someone who is interested in what I learned doing ratlines thus far. It will not be edifying (or even of passing interest) to anyone else. If you do not give a flyer about an amateur's perspective on the challenge of ratlining, I suggest you just skip it in the hope that I will post something worthwhile in the future. And that is what I have to say on that.
See, I told you to just skip this post. That's 5 minutes of your life you will never get back
. However, you probably saved me ten times that when I get to the ratline stage.Please just post pictures for Jim next timeToo much reading, I just skipped (as suggested)
Ok Paul, great reading, didn’t quite understand all of it, so read it again, same result, so read it again, same …….Too much reading, I just skipped (as suggested)
Yes. I too have noticed that @Jimsky is a bit of a voyeur. But in this case he and Stephan may have been the wisest ones in the bunch. Of course, neither of them needs to be 'schooled' by the likes of me - though I am fun to sit next to at the watch party...Please just post pictures for Jim next time
Yup. In some ways I like the 'stiffness' of the poly line because it does its best to hang straight. That's an asset until you want it to bend (like when making a rope coil). Remind me - did you bake your lines like I did? I am wondering if that is why it resists acting naturally like cotton line does??? The poly thread I use for seizing doesn't have any problem acting like cotton thread - only my made-up ropes.
I've been summoned!
I have never tried to bake or anneal my ropes. I actually make my own 3x3 tera 80 rope for use as seizing line and it is somewhat difficult, but I have become proficient doing it. It is interesting that poly line off the spool is much more pliable than when it's made into rope. Finding silk or cotton small enough as source thread to spin into something just under .5mm and be a 3x3 structure may not be possible. In my limited experiments with cotton, I found it is not strong enough to withstand the rope winding process and silk may be the same. I will just have to try the combos out.
Thank you Ben.
