Clipper Ship Build Thoughts

I'll try to share what's useful. Right now, that is to stay away from the existing offerings for plans until all the facts are in., then modify them accordingly. Rich "CipperFan" Jones seems to be filling that gap nicely of late and it shouldn't be too long before there is enough useful information to proceed with your project without walking into the minefield of inaccuracies, I currently find myself meandering through.
I should have a nice model by the time I'm through. But I am afraid it will have to join the long list of Flying Cloud models that fall short of the mark of what most accurately represents that ship.
Hopefully my build log can still provide you with some useful ideas and techniques. I've tried to document as much as possible with process pictures that I hope are self-explanatory. Most of all, don't be afraid to re-visit things that you don't find satisfactory and redo them if necessary. Right now, that's the issue of my capstans being out of scale. I spent a lot of time finding nice wooden ones and modifying two of those into double action models, only to have to accept the fact that they were out of scale and had to go.
Because of the fact that the Mamoli kit had prepositioned the holes for the masts at improper distances, and I have already set up my channels and deadeye arrangement accordingly, I am still stuck with having to tweak everything in between to get it to fit properly, or at least believably. Please feel free to ask if you think of anything specific.

Pete
 
Peter Gutterman said:
I'll try to share what's useful. Right now, that is to stay away from the existing offerings for plans until all the facts are in., then modify them accordingly. Rich "CipperFan" Jones seems to be filling that gap nicely of late and it shouldn't be too long before there is enough useful information to proceed with your project without walking into the minefield of inaccuracies, I currently find myself meandering through.
I should have a nice model by the time I'm through. But I am afraid it will have to join the long list of Flying Cloud models that fall short of the mark of what most accurately represents that ship.
Hopefully my build log can still provide you with some useful ideas and techniques. I've tried to document as much as possible with process pictures that I hope are self-explanatory. Most of all, don't be afraid to re-visit things that you don't find satisfactory and redo them if necessary. Right now, that's the issue of my capstans being out of scale. I spent a lot of time finding nice wooden ones and modifying two of those into double action models, only to have to accept the fact that they were out of scale and had to go.
Because of the fact that the Mamoli kit had prepositioned the holes for the masts at improper distances, and I have already set up my channels and deadeye arrangement accordingly, I am still stuck with having to tweak everything in between to get it to fit properly, or at least believably. Please feel free to ask if you think of anything specific.

Pete
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Pete,
In the case of correct mast spacing, at 1:96th scale the distances aren't much at all. Locating correct mast placements will go a long way to alleviate annoying spacing issues. To get truly accurate measurements, if you have existing plans, find the main deck level. On the Boucher internal bulkhead sheer profile, find where the deck meets the stem. It's just behind the angel's base. Measure 52' from the stem and that's the correct foremast center placement. Distance between old location and new one would be consistent in relocating main and mizzen masts too. You most likely wouldn't have to relocate all of your shroud chains, possibly just a few. Meanwhile, there's no need to stress out if this is too much. You're still constructing a beautiful vessel.
 
WilliamM said:
I am most interested in any information that you can share! While I have faith in my modelling skills, I can never know too much.

Bill
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WilliamM:
I've been happily sharing our latest Flying Cloud discoveries with Peter, including my concept sketches of historically accurate navel hoods, cutwater and trumpet bearing winged angel. Building a 1:96th scale replica, the figurehead would be about an inch long. Most recently, we come to the realization that, since her forecastle was set up to accomodate one watch of her crew, it's likely her straight focstle 5' high bulkhead would be similar to Stag Hound and which both had crew accomodations 3' below the main deck. In addition, her windlass would also be mounted below. From a modeler's viewpoint that eliminates the need to include a windlass as it's out of sight. It appears to me, as Rob and I uncover more discrepencies between the authentic ship as described in great detail by Duncan McLean in the Boston Daily Atlas and commercial plans that they just didn't have access to the wealth of information we have today. "Measure twice, cut once." In model building, I belive that means be sure you've been thorough in your research.
 
I've enjoyed the information and documentation that you and Peter have shared! I really appreciate your efforts! Be aware that, although I have modelled warships for decades, Clippers are new to me. I want to do them justice, so I will gladly take any information I can get.

