HMS Victory [1805] 1:79 by serikoff. Started with Mantua -> Upgraded with John McKay's Anatomy.

AllanKP69 · Sunday at 7:46 PM

iutar said:
Copper was laid from the stern to the bow (you remember that) and from the waterline to the keel

Thanks for your post Iutar. You are correct and this has been discussed a few times lately here at SoS. Your photos are more pieces of evidence that this is how it was done. From the build logs it seems more than half the hulls are incorrectly coppered from the keel up instead of how it was done on a real ship, from the water line down, for the reasons you explained very clearly.
Allan

AnobiumPunctatum · Sunday at 10:52 PM

Frank48 said:
excuse me , do you have any source information regarding coppered hull protection? Thank you , Frank

Sorry, I do not have primary sources, but found a lot of different information in my books. I don’t copper my models because I like to show the frames, so I didn’t any further research for this.

Frank48 · Monday at 12:40 AM

AnobiumPunctatum said:
Sorry, I do not have primary sources, but found a lot of different information in my books. I don’t copper my models because I like to show the frames, so I didn’t any further research for this.

Thank you for your reply.Frank

Frank48 · Monday at 12:45 AM

serikoff said:
I think for my needs the information that is available is enough. I am not making a model for a competition, museum or exhibition. For my modest needs the anatomy of my ship is enough and also the anatomy of similar ships...

... but I also join the question, since it is still interesting to know the different options.

my question is to ask if you have more any information about it.Thank you for answering me.Frank

Dubz Modelling World · Monday at 1:46 AM

For protecting the hull use zapon lacquer.

cheers

Dirk

iutar · Monday at 2:05 AM

AllanKP69 said:
from the water line down

Allan, good afternoon!
This was done in other countries as well.
The Americans in their young fleet did the same as the British once did:
There is even an old painting that everyone has seen and knows, but no one looked closely at. Craftsmen install copper sheets from the waterline to the keel, that is, from top to bottom.

The French also installed copper sheets according to the same principles as the British.

This is what they did in Russia:

In modern times, despite various options, the basic scheme has not changed for centuries:

image.png.2250d1ff1296aff36af3b353814ef356.png

iutar · Monday at 2:13 AM

It is impossible to escape copper oxidation on the model. Even under tsapon varnish, copper will oxidize over time. But oxidation can be made advantageous and beautiful using bitumen varnish.

AllanKP69 · Monday at 5:21 AM

AnobiumPunctatum said:
I don’t copper my models because I like to show the frames,

I am in agreement with you regarding coppering. It is not so much the work that is required, but I personally am not fond of the look. Open framing or planked I hope I will not be building another model of a ship from 1780's and beyond unless the client requires such.
Allan

serikoff · Monday at 10:08 AM

AllanKP69 said:
Thanks for your post Iutar. You are correct and this has been discussed a few times lately here at SoS. Your photos are more pieces of evidence that this is how it was done. From the build logs it seems more than half the hulls are incorrectly coppered from the keel up instead of how it was done on a real ship, from the water line down, for the reasons you explained very clearly.
Allan

I cover from the bottom up because it simplifies the task and to achieve horizontal correct lines. Imitation of nails is done by the drawing on the copper facing. And since I glue in a butt and not in an overlap, then it makes no difference how the copper is glued, the correctness of gluing in this case will be shown by the drawing of the nails. But if you glue in an overlap, then there are no options, only in the right way. I wrote about this at the very beginning.

serikoff · 2024-12-18T11:26:18-0600

Copper... and ones more copper.

With experience, the work is progressing faster. The same routine continues: rough sanding on the inside, polishing to a shine on the outside, cutting into strips, taping them with scotch tape, and then fixing them in place.

To press the copper strip against the hull while the glue sets, I came up with this tool. It’s made from air-drying plasticine (available in toy stores). I rolled it into a “sausage” and pressed one side flat against the table to create a flat surface. After it hardened, I applied tape to the flat side to prevent glue from sticking to the plasticine.

On the other side, I made indentations for my fingertips to better grip and stabilize the tool when pressing the copper strip down.

