HMS Alert [1777] 1:48 POF by serikoff. (Two hulls: skeleton and fully rigged)

[serikoff]

Great work Sergey. You should copyright this log and sell it a an instruction manual…. . Seriously tho it will be an amazing help to future Alert builders. Your wood work is so clean as well.

Ahaha, thank you) This goal was not set, but thanks for the idea))) You are right, my goal is to make the construction of those who see my review easier and more predictable.

True story I have found this out the hard way already.
Cheers Grant

I became acquainted with the fragility of wood when I started making victory. I used the Daru tree. It is very dense and strong, but for compression and bending, but the sweat of the corners on the layer of wood fell off very easily. But if things get better, everything will be fine. One life hack. Any tree that pricks can be impregnated with liquid CA at the end and then there will be no chips.

Going back a couple weeks to post #142, I THINK the drawing is incorrect as the wales strake sticks out past the other planks. The wales had to sit in the rabbet same as the other planks so reduced in thickness at the bow. The model below is a contemporary model at Preble Hall but this can be seen on other contemporary models as well on contemporary planking expansion plans.
Allan

I remember you wrote about it in Victory's thread. But I can notice that not everyone and not everywhere have been done this way. I will see how easy and visually beautiful it will be to do, and if it can work out that way, I will. If not, I will do it as in the drawing. Thanks for the tip.

 

[serikoff]

We continue with the stern.

Now let's move on to upgrading part 31.
This is in fact the last beams. And as expected, on the upper deck it should have a slight curvature. I copied this curvature from the beam that comes next next to this.



And from this template I drew the line of the bend of the deck.




And after getting the shape right, I prepared a little space for longitudinal beams. In the center they are, but on the sides - there are corner details, and these slots should not have been, but they are. But it will already be so...



Now, this part is more or less correct and it is possible to upgrade the beams of the upper small deck.

The moment is that this deck plus passed parallel to the bottom, but a step higher. In the set, these beams are significantly at a different angle and exclude this step, which is in the anatomy. Therefore, I cut off the rounded part of these beams and in the future there will be overlays that will create the correct plane for the boards of the small deck and the step between these decks.



I did not begin to remake, therefore I made it composite. The form is not simple, and I have already adjusted them. And the composite structure in such places is quite acceptable.




The finished 4 beams were glued to the PVA. Places that will not be modernized without cracks, which is very pleasing.





And in order to make the upper parts of these beams, you first need to make a step.



In essence, it is an array (not a bent rail), but an arc-shaped cut part 31. Its height as in anatomy is 4.5 mm plus the height of the deck board and that - 5.5 mm. And one more moment this step repeats the bend of the beam, which we gave him earlier!



But in order to fit this step to the correct size, it was necessary to install another frame (72). It is of a specific shape and needs numerous samples and grinding so that the frame fits correctly.



So that in the future it would be possible to remove the case from the slipway again - I strengthened this frame with a reinforcing jumper.



To speed up fixation, he glued the same cyanocrile gel to the whole.



As you may notice, the frame sat without a gap. But I have not yet begun to glue part 31 with a step. Since in the future this will block access to grinding the next frame. (marked with oval).



And here, as they say, when you have the experience of colleagues, you must take into account all the points and not be afraid to deviate from the instructions, where necessary... unless of course you're new. In this case, you need someone to tell you.



On this, with the stern, we pause and move on to the front frames. Since we still need to remove the case from the slipway, the sequence is exactly that. Watch, then it will be even more interesting.

 

[AllanKP69]

But I can notice that not everyone and not everywhere have been done this way.

You are right, most modern kits do not address this feature and it would probably be too costly for them to provide tapered planks. Most folks are unaware of this, so it is usually unnoticed. I learned about this while on a tour of Preble Hall with the curator of models. Before that I failed to taper the wales but so far not one person has pointed this mistake on my earlier models out to me

Allan

 

[serikoff]

Today I received NovelLife mini table saw from AliExpress. I've already tested it and I'm delighted! I definitely recommend it to everyone!
1. Small and quiet, does not vibrate.
2. Powerful (there is a regulator on the 12-24V power supply).
3. Metal and durable.
4. The disc rises and falls 0-14mm!!!
5. There are spare saw blades.
6. And most importantly, it cuts like butter. It cuts the pear (which is very dense) clearly and almost without traces. It looks like from under a ruler. (There are single micro-strips of burning, but they are very rare and on the surface, with the slightest polishing they completely disappear.

