HMS Bounty 1:48 Made to Harold Hahn Plans

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i am putting out a cal for some help on my 1/48 bounty. if anyone has done the stern framing will you be willing to share the patterns you used to frame the stern? private message me and ill give you my email. If there is something you need like drawings made ( i have autocad and i am a retired mechanical engineer 49 years experience) ill make drawings for you... let me know......

maybe i can be of some help

looking at the inside of the Hahn model i tinted the wing transom blue this is the timber the stern frames sit on



the shape of the transom is drawn on the plans as you can see the forward edge of the transom rests against the last frame




a side view shows the height of the transom

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

the stern timbers sit on the wing transom
shaded pretty in pink




side and back view



and a view looking down

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

I have Autocad on my computer along with Solidworks 3d i was a mechanical engineer for 49 years.


that is going to be a great help because Harold did not draw out the stern timbers so you will need to figure out their shape. i can try and talk you through the process by using another model i am working on. I do not have the stern timbers drawn out for the bounty or i would just give you the CAD files.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

builders do not realize when working with Harold Hahn plans he gives you the starting point and some details but it is up to you to figure out the rest. Like having to plot out the shapes for the stern timbers. on the Bounty plans. Harold was more of hey figure it out, do a little research, you are not going to learn anything if it is all done for you.

 

[lesterpalifka]

framing of main hull done still have the stern to do but having trouble figuring it out help anyone? any one have patterens for the stern timbers?

maybe i can be of some help

looking at the inside of the Hahn model i tinted the wing transom blue this is the timber the stern frames sit on

View attachment 233941

the shape of the transom is drawn on the plans as you can see the forward edge of the transom rests against the last frame


View attachment 233942

a side view shows the height of the transom

View attachment 233945

does this look right and also can I make a filler block. If not do I use the pattern for transom 7 for the rest of the transom frames? Also the six up right curved frames which outline do I use for a pattern?

the stern timbers sit on the wing transom
shaded pretty in pink

View attachment 233957


side and back view

View attachment 233958

and a view looking down

View attachment 233959

Great that is exactly begat I was looking for thank you so much... for your help and quick response.

builders do not realize when working with Harold Hahn plans he gives you the starting point and some details but it is up to you to figure out the rest. Like having to plot out the shapes for the stern timbers. on the Bounty plans. Harold was more of hey figure it out, do a little research, you are not going to learn anything if it is all done for you.
I had the advantage because i was a student of his and it was not all the easy when i ask, he said LOOK at the drawing it is all there, where i don't see it? oh ok i got it

yes I see it now. And your right it is all there just have to figure it out. I was close with the vertical stern frame you show in pink. I have to redo the parts as I did not make it long enough. I made the 6 frames to the finished length. I bought anatomy of the ship -Bounty which gives great details as to the construction. I wish I had this book when I started the Bounty . Again thank you for your help and quick reply. I’ll take pics and post so you can see my progress...Lester

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

does this look right and also can I make a filler block. If not do I use the pattern for transom 7 for the rest of the transom frames? Also the six up right curved frames which outline do I use for a pattern?

if your planking the hull i would fill the area below the transom with a solid block and then shape it, there is no need to add the lower transoms.

the shape of the block will automatically take on its final shape as you sand the hull so the size block does not matter
take the filler block all the way to the end of the last frame. You will need something there for the planks to attach to.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Also the six up right curved frames which outline do I use for a pattern?


are you talking about the pink frames?

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

this is the point where Harold stops and you have to pick up on the drawing
the shape of those 6 stern frames are drawn to the 3 arches of the stern.



i imported the jpeg into Autocad an traced the end stern timber in red you can see the tracing to the right. on the left i turned it green



when i lay the end timber over the center timber you see it is not the same shape



zooming in you see the arc at the bottom changes from the end timber to the center timber




on Harold's plan he shows you the change but does not draw each timber. so the shape of the stern timbers go from the end pink one to the blue center one.



you plot out the shape of the stern timbers starting with a base line which is the top of the transom and the point of the arc where the timber crosses the arc the next 2 lines up from the base, the length of the timber from the arc point to the top of the stern which is also an arc. How far out the timber goes is the arc i pointed to with the red arrow.




the trick here is what i do is sit in my chair close my eyes and picture the shapes in my head kind of like 3d modeling in your head.

 

[MikeJ]

Many years ago I got a set of Bounty plans from Mr. Hahn and I've been waiting to develop the skills. Now I may be ready and thanks to you and you expertise it will go very well. Great work. Learning a lot. Thanks. Aloha, MikeJ

 

[lesterpalifka]

does this look right and also can I make a filler block. If not do I use the pattern for transom 7 for the rest of the transom frames? Also the six up right curved frames which outline do I use for a pattern?
Great do I am on the right track then. The filler block in the picture is only a test piece . I will make a solid block as you suggested. Thank you d so o much...Lester
if your planking the hull i would fill the area below the transom with a solid block and then shape it, there is no need to add the lower transoms.

the shape of the block will automatically take on its final shape as you sand the hull so the size block does not matter
take the filler block all the way to the end of the last frame. You will need something there for the planks to attach to.

View attachment 234085

 

[lesterpalifka]

this is the point where Harold stops and you have to pick up on the drawing
the shape of those 6 stern frames are drawn to the 3 arches of the stern.

View attachment 234090View attachment 234091

i imported the jpeg into Autocad an traced the end stern timber in red you can see the tracing to the right. on the left i turned it green

View attachment 234092

when i lay the end timber over the center timber you see it is not the same shape

View attachment 234093

zooming in you see the arc at the bottom changes from the end timber to the center timber


View attachment 234095

on Harold's plan he shows you the change but does not draw each timber. so the shape of the stern timbers go from the end pink one to the blue center one.