This way, I apply even pressure across the entire surface, not just at the points where my fingers touch. I replace the tape occasionally when it accumulates too much glue.
I’m working symmetrically and alternately. First, I glued half of a sheet on one side of the hull, and now I’m applying the other half to the opposite side. So far, I’ve used one of the six sheets of copper plating. The downside is that every sheet has defects. One strip not only lacks the row of nail details but is also wider than the others. Because of this, I set aside one defective and one normal strip (from the other side) to use later for the triangular sections.

I really hope the six sheets will be enough for the entire hull.
I also wanted to demonstrate the correct alignment of the nail pattern and reiterate that if plating overlaps, you should start at the stern and work downward toward forward the keel. However, if the plating is applied edge-to-edge, the nail pattern alone determines the proper orientation, meaning you can start from anywhere as long as the nail pattern aligns correctly. Starting from the keel is simply more convenient for maintaining horizontal lines.

Another time-consuming part is cleaning the edges of each copper strip after it’s glued, to ensure the next strip fits seamlessly edge-to-edge. The glue seeps out from under the copper when I press it down, and I have to remove the excess with a scalpel. Some of the glue, stained with paint, also seeps through the seams, but this will be cleaned up after the tape is removed and the final polishing is done.

So, 1/6 is complete...

...and there are five more rounds of this dance to go. But for now, this is the easy part. Things will get more interesting when I start dealing with wedges and triangular sections!

P.S. A big thank you to everyone who has shown such great interest and attention to my build, as well as for all the numerous likes from you!!!

...

dockattner · 2024-12-18T12:22:42-0600

serikoff said:
Copper... and ones more copper.

With experience, the work is progressing faster. The same routine continues: rough sanding on the inside, polishing to a shine on the outside, cutting into strips, taping them with scotch tape, and then fixing them in place.

View attachment 490432

To press the copper strip against the hull while the glue sets, I came up with this tool. It’s made from air-drying plasticine (available in toy stores). I rolled it into a “sausage” and pressed one side flat against the table to create a flat surface. After it hardened, I applied tape to the flat side to prevent glue from sticking to the plasticine.

View attachment 490436

On the other side, I made indentations for my fingertips to better grip and stabilize the tool when pressing the copper strip down.

View attachment 490437

This way, I apply even pressure across the entire surface, not just at the points where my fingers touch. I replace the tape occasionally when it accumulates too much glue.
I’m working symmetrically and alternately. First, I glued half of a sheet on one side of the hull, and now I’m applying the other half to the opposite side. So far, I’ve used one of the six sheets of copper plating. The downside is that every sheet has defects. One strip not only lacks the row of nail details but is also wider than the others. Because of this, I set aside one defective and one normal strip (from the other side) to use later for the triangular sections.

View attachment 490438

I really hope the six sheets will be enough for the entire hull.
I also wanted to demonstrate the correct alignment of the nail pattern and reiterate that if plating overlaps, you should start at the stern and work downward toward forward the keel. However, if the plating is applied edge-to-edge, the nail pattern alone determines the proper orientation, meaning you can start from anywhere as long as the nail pattern aligns correctly. Starting from the keel is simply more convenient for maintaining horizontal lines.

View attachment 490439

Another time-consuming part is cleaning the edges of each copper strip after it’s glued, to ensure the next strip fits seamlessly edge-to-edge. The glue seeps out from under the copper when I press it down, and I have to remove the excess with a scalpel. Some of the glue, stained with paint, also seeps through the seams, but this will be cleaned up after the tape is removed and the final polishing is done.

View attachment 490440

So, 1/6 is complete...

View attachment 490441

...and there are five more rounds of this dance to go. But for now, this is the easy part. Things will get more interesting when I start dealing with wedges and triangular sections!

P.S. A big thank you to everyone who has shown such great interest and attention to my build, as well as for all the numerous likes from you!!!

...

Very nice progress, Sergey! Copper hulls aren't my thing, but I would affirm that for this ship it must be done. Not overlapping the plates has done a nice job preserving scale. Bravo!

serikoff · 2024-12-18T12:27:53-0600

dockattner said:
Very nice progress, Sergey! Copper hulls aren't my thing, but I would affirm that for this ship it must be done. Not overlapping the plates has done a nice job preserving scale. Bravo!

I then tried it on a sample, it was possible to do it with an overlap, but I can imagine how difficult and longer it is. That's why I'm glad that I started doing edge to edge. One thing I'm worried about is that the surface is smooth, otherwise, if it's bumpy, then I'll definitely have to patinated it in any way.