• LUCZORAMA SHIPWRECK SCAVENGER HUNT GIVEAWAY. 4 Weeks of Fun • 1 Legendary Prize ((OcCre’s Fram Ship)) • Global Crew Welcome!
    **VIEW THREAD HERE**

Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]

dockattner said:
Summary:

Steef: Paul, you're a complete ninny. Those aren't backstays, they're halyards.
Kirill: Yup. They're halyards. What a ninny.
Paul: Well, then how do I do backstays.
Steef: Do them this way...
Kirill: No, do them this way...
Paul: That's the same way.
Kirill: Right, do them like Steef says.
Steef: Hold on, Kirill is right, do them like he says.
Paul: How about I do them like Fred Hocker says?
Steef and Kirill: That's what we said.
Paul: I don't think so...
Steef and Kirill: What a ninny.

I believe that pretty much covers it.
Click to expand...
That about covers it.. ROTF
 
kirill4 said:
:)))
Heinrich,
Please please don't start it again! :))) it was so much water about one line only ,but there are planty more could be discussed... and we already saw version without backstays , why can't see variation with them fitted? :)))
Paul,
I was laughing a lot reading that your "summary..." briliant !!! :)))
But what is your final desigion? to fitt them or omit them :)))
Click to expand...
I am waiting to see how/if Mr. Hocker answers a follow-up email... In the meantime, I'm working on a few items from my list of things I skipped but needed to get back to.
 
dockattner said:
Summary:

Steef: Paul, you're a complete ninny. Those aren't backstays, they're halyards.
Kirill: Yup. They're halyards. What a ninny.
Paul: Well, then how do I do backstays.
Steef: Do them this way...
Kirill: No, do them this way...
Paul: That's the same way.
Kirill: Right, do them like Steef says.
Steef: Hold on, Kirill is right, do them like he says.
Paul: How about I do them like Fred Hocker says?
Steef and Kirill: That's what we said.
Paul: I don't think so...
Steef and Kirill: What a ninny.

I believe that pretty much covers it.
Click to expand...
I need to lie down. I’m getting a headache
 
kirill4 said:
Paul,
Looks like that site with Sophia Amalia is not accessable any more, but a few years ago I ve saved some photo... model made on highest standart, and there are a lot of interesting which couldvbe studied, and I think usefull for Vasa modelling , including topmast backstays ! :)))
Click to expand...
Thank you, Kirill. I actually found another source apart from the one Daniel uncovered. I will certainly be spending some time looking at this beautiful model of a 1650 galleon.
 
JUST GREAT!!!
Thank You Very much!
There are much more details could be seen that on foto which I have... very interesting how they played with upper sails tie halliard! ...
Alternatevily if not strictly follow Vasa museum model rigging plan, than this version could be used! in some aspects such experiments will be very interesting , if someone will try to reproduce this version of rigging on galleon model!
Kurt,
Thanks again!
 
Last edited:
Wow, they are truly magnificent models (and at 1/30 scale!!). I note that the two sites are of different models of the same ship however (eg examine the horse and chariot at the front of the bowsprit, sails and no sails etc etc). The bulwark flank decorations are stunning.

The rigging too is especially well done (albeit at 1/30 scale) and while I agree with Paul that awaiting Fred Hocker's communication and comments will most likely direct how he rigs the backstays, from what I see, the Sophia Amalia has rigged backstays with support from the main stays centrally aligned, not secured to port and starboard (see below), at least from the mainmast topgallant. It's a little harder to see from the foremast topgallant because there appears to be at least two separate stays running forward from the foremast.

1652236833847.png

Nevertheless, a wonderful model and one not widely known, given its provenance and time.

Regards,

PeterG
 
PeterG said:
Wow, they are truly magnificent models (and at 1/30 scale!!). I note that the two sites are of different models of the same ship however (eg examine the horse and chariot at the front of the bowsprit, sails and no sails etc etc). The bulwark flank decorations are stunning.

The rigging too is especially well done (albeit at 1/30 scale) and while I agree with Paul that awaiting Fred Hocker's communication and comments will most likely direct how he rigs the backstays, from what I see, the Sophia Amalia has rigged backstays with support from the main stays centrally aligned, not secured to port and starboard (see below), at least from the mainmast topgallant. It's a little harder to see from the foremast topgallant because there appears to be at least two separate stays running forward from the foremast.

View attachment 307858

Nevertheless, a wonderful model and one not widely known, given its provenance and time.