Bill
 
ClipperFan said:
Pete,
In the case of correct mast spacing, at 1:96th scale the distances aren't much at all. Locating correct mast placements will go a long way to alleviate annoying spacing issues. To get truly accurate measurements, if you have existing plans, find the main deck level. On the Boucher internal bulkhead sheer profile, find where the deck meets the stem. It's just behind the angel's base. Measure 52' from the stem and that's the correct foremast center placement. Distance between old location and new one would be consistent in relocating main and mizzen masts too. You most likely wouldn't have to relocate all of your shroud chains, possibly just a few. Meanwhile, there's no need to stress out if this is too much. You're still constructing a beautiful vessel.
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Thanks. And thanks for the compliment. I'm taking a little breathing room break in order to take a step back, use this useful information, see what's doable or if any alterations are indeed necessary, determine the next step, or series of steps and proceed from there. I keep forgetting that, with this craft at least. nothing good gets done in a hurry. Thumbsup ;)
I plan to live with my forecastle arrangement as is. Incorrect in light of the latest revelations, but too set in stone for me to take apart and redo on this model. And I'm way past wanting to start over. I'm literally running out of time for that. I look forward to what the two Williams and perhaps some others come up with in the future in light of the current revelations concerning McKay's master pieces. Fodder, perhaps for the Nautical Research Journal. or even a Sea Watch Book.

Pete
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Thanks. And thanks for the compliment. I'm taking a little breathing room break in order to take a step back, use this useful information, see what's doable or if any alterations are indeed necessary, determine the next step, or series of steps and proceed from there. I keep forgetting that, with this craft at least. nothing good gets done in a hurry. Thumbsup ;)
I plan to live with my forecastle arrangement as is. Incorrect in light of the latest revelations, but too set in stone for me to take apart and redo on this model. And I'm way past wanting to start over. I'm literally running out of time for that. I look forward to what the two Williams and perhaps some others come up with in the future in light of the current revelations concerning McKay's master pieces. Fodder, perhaps for the Nautical Research more Journal. or even a Sea Watch Book.

Pete
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Pete,
I feel bad for causing you so much consternation. To reassure you, until someone else is able to fully incorporate the unique McKay bow entirely, you still have the nicest clipper profile on this vessel. We also seem to be uncovering more surprising abberations on an increasingly accellerated basis. I attribute that to Rob and my separate decades long intense investigations into Glory of the Seas which culminated in directly involving triple author Michael Mjelde in our reconstructive investigation. While you're clearly frustrated with the current state of your model build, I have a suggestion to uplift your spirits. Go to Model Ship World, select scratch builds from 1851-1900 and look at both Rob Wiederrich's and Vladimir Wairoa's Glory of the Seas build logs. There you will find a treasure trove of ultra rare contemporary photos of Donald McKay's final, longest lived clipper ships. Many images have never been seen before.
As for your suggestion that I submit an article on these latest discoveries, I'm pressed to finish article II on rigging and finishing Glory of the Seas first. After that, I will most likely follow up with our Stag Hound builds. You're also not the only one to bring up the topic of writing a Seawatch book, so I'm considering how to go about that too. Interestingly, next year 2025 just happens to be the 175th Anniversary of the December 7th, 1850 launch of McKay's first clipper Stag Hound. So next year might just be the right time to publish a book.
 
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WilliamM said:
I've enjoyed the information and documentation that you and Peter have shared! I really appreciate your efforts! Be aware that, although I have modelled warships for decades, Clippers are new to me. I want to do them justice, so I will gladly take any information I can get.

Bill
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WilliamM:
I just suggested to Pete and I'm repeating it for you too. Go to Model Ship World, forums, member builds, scratch builds 1851-1900. There you will find Rob Wiederrich's and Vladimir Wairoa's Glory of the Seas builds. For 2 maybe 3 years we did the most intensive, exhaustive investigation into McKay's final longest lived clipper ships. Author Michael Mjelde became personally involved and generously supplied us with many contemporary photos of her. Some never seen before. He has been studying her for over six decades and has written 3 books on this fascinating, beautiful vessel.
As for Flying Cloud if you want to create the most scale accurate replica of this most famous McKay extreme clipper, I will help you in any way I can.
 