 

[serikoff]

3.4 Front frames (adjustment and fixation).

I have finished work on the stern so far and I will return to it later. In the meantime, I will make the front frames. The first 3 pairs have a special shape and you need to make it by stickers.






There are no particular difficulties in this. But the place of contact with frame 4 is very important. And it needs to be adjusted so that a gap does not form. Therefore, I do not recommend immediately polishing this place completely, but repeatedly checking.




It is also important that these two parts fit snugly together.



By the way, these lower combs, on which the frames will rest, are not the final shape. They need to be customized for each frame. Especially with the first 5-6s. Therefore, I still have not glued the case to the slipway, and I still have the opportunity to take it out and adjust it in a more convenient position, access and visibility.

After checking, I glued frames number 1 not in the slipway, controlling the position of the arc with the arc of the false keel. Importantly, there is no need to apply glue to the entire contact point! Since after cutting the frame it will be difficult to tear it off where the glue was.




Looking ahead, I want to show how the part should look like under the front frames. It was so cut not at one time, but by the method of selection, edits and micro-cuts after each frame.



And this is how the installed frames look dry (without glue). I recommend that you first adjust several frames and check the contours, and only then glue. This will save you from hollows if you incorrectly fit some frame and it will be out of place.






Earlier in the review, I said that I would do imitation of connections on 4, 5, 6 pairs of frames. Since they are in the anatomy and even in the instructions, but for some reason they were simplified in manufacture. I don't want to redo them, so imitation of connections is my option.

Here is a link to a description of the method...

When I set a few frames, I could see the logical position of the connections on the front pairs. I drew lines with a pencil and they will be landmarks for the position of the cuts. I repeated the same operation inside the case.



In short, I first draw the outline of the connection...



Then I make an incision with a special scalpel. Only I do not lead the cutting cream (you can accidentally make the cut larger, and the pressure is difficult to control), and I push the entire sharp plane along the entire length of the line. Just this line is the same as the length of the scalpel.



Below are examples (not the most indicative) but you can understand the principle from them.



On the right is a real connection. In the center - imitation. On the left is also imitation, but under oil and with imitation bolts. (not very visible, but the live lines are very similar to glue joints).

The first frame that needs to be glued is the 4th. It has no notes on how to grind it, so this is achieved empirically.



Also, to position 2x and 3x frames, you need to polish the slipway a little.

By the way, about the 2nd frame.



ATTENTION UPDATE:

On the inner surface, you can adhere to grinding by stickers...
... but the outer part should NOT be processed like this (as the stickers recommend)!!!

Unfortunately, although I said not to trust the stickers, I ground them along their contour, but you need to leave at least 1 mm more on the outside, as shown in the photo below with a red line.



If you process as the stickers show, you get a difference in the material, and after grinding there will be holes and holes like on this sample of another master.



The solution became - grinding the slipway and tilting the second frames forward to compensate for this deficit. Surprisingly, this will not affect the inner surface.



But with the 3rd frame, everything is not so simple. According to stickers - the form did not fit at all.



And I had to redo those details twice. But by the method of numerous adjustments, I did as much as I could.

And running ahead, after I took the case out of the slipway, this is what happened.



I achieved maximum symmetry and predicting the final grinding I think that the body will be with the correct contours, without dips. But since I have not yet glued the frames to the slipway, I will slightly tilt the upper ends of the 2x frames forward to surely achieve the correct shape.
...

 

[RogerD]

Good information and photos. Well explained too.

 

[serikoff]

Good information and photos. Well explained too.

Thank you for the kind words.

---

Attention, who follows my review, I made some changes and additions to the previous post. Very important information on the 2nd frame and solving the problem of material shortage when grinding on stickers.

 

[Frank48]

3.4 Front frames (adjustment and fixation).

I have finished work on the stern so far and I will return to it later. In the meantime, I will make the front frames. The first 3 pairs have a special shape and you need to make it by stickers.

View attachment 519518
View attachment 519519
View attachment 519520
View attachment 519521

There are no particular difficulties in this. But the place of contact with frame 4 is very important. And it needs to be adjusted so that a gap does not form. Therefore, I do not recommend immediately polishing this place completely, but repeatedly checking.

