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HMS Agamemnon by Caldercraft

I speak both, French is my mother language. I lived in Overijse during 20 years
Hello,

Have already important question: I soon start the second planking.
The first planking is mentioning to border the gunports.
But question see drawing please : borders of the gunports from the Main Gun Deck must stay visible (off course).
But what with the Gun Ports on the higher Gun Deck?

Marc


1755794043521.png
 
I'm asking this question because the Agamemnon is a ship of the line and may have been built (eg the sheaves or other upcoming details) differently than a frigate like the Diana.
Totally understood Marc :)

After more digging actually a hole, a port (in the waist where there were no lids) or sheaves were used at various point in time for the main tack. On English two deckers and smaller, before 1656, the main sail tacks did lead through a hole in the side of the ship on the upper deck and belayed to a cleat inboard on the bulwarks but this was well before Agamemnon was built. After that chess trees were added to the hull. The tack lead through a hole in the chess tree/fender then through a gun port or a sheave in the hull.

The sheets altered very little during the sail era always running through sheaves in the side of the hull.

From Steel, the diameter of the sheaves was about 12" and they were about 3" thick.

Allan

Examples
1755799689740.jpeg
1755799872310.jpeg

The model below is a 64 gun from 1775 at RMG. Some of the sheaves are clearly shown forward of the fenders
1755800434182.png
 
But question see drawing please : borders of the gunports from the Main Gun Deck must stay visible (off course).
But what with the Gun Ports on the higher Gun Deck?

I am not sure I understand what they mean. The only thing you can see inside the gun ports on any deck are the outboard edges of the stops/linings on the sides and the bottom. The lining was only about 1.5" thick. The planking covers the frames and sills which make up the boarders of the ports so they cannot be seen after the planking goes on. The upper deck ports in the waist that do not receive lids may not have linings, but the outboard edges of the sills and frames are covered by the planking so there is no boarder showing.
Allan
1755801111032.jpeg

1755801332562.jpeg
 
Chris Watton, the designer of this model, as with all his early models, shows some nonsense. The sheet of the spritsail was laid on the top timbers of the forecastle. This is what Marquardt says in his excellent book "Mast and Rigging in the Second Half of the 18th Century", this is what David Steele shows, and this is what you can see in the paintings of artists of that era.

1755791501080.png

Безымянный 1.jpg
 
Chris Watton, the designer of this model, as with all his early models, shows some nonsense. The sheet of the spritsail was laid on the top timbers of the forecastle. This is what Marquardt says in his excellent book "Mast and Rigging in the Second Half of the 18th Century", this is what David Steele shows, and this is what you can see in the paintings of artists of that era.

View attachment 539237

View attachment 539238
Yes, thanks Iutar. What else will I encounter? I think it's a good idea for me to post the drawings regularly and wait for your feedback.
 
Hi Marc,
Well done !! Tomorow I will give you a sample of Prussian Blue paint I use on my model. Try it, maybe it will give a beter look and probably closer to the original color used in that time.
 
Mark, show me at least a couple of photos, preferably of the interior. And I'll tell you whether the "museum model" has any relation to reality. The thing is that there is a certain "museum model" circulating on the Internet, but it is a pure KIT - a toy and Frankenstein.
 
Mark, show me at least a couple of photos, preferably of the interior. And I'll tell you whether the "museum model" has any relation to reality. The thing is that there is a certain "museum model" circulating on the Internet, but it is a pure KIT - a toy and Frankenstein.
here the link... and not at all a kit... 8 months of research...professional builder:
 
