HMS AGAMEMNON 1781 from scratch - scale 1/75

[William1961]

..

 

[iutar]

Also, let's look at the prototype.
In the Battle of the Saints, April 12, 1782, the ship Agamemnon has no covers on her hammock nets. And no other English ship has covers on her nets. The hammock nets are brown (compare with the white parts of the side and stern and the hammock net of the ship Duke)
In the Battle of the Nile, 1798, the ship Agamemnon has black covers on the hammock nets.

 

[William1961]

thank you Igor, very interresting.
My next question now is :
Do I really need to provide these hammock nets on the railings / balustrades ? Lot of models doesn't have that. For exemple the very beautiful model of the HMS Vanguard by your compatriot Winter. Our models are very similar and ships built at the same period.
I am not going to modify my current "open" railings in "solid" railings.
I admit to being a little confused with that.
I will read your answer with interest

 

[AllanKP69]

Do I really need to provide these hammock nets on the railings

Most contemporary models do not show the hammock cranes so you would be in good company if you leave them off. They were definitely used for a long time on the actual ships. If you trust the information in Goodwin's book The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War page 211 the following may give some help.

Hammock Cranes
These first appeared around 1710, and were mainly fitted on smaller ships such as frigates and sloops. Their use being limited to the quarterdeck and forecastle. The stanchions, made from wrought iron, took the form of U-shaped brackets with a single spike at the base, set down into the planksheer. These cranes were then covered with a tarred canvas screen. An example of the form can be seen on the model of a 60 gun ship hull in the Establishment of 1710 in the Science Museum in South Kensington.

Over the next 30 years the employment of hammock cranes became fashionable, and they were used extensively on upper decks, including the poop decks of the larger vessels. Finally in 1746 the Navy Board recognized the advantages of this practice, and submitted a letter of authorization to the Admiralty on 26 September stating that they were to be fitted on all ships. Within ten years this arrangement had become universal throughout the Fleet.

By 1771 the design was altered becoming more square in shape with an additional tie bar set between the heads at each upright. This type can be see on board the Victory. This form is illustrated in Figures 8/7 2 and 3. (See below). Another alteration was the introduction of netting suspended between the inner and out stanchions. This proved more practical. The netting used had 4" to 6" holes. Canvas covers were still used but t was found that during hot weather the tar stained the hammocks. This was eliminated by a Navy Board order of 1780, that the covering clothes were to be painted either white or yellow.

In reading this, it sounds like the netting was not used until after 1771. IF that was the case, even with the normal spacing of 18" to 24" between the cranes what kept the hammocks secured inside the cranes? I am guessing they were merely tied to the cranes, but would love to learn more about this. With netting coming into use the spacing between the cranes could be much more and thus fewer required.

Allan

 

[William1961]

Thank you Allan,
I have read this page 3 times and I still can't make a choice .
Building from scratch is definitely not an easy thing....
I am going to ask Winter why this choice on his model ans let you know
William

 

[iutar]

Do I really need to provide these hammock nets on the railings / balustrades ?

In all cases, yes. The point is that hammocks laid in nets were intended to protect against enemy fire. The hammocks provided excellent protection from rifle and pistol bullets, and also prevented the enemy from aiming. Hammock nets were always installed on the forecastle and quarterdeck to protect the gun crews. Nets were also installed on the poop-deck to protect officers. In addition, nets were always placed on the waist to protect people moving along the bridges.
In old paintings, you can always tell a merchant ship from a warship. The warship has hammock nets.

What was the advantage of hammock nets? They allowed for a lower bulwark, thereby reducing parasitic windage. The parasitic windage of high bulwarks impaired the seaworthiness of ships. In fact, hammock nets filled with hammocks were only most effective during combat. In normal times, the hammocks were removed from the nets, and the ship's bulwarks seemed to decrease in height, making the ship more resistant to the wind.
That's why nets were nets—to let the wind pass through them. Until the mid-18th century, painted cloth (usually red with a white stripe) was used instead of nets. The cloth was removed when a crosswind struck. But then they started to put up nets because it was easier and there was no need to constantly remove the fabric.

 

[AllanKP69]

Building from scratch is definitely not an easy thing....

IF you want a model of a ship that has not been done thousands of times like Victory and others, scratch is the only way to go. It is worth it to many to be able to do something that is somewhat unique. This does not necessarily make it a better thing, just different.
Allan

 

[AllanKP69]

In all cases, yes.

What are the ships/years in the photos in post #126 above?

So are you saying every ship (all cases) had cranes and nets and that some of the information regarding when they came into use as researched by Goodwin is wrong?

Allan

 

[iutar]

What are the ships/years in the photos in post #126 above?

All the ships are British, and all are from the period we need. All the models are original and are kept in the Greenwich collection. I never show pictures that are not relevant to the subject at hand.

So are you saying every ship (all cases) had cranes and nets and that some of the information regarding when they came into use as researched by Goodwin is wrong?

I don't see any contradictions between my text and Mr. Goodwin's. I also haven't noticed any errors in this part of the book. Please point them out.

"In all cases, yes." - This is the answer to William's question about which of the listed locations the element in question should be placed in. "In all the listed locations on the ship."

 

[William1961]

Thank you all for responding quickly to my question. And thank you Iutar for the very clear photos and the time you spend answering us.
What is the name of the second ship ? (first picture seems to be hms Victory in his orginal shape) Very beautyfull hull. This give me ideas for a future project .
Thank you Allan for your encouragement in projects from scratch. You are right, this gives more freedom in the choice of models and scale.

I started yesterday with the nets on quarter deck. Very difficult to realize because the presence of schrouds, small and fragile cranes but I'm rather proud of the result. Cranes are 6 mm high.
Iutar, I adapted the color of the lanyards to black, but don't be upset to me if I keep the nets brown/natural because aesthetically it gives a much nicer effect than black, .
William

 

[Winter]

black, .

I understand that the grids shouldn't be black, but rather the color of the hemp rope should be a dark beige.

 

[iutar]

What is the name of the second ship ? (first picture seems to be hms Victory in his orginal shape) Very beautyfull hull.

Yes, this is the very same Victory model, created under the meticulous supervision of Sir Thomas Slade himself! This model is a benchmark! The second frigate is also famous, a hero of the war against the Americans, the frigate Amazon. This model is built according to all Admiralty regulations, and its hammock nets are worthy of respect.

Pictured below, this model is considered a unique work of art and has historical value because it was made in the workshop of Sir Thomas Slade himself, under his supervision. I wish you, dear William, a pleasant contemplation of such a beautiful and perfect model. It's simply magical!

 

[iutar]

I understand that the grids shouldn't be black, but rather the color of the hemp rope should be a dark beige.

Andrey, the St. Petersburg Naval Museum has unique examples of hemp ropes of the highest quality, which the Russian Empire supplied to Great Britain throughout the 18th century. The entire British navy used only Russian hemp, as it was the highest quality.