HMS Sovereign of the Seas - Bashing DeAgostini Beyond Believable Boundaries

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

While I'm waiting for more information from Nigel and a bunch of balsa blocks that were ordered, work on the launch was started. It's a basic frame and planking kit. Once the balsa arrives it will be used to fill the space between frames below the lower gun deck to help control the bends and prevent flat spots in the first planking.

 

[NMBROOK]

Kurt

The Lely portrait only shows the stern which would be all black if following the same scheme of later 17th Century ships.My interpretation is that "only colour used was black"only refers to painted areas.It doesn't necessarily mean the upper hull didn't have areas of unpainted Oak.

No conclusive information is available,but I am pretty confident blue didn't feature as it does in Sergal's design.

Kind Regards

Nigel

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Kurt

The Lely portrait only shows the stern which would be all black if following the same scheme of later 17th Century ships.My interpretation is that "only colour used was black"only refers to painted areas.It doesn't necessarily mean the upper hull didn't have areas of unpainted Oak.