ClipperFan said:
WilliamM:
I just suggested to Pete and I'm repeating it for you too. Go to Model Ship World, forums, member builds, scratch builds 1851-1900. There you will find Rob Wiederrich's and Vladimir Wairoa's Glory of the Seas builds. For 2 maybe 3 years we did the most intensive, exhaustive investigation into McKay's final longest lived clipper ships. Author Michael Mjelde became personally involved and generously supplied us with many contemporary photos of her. Some never seen before. He has been studying her for over six decades and has written 3 books on this fascinating, beautiful vessel.
As for Flying Cloud if you want to create the most scale accurate replica of this most famous McKay extreme clipper, I will help you in any way I can.
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I am very interested in Rob's work. I have followed him for years. Yes, his Glory of the Seas is spectacular! And so, I strive to meet his standards in every build. Hence, I will gratefully accept any information on the Flying Cloud that I can get. Thank you!

Bill
 
WilliamM said:
I am very interested in Rob's work. I have followed him for years. Yes, his Glory of the Seas is spectacular! And so, I strive to meet his standards in every build. Hence, I will gratefully accept any information on the Flying Cloud that I can get. Thank you!

Bill
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Bill,
For Stag Hound Duncan McLean listed precise distances for all masts. Since Flying Cloud had an overall deck length that was 225' (10 feet longer than Stag Hound deck length of 215') I used ratios of the former to determine mast spacing on the latter. (See post #59 for exact ratios) All measurements are on main deck. Here's the results:

Stag Hound
Spacing listed in the Boston Daily Atlas

50' stem to foremast center
67' foremast to mainmast center
56' mainmast to mizzenmast center
42' mizzenmast to sternpost

Flying Cloud
Using Stag Hound mast to deck ratios

52' stem to foremast center
70' foremast to mainmast center
59' mainmast to mizzenmast center
44' mizzenmast to sternpost
 
Bill-R
HAPPY 45TH ANNIVERSARY!!! Achieving such a milestone is a tribute to your enduring love for eachother. Have a lovely, marvelous holiday.
I'm a huge fan of the sole surviving composite Scottish Tea Clipper Cutty Sark. While Donald McKay, another Scottsman who fortunately immigrated to America is my all-time favorite, sadly none of his magnificent vessels remain. I wish they had. Anyhow, the sleek lines of Cutty Sark survive today to remind us of the incredibly great days of sail.
 
Please let me add my own congratulations as well! My wife and I made it to 45 last May. She's the best bit of good Providence and represents the best decision I ever made.
Somehow, miraculously I managed not to screw it up. :rolleyes:
Have a wonderful time and post lots of pictures!
 
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Thank you, Shota. I'll show this to her. It will make her very happy. My chief aim in life in gratitude for 45 years of happiness.:)Exclamation-Mark
and to Bill. Ain't it grand to be married to a woman who supports our art Exclamation-MarkIt's a rare and beautiful thing.Thumbsup:D
 
Hello everyone,

Doing some more research on the Flying Cloud. Looking at the deck furniture, information always shows parts being painted blue. Does anyone know what shade blue it is. Looking at historical paint colors, the shade of blue that is presented appears, to me, to be too bright for that time period. What are your thoughts?

Bill
 
I usually mix more gray into my blue. Scott Bradner and Ed Tosti both went with a much more saturated blue. Even toning it down to the gray side, the blue on my Flying Cloud still feels a little bright to me as well. I still have time to change it. I have no idea what made Bradner and Tosti choose the color they did. McClean describes the bulwarks and "inside" color as pearl. Whatever that was. I mixed Martha Stewart "Lake Fog" light gray and "porcelin" white. I dont recall seeing any reference to the blue for the cabin roof. I am sure I will be enlightened. :rolleyes:
 
Gongrats to both Peter and Bill. A true milestone. A true testament to your enduring and faithful love for the woman you chose to live life with.

I'm going on my 40th this month myself...and as you both attested too, my wife too, supports my hobbies. Far more then I deserve...since my house's decor is more of that of a museum, then the simplicity of a day to day functioning home.
I have three large models in my library and Glory of the Seas at its entrance. Now I'll have to find room for the Staghound.

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