View attachment 519522
View attachment 519523

It is also important that these two parts fit snugly together.

View attachment 519524

By the way, these lower combs, on which the frames will rest, are not the final shape. They need to be customized for each frame. Especially with the first 5-6s. Therefore, I still have not glued the case to the slipway, and I still have the opportunity to take it out and adjust it in a more convenient position, access and visibility.

After checking, I glued frames number 1 not in the slipway, controlling the position of the arc with the arc of the false keel. Importantly, there is no need to apply glue to the entire contact point! Since after cutting the frame it will be difficult to tear it off where the glue was.

View attachment 519525
View attachment 519526

Looking ahead, I want to show how the part should look like under the front frames. It was so cut not at one time, but by the method of selection, edits and micro-cuts after each frame.

View attachment 519527

And this is how the installed frames look dry (without glue). I recommend that you first adjust several frames and check the contours, and only then glue. This will save you from hollows if you incorrectly fit some frame and it will be out of place.

View attachment 519528
View attachment 519529
View attachment 519530
View attachment 519531

Earlier in the review, I said that I would do imitation of connections on 4, 5, 6 pairs of frames. Since they are in the anatomy and even in the instructions, but for some reason they were simplified in manufacture. I don't want to redo them, so imitation of connections is my option.

Here is a link to a description of the method...

When I set a few frames, I could see the logical position of the connections on the front pairs. I drew lines with a pencil and they will be landmarks for the position of the cuts. I repeated the same operation inside the case.

View attachment 519532

In short, I first draw the outline of the connection...

View attachment 519533

Then I make an incision with a special scalpel. Only I do not lead the cutting cream (you can accidentally make the cut larger, and the pressure is difficult to control), and I push the entire sharp plane along the entire length of the line. Just this line is the same as the length of the scalpel.

View attachment 519534

Below are examples (not the most indicative) but you can understand the principle from them.

View attachment 519535

On the right is a real connection. In the center - imitation. On the left is also imitation, but under oil and with imitation bolts. (not very visible, but the live lines are very similar to glue joints).

The first frame that needs to be glued is the 4th. It has no notes on how to grind it, so this is achieved empirically.

View attachment 519536

Also, to position 2x and 3x frames, you need to polish the slipway a little.

By the way, about the 2nd frame.

View attachment 519537

ATTENTION UPDATE:

On the inner surface, you can adhere to grinding by stickers...
... but the outer part should NOT be processed like this (as the stickers recommend)!!!

Unfortunately, although I said not to trust the stickers, I ground them along their contour, but you need to leave at least 1 mm more on the outside, as shown in the photo below with a red line.

View attachment 519596

If you process as the stickers show, you get a difference in the material, and after grinding there will be holes and holes like on this sample of another master.

View attachment 519597

The solution became - grinding the slipway and tilting the second frames forward to compensate for this deficit. Surprisingly, this will not affect the inner surface.

View attachment 519598

But with the 3rd frame, everything is not so simple. According to stickers - the form did not fit at all.

View attachment 519539

And I had to redo those details twice. But by the method of numerous adjustments, I did as much as I could.

And running ahead, after I took the case out of the slipway, this is what happened.

View attachment 519540

I achieved maximum symmetry and predicting the final grinding I think that the body will be with the correct contours, without dips. But since I have not yet glued the frames to the slipway, I will slightly tilt the upper ends of the 2x frames forward to surely achieve the correct shape.
...

Hi, I ask: is it pencil mark or is it two pieces?Frank

 

[serikoff]

Hi, I ask: is it pencil mark or is it two pieces?Frank

View attachment 519625

If you have time, you can see what I showed in previous posts. In short, this is not a keel, but a temporary keel made of the same material as the slipway. It has its own purpose, which I described in detail earlier.

In the photo below, the real and temporary keel.

 

[serikoff]

And now, a small slideshow on assembling the front of the hull...































What else would I like to advise. The places that I noted below in the ovals are better polished as smoothly as possible. It will be difficult to get to places near the keel, and if there are scratches from a large grain of sandpaper, it will be difficult to fix it.



Again, I have not yet glued the upper ends of the frames to the slipway. I don't plan to pull it out anymore, but if necessary, there will be an opportunity for it. But, naturally, later I will glue everything for greater stability and the ability to grind.

On this while with the front part completely, and you can complete the stern completely.

 

[dockattner]

Very satisfying outcome!

 

[RussF]

Beautiful work on those frames! Not a criticism, but just a question - the areas where your chamfering ends do not align. Will this be a problem further down the road?

 

[Frank48]

If you have time, you can see what I showed in previous posts. In short, this is not a keel, but a temporary keel made of the same material as the slipway. It has its own purpose, which I described in detail earlier.

In the photo below, the real and temporary keel.

View attachment 519629

my question was: is it a pencil mark or not? but I didn't ask if it's the keel or what.I don't have time to see YOUR compromises .Frank

 

[Loracs]

Great log... I'm learning a lot about how you approach the built. It is a great learning experience not only to this ship but to POF in general. Thanks a lot for the time you spend compiling and editing the pictures.

Cheers, this will be a fantastic built.

 

[serikoff]

Very satisfying outcome!

Thank you very much. Glad you liked it.

Beautiful work on those frames! Not a criticism, but just a question - the areas where your chamfering ends do not align. Will this be a problem further down the road?

View attachment 519680

Thank you for your assessment. No, these places will not affect the treatment in any way. The cut will go a few mm below these places.

my question was: is it a pencil mark or not? but I didn't ask if it's the keel or what.I don't have time to see YOUR compromises .Frank

No, this is not a pencil line, but a glue line.

Great log... I'm learning a lot about how you approach the built. It is a great learning experience not only to this ship but to POF in general. Thanks a lot for the time you spend compiling and editing the pictures.

Cheers, this will be a fantastic built.

Thank you very much. I'm glad it helped you. It will be even more fun.

 

[serikoff]

3.5 Stern II (continued work on the rear part).

First of all, I glued the upper parts of the frames to the slipway, and now it will not be possible to remove the case from the slipway. But I glued them pointwise on the CA gel. And if it is necessary for some reason to remove any of them, then it will still be possible. But before grinding, I will still glue the entire surface near the frames for reliability.



So, stern. Before setting the toptimbers, you need to slightly adjust the slipway...




... so that the parts fit diagonally.



It is better to install everything at once in order to place them as much as possible with the same interval, and then adjust them along the plane.

You also need to prepare parts 77 for stickers. The principle is the same as before, even simpler.



And then, adjusting the parts for the seat - glue them to their places.





And after grinding the inner surface of the toptimbers, I glued a beam with a step and a couple of beams of the upper deck...



... then, two more (now the average 4 beams are ready)...



... and finally, glued 2 more side beams, which will hold the upper deck on the sides.



I sketched paper deck prototypes to visualize the step in between.



On this with the stern, I am still finished. The result is such a platform for the upper small deck. Next in line are the rear frames and there will be a slideshow again the main thing is not to forget to photograph all the stages

 

[Loracs]

Hello Serikoff, a quick question. You mentioned that you glue the beams to the slipway using CA. Why not something that can be reverse like hide glue, which could be reversed using heat (steam) and water? This would allow you to have the beams fixed while you build but with the option to free the ship at the end.
cheers,

 

[Philski]

Hello Serikoff, a quick question. You mentioned that you glue the beams to the slipway using CA. Why not something that can be reverse like hide glue, which could be reversed using heat (steam) and water? This would allow you to have the beams fixed while you build but with the option to free the ship at the end.
cheers,

CA can be debonded (reversed).

 

[Loracs]

You learn something every day... I did not know that. Thanks for the link too. Cheers,

 

[serikoff]

Hello Serikoff, a quick question. You mentioned that you glue the beams to the slipway using CA. Why not something that can be reverse like hide glue, which could be reversed using heat (steam) and water? This would allow you to have the beams fixed while you build but with the option to free the ship at the end.
cheers,

Spot glued, it is weak enough to be twisted with a knife and the seam will crack. This is needed as a backup option, and most likely this will not happen. But the answer about the reversibility of the glue is also relevant if you need to pull out the entire case, but it will be cut along certain lines using a template. Therefore, it should be in the frame at this point.

CA can be debonded (reversed)

Thanks for the answer