Dear Mark! Don't be charmed by beautiful words. This model has a huge pile of errors. I don't have eight months, but even from the first minutes I found a lot of historical and technical blunders. Most of the errors, oddly enough, are standard and have long been studied. For example, literally on the last page we looked at the correct gun port covers. On this model, the roofs are historically and technically incorrect. There is something stupid about this: there are two hinges on the covers, and one eyebolt for the rope that closes the cover. The eyebolts were on the hinges, there were two of them. Everyone knows this. There are other well-known bloopers: oars on boats are always placed with the blades forward, the insides of boats are always red in the 1780-90s. Never was the cargo davit on a launch placed together with the rudder - it is technically impossible. It would have been better if the author of the model had read the books by Lavery and Goodwin about English shipbuilding during these eight months. He writes that specialists helped him with photographs of drawings and models from Greenwich, but these documents do not and could not contain everything that is shown on the model. Incorrect top timbers, aft forecastle railing, forward quarterdeck railing. Allan asked where the pins on the aft railing came from - and he is right, because there were no pins there. Allan and I have already shown photos of drawings and models in your topic - it is clearly visible that everything is wrong. But the curators sent the author of the model exactly the same photos (you can see them on the walls of the workshop). The author of the model ignored them. Dear Mark! Do not ignore the photos that Allan and I sent you. Another example: in the ship's drawings, the bellfry is shown with two posts, but the modeler made it with four. The author believes that the ship did not have time to receive the new type of paint, but then why is its upper chanel-wales painted black? With such a paint scheme, black chanel-wales is basically impossible - it is the enemy's paint! (French). The copper plating is not period correct, and the rudder hinges placed on top of the copper plating are technical nonsense. This has been discussed a hundred times.
I'm on vacation now, no time, but if you send me more photos, I'll sign each mistake in them later (if you want, of course). I encourage other readers to take part in the "find the mistake" game!
 
Dear Mark! Don't be charmed by beautiful words. This model has a huge pile of errors. I don't have eight months, but even from the first minutes I found a lot of historical and technical blunders. Most of the errors, oddly enough, are standard and have long been studied. For example, literally on the last page we looked at the correct gun port covers. On this model, the roofs are historically and technically incorrect. There is something stupid about this: there are two hinges on the covers, and one eyebolt for the rope that closes the cover. The eyebolts were on the hinges, there were two of them. Everyone knows this. There are other well-known bloopers: oars on boats are always placed with the blades forward, the insides of boats are always red in the 1780-90s. Never was the cargo davit on a launch placed together with the rudder - it is technically impossible. It would have been better if the author of the model had read the books by Lavery and Goodwin about English shipbuilding during these eight months. He writes that specialists helped him with photographs of drawings and models from Greenwich, but these documents do not and could not contain everything that is shown on the model. Incorrect top timbers, aft forecastle railing, forward quarterdeck railing. Allan asked where the pins on the aft railing came from - and he is right, because there were no pins there. Allan and I have already shown photos of drawings and models in your topic - it is clearly visible that everything is wrong. But the curators sent the author of the model exactly the same photos (you can see them on the walls of the workshop). The author of the model ignored them. Dear Mark! Do not ignore the photos that Allan and I sent you. Another example: in the ship's drawings, the bellfry is shown with two posts, but the modeler made it with four. The author believes that the ship did not have time to receive the new type of paint, but then why is its upper chanel-wales painted black? With such a paint scheme, black chanel-wales is basically impossible - it is the enemy's paint! (French). The copper plating is not period correct, and the rudder hinges placed on top of the copper plating are technical nonsense. This has been discussed a hundred times.
I'm on vacation now, no time, but if you send me more photos, I'll sign each mistake in them later (if you want, of course). I encourage other readers to take part in the "find the mistake" game!
Hi Iutar,

As always, I read your comments with the utmost attention. I have no objections whatsoever.
May I systematically ask for your help:
Which color scheme is the same as it used to be?
See photos 1 and 2.
The second photo resembles the Diana's color scheme (blue). Is this correct? Or is it black, as the kit specifies?
foto 1:
1756996596674.png




Photo 2:
1756996727210.png
 
Dear Marc,
Because I'm building the same model, this is what I know about the colors :
Both are correct. It depends the period.
Prussian blue was a background color if you decide to the paint the frieze.
The Admiralty order to cease frieze painting came through in 1795, and so Agamemnon would have lost her decoration upon the vessel returning to England when she had to undergo a refit in 1796. from that period, side where painted in black.

Of course I leave to Ituar the final answer which will be also very interresting.

kind regards
 
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