Regards,

PeterG
Click to expand...
Good day,
Dear Peter,
You are too fast in making decision, top mast and top gallant masts backstays - there are different lines, which pendants more dark in color... and they went down to the chainplate\deck level,pls check foto more carefully...
You missed some lines and lead blocks of that tie halliards ...and while missfit drawing red lines You jamped from tie halliards lines to backstays lines when making color mark them...
but that lines which You marked" white" , they are still upper sails tie halliards, and they yes , partly secured to the stays by crowfeets...tie halliards ,in principal ,there are same arrangements as fermormed on Vasa museum model...
 
PeterG said:
Wow, they are truly magnificent models (and at 1/30 scale!!). I note that the two sites are of different models of the same ship however (eg examine the horse and chariot at the front of the bowsprit, sails and no sails etc etc). The bulwark flank decorations are stunning.

The rigging too is especially well done (albeit at 1/30 scale) and while I agree with Paul that awaiting Fred Hocker's communication and comments will most likely direct how he rigs the backstays, from what I see, the Sophia Amalia has rigged backstays with support from the main stays centrally aligned, not secured to port and starboard (see below), at least from the mainmast topgallant. It's a little harder to see from the foremast topgallant because there appears to be at least two separate stays running forward from the foremast.

View attachment 307858

Nevertheless, a wonderful model and one not widely known, given its provenance and time.

Regards,

PeterG
Click to expand...
I don't see those lines the same way either, Peter. Take a closer look at them again.
 
Kurt and Kirill4,

Thanks you for your constructive comments. While I can see what you are saying, the resolution of the images make it almost impossible to tell (maybe it's my poor computer monitor). I can only see three possible lines from the main topgallant (labelled 1, 2 or 3 below). Line 1 is the one I have thought was the backstay (as per the previous post).

1652244905225.png

Line 2 goes to a block, divides and then divides again at two second blocks (I think). It is really difficult to then see where it is belayed. These could be backstays I guess???

Line 3 continues I think to a block but then descends, I assume to deck level, but again the belaying point is not evident.

So, I am likely wrong, but I don't think we can see in the photos enough to confidently say how the backstays are configured or where they are belayed.

Regards,

PeterG.
 
1 and 3 - they are topgallant backstays,port and starbord, 2 - topgalland tie halliard -as You said ,this is devided into complex shape of leading blocks and crowsfeet and final fall goes somewhere to the mast base... more clearly could be seen on fore mast
Oh! not exactly the same as on main mast on the fore mast they did topgallant tie halliard a little bit different! :)))
possible arrangement in my interpretation

Model of Sophia Amalia 1650 27 top gallant tie halliard.jpg
 
Last edited:
My dearest Paul. I do not see your problem. You just have to follow the rigging of a Spanish galleon, a Danish warship built almost 30 years later a British-based book of Anderson and the advice of pre-selected, professional modelers and BINGO! You will have all the answers as to how the Swedish Vasa was rigged. Makes sense doesn't it! :)
 
Heinrich said:
My dearest Paul. I do not see your problem. You just have to follow the rigging of a Spanish galleon, a Danish warship built almost 30 years later a British-based book of Anderson and the advice of pre-selected, professional modelers and BINGO! You will have all the answers as to how the Swedish Vasa was rigged. Makes sense doesn't it! :)
Click to expand...
These all just modern speculations ...
just modern interpretations / and as they are modern , in this case there couldn't be questions, because all clear... from the books and models which are rigged based on information from the books ...
funny things , all these versions still don't give answers how exactly Vasa was rigged, but if vew them as just approximations, Paul could make your own choice,how to rigg his model...
As I remember ,Paul began talking about possibilities to rigg back stays on the Vasa model? based on information provided by Fred Hocker...
both models of Sophia Amalia 1650(have no idea why modellers used late16 th rigging style for the vessel of the middle of 17th??? but OK) ,were rigged in old fashion style, exactly in the same style as Vasa museum model was rigged...
thats why Sophia Amalia models rigging could be discussed here and used as good professional made examples,
and besides they are equipped with backstays :) and we could see how they were rigged on the model...
 
Heinrich said:
My dearest Paul. I do not see your problem. You just have to follow the rigging of a Spanish galleon, a Danish warship built almost 30 years later a British-based book of Anderson and the advice of pre-selected, professional modelers and BINGO! You will have all the answers as to how the Swedish Vasa was rigged. Makes sense doesn't it! :)
Click to expand...
I've never loved you more Heinrich ROTF.

Sadly, it seems Mr. Hocker (understandably) is unwilling to add any additional information at this time. He has been immensely helpful to me in the past, so I don't feel slighted in any way. I suspect my questions are so artlessly formed that it has become clear to him that I am a hopeless cause ;). Backstays are forthcoming. I'll be doing them precisely as I have been taught ROTF.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top