View attachment 234096

you plot out the shape of the stern timbers starting with a base line which is the top of the transom and the point of the arc where the timber crosses the arc the next 2 lines up from the base, the length of the timber from the arc point to the top of the stern which is also an arc. How far out the timber goes is the arc i pointed to with the red arrow.

View attachment 234097


the trick here is what i do is sit in my chair close my eyes and picture the shapes in my head kind of like 3d modeling in your head.

Great I have auto cad and solidworks 3d I’ll take and draw the three frames in auto cad and then do a 3 d drawing and see how it looks. Thank you so much everyone who is helping me is making this easier to understand. I am a retired mechanical engineer andbnotvusedvto some one taking things half way and then saying figure it out!!! Kinda discourages people from building from plans...

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

some one taking things half way and then saying figure it out!!! Kinda discourages people from building from plans...

Harold had a strong dislike for kits as an engineer he felt builders should learn and develop skills. When Harold passed away i got his entire library and in that library were hundreds and hundreds of letters boxes full, asking questions and he must of spent hundreds of hours answering those letters.
He was not only a model builder but a draftsman, artist and most of all a teacher.
Maybe he figured when it was time to go someone would pick up where he left off,
i had two full 8 foot bed pickup trucks to transport his personal library and a year reading and sorting through it.
this is a small sample

when you think about it there is very little to no construction details in old ship plans just the basic info it was up to the master shipwright to figure out how to build it.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i am not to bad with Autocad and 3D modeling with fusion360 so if you need help just ask.

 

[lesterpalifka]

this is the point where Harold stops and you have to pick up on the drawing
the shape of those 6 stern frames are drawn to the 3 arches of the stern.

View attachment 234090View attachment 234091

i imported the jpeg into Autocad an traced the end stern timber in red you can see the tracing to the right. on the left i turned it green

View attachment 234092

when i lay the end timber over the center timber you see it is not the same shape

View attachment 234093

zooming in you see the arc at the bottom changes from the end timber to the center timber


View attachment 234095

on Harold's plan he shows you the change but does not draw each timber. so the shape of the stern timbers go from the end pink one to the blue center one.

View attachment 234096

you plot out the shape of the stern timbers starting with a base line which is the top of the transom and the point of the arc where the timber crosses the arc the next 2 lines up from the base, the length of the timber from the arc point to the top of the stern which is also an arc. How far out the timber goes is the arc i pointed to with the red arrow.

View attachment 234097


the trick here is what i do is sit in my chair close my eyes and picture the shapes in my head kind of like 3d modeling in your head.

Can I buy the cad files from you? It would save me from duplication of your work. Def or dxf. Please let me know I’ll give you my email address... thanks for considering my request....Lester

 

[lesterpalifka]

i am not to bad with Autocad and 3D modeling with fusion360 so if you need help just ask.

Wow wow wow what treasure trove. I started out as a draftsman and over the years I got the experience to call myself a mechanical engineer I have been doing cad since 1981 when I learned ibm cad am for work. Main frame system costing 4 million. I have been doing auto cad for 38 years and inventor and solidworks for ten. I so appreciate your offer to help Dave that is very generous of you. Here is a picture of a rc large scale jet I am designing for a friend in South Carolina. A Fury FJ— wing span 98 inches powered by an actual jet turbine my buddy designed and built. Am I allowed to give my email here?

 

[shota70]

some one taking things half way and then saying figure it out!!! Kinda discourages people from building from plans...

Harold had a strong dislike for kits as an engineer he felt builders should learn and develop skills. When Harold passed away i got his entire library and in that library were hundreds and hundreds of letters boxes full, asking questions and he must of spent hundreds of hours answering those letters.
He was not only a model builder but a draftsman, artist and most of all a teacher.
Maybe he figured when it was time to go someone would pick up where he left off,
i had two full 8 foot bed pickup trucks to transport his personal library and a year reading and sorting through it.
this is a small sample

when you think about it there is very little to no construction details in old ship plans just the basic info it was up to the master shipwright to figure out how to build it.

View attachment 234120View attachment 234121View attachment 234122

Dear Dave
Well done for the things you do, they respect and place a living monument in memory of Harold Hahn

 

[lesterpalifka]

Dave how does this look. I drew the end and center frames in auto cad. Also how do I attach these to the hull as the lengths do not reach the jig to line things up. I took a pick of the actual hull. I made the frames right from the plans assuming that the section lines on the plans represent the frame jig. My frame jig is 1/4 thick does this make a difference? Is the transom frame in the right spot ?

 

[lesterpalifka]

After a week of studying the planes looking at several books on Bounty like Antomy of the ship I finally figured out how the stern is done. Thank you to Dave for his expert help this is just a dry fit of the outer frames

 

[BradNSW]

Love the "contemplated this for a week" part! I do this all the time and eventually the solution/method works itself out. Looking awesome!

 

[lesterpalifka]

Love the "contemplated this for a week" part! I do this all the time and eventually the solution/method works itself out. Looking awesome!

Hahn shows the stern timbers as two different sizes and profiles. in studying the anatomy of the ship i find the timbers are all the same and on a slight arc. i will be making all my timbers the same which makes more sense than the plans. i found when i was working on the restoration of the Charles W Morgan (1841 whale ship at Mystic seaport Museum) that on multiply structures there were no slight variations .... they were all the same...here are the main references i am using to build this plus some other 1/48 plans but these are basically what i'm using for reference.