messenger cable

  • Thread starter Thread starter Uwek
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I love this way of the messenger @modelshipbuilder65 made on his Royal Caroline in sacle 1:30

1/30 HMS Royal Caroline Build

I highly recommend this book because it has multiple drawings & information from actual sailors. A gold mine of information!!!! THANK YOU!!! I have this book, but have failed to use it very often as it is from the 19th century and I usually work with earlier period ships. Still, this book...
shipsofscale.com
 
i believe its rope too.

someone posted "how anchors are brought up" with some jaw dropping details and documentation of the entire processs. i think i saved it and will post the link.

here ya go... enjoy

Bring Up the Anchor on a Ship of the Line

Interesting nice video with detailed explanations: A coloured schematic diagram on two joined sheets showing the inboard operations involved in hoisting anchor and stowing the cable on a British warship. It probably dates to the 1790s based on the dress of the Marines being used, as...
shipsofscale.com
 
paul ron said:
someone posted "how anchors are brought up" .....
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Time is running - yes I posted it once - I forgot about it

So it was a "normal" rope and definitely no cable - interesting that it is called everywhere "messenger cable"

Dubz Modelling World said:
It's hawser rope.
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so a "normal" 3-strands right-handed rope rope

Once I made a screen shot of a video showing in the dark the anchor cable and the messenger of the HMS Victory

Screenshot 2024-07-16 150433.png
 
hahahaha yes it was you that posted that fact packed thread... i booked marked it because it was so informative. i also sent it to a few friends, not modelers but know it alls, that loved it.
 
From James Lees Masting and Rigging his drawing shows cable laid rope for the anchor cable but does not show the lay of the messenger. I imagine cable laid rope for the messenger would also be appropriate as you show in post #5
Allan
 
Both the anchor cable and messenger are cable laid rope. From David Steel - cables are ropes made of nine strands that are nine inches and upwards in circumference. Cablets are cable-laid ropes, under nine inches in circumference. From James Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War page 188, for the sheet and bower anchors the circumference of the cable is 0.62 X the diameter of the main mast. The circumference of the messenger is 0.75 X the circumference of the main stay. Hope this helps.
Allan
 
Many Thanks for your assistance and the given information
and how a cablet is looking like?

When I read:

Cablets are cable-laid ropes, under nine inches in circumference

it means, that it is cable laid, but only smaller in diameter - but than it would look like the anchor cable only smaller in diameter

and the photo of the Victory messenger shows a cable which is preserved with parceling?

Screenshot 2023-01-19 104234.png
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Uwek said:
Hallo all - I have a question where I am not 100% sure.

I want to install on my Granado a messenger cable to lift the anchor

Is a "messenger" a cable or a rope?
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Technically, I think the Granado should have a Viol cable, not a Messenger cable. I posted this in your excellent informational thread concerning the Granado HERE. I had posted this in your excellent reference topic on the Granado:
1722699237531.png
As to the answer to your question, I am assuming it is a rope. That does pose the question, however: why is the Viol or Messenger cable not as strong as the Anchor cable?
 
Signet said:
Technically, I think the Granado should have a Viol cable, not a Messenger cable. I posted this in your excellent informational thread concerning the Granado HERE. I had posted this in your excellent reference topic on the Granado:
View attachment 462611
As to the answer to your question, I am assuming it is a rope. That does pose the question, however: why is the Viol or Messenger cable not as strong as the Anchor cable?
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Yes you are correct with the correct term "viol" and not messenger
The princip is more or less the same, only that the cable is redirected via this viol-block

I made some photos of the Goodwin book, which is showing in some details the model build by Lightley

The viol blocks fixed at the mortar house
IMG_5381a.jpg

The two viol cables are running through these blocks

IMG_5382a.jpg

the anchor cables (blue arrows) are going over the capstan windlass, going down via the main hatch into the hold
the viol cables (green arrows) are turned three or four times around the capstan windlass

IMG_5386a.jpg

IMG_5388a.jpg

And both viol cables are connected with its anchor cable via the nippers
-> so it seems, that in moment, based by this arrangement, both anchors are lifted

So far everything understood ( I think)

But this is not fitting to the anchor arrangement, or?

IMG_2435.jpg

Unfortunately Goodwin is not showing or describing anything related to this in his anatomy book

I am thinking in moment:

1) How would be the cable arrangement during achorage ?
I guess without the viol-cable and the anchor cable somehow arround a main bitt and fixed with some nippers towards the deck (eyebolts) or something similar
2) During the lifting action I guess like shown in the Lightley model
3) stored anchor during sailing ?

Not so easy when you do not have a "normal" ship .........
 
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Uwek said:
But this is not fitting to the anchor arrangement, or?

View attachment 464676
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what in the above photo is not consistent with the viol-cable system.
Uwek said:
Unfortunately Goodwin is not showing or describing anything related to this in his anatomy book

I am thinking in moment:

1) How would be the cable arrangement during achorage ?
I guess without the viol-cable and the anchor cable somehow arround a main bitt and fixed with some nippers towards the deck (eyebolts) or something similar
Click to expand...
That is what I would assume as well.
Uwek said:
2) During the lifting action I guess like shown in the Lightley model
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Yes, I think.
Uwek said:
3) stored anchor during sailing ?
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I would expect the anchor cable still to be around the main bitt, in case it broke loose during a storm or something. Probably one or more nippers to eyebolts as well, in preparation for lowering it.
Uwek said:
Not so easy when you do not have a "normal" ship .........
Click to expand...
Very true, and the Granado is anything but "normal". I've always wondered about the rope attached to the anchor buoy. Most models I've seen show very little rope coiled between the buoy and the anchor. Yet would it not need sufficient rope for use when the anchor cable is fully extended to its length of 120 fathoms? Current boating anchor standards recommend an anchor scope of 7:1, which means an anchor cable length of 7 times the water depth. But that would still mean an anchor buoy rope approaching 100 feet in length (2 actual feet on our model). That's a lot of rope to coil up! Perhaps they kept the rope short, and added to it if necessary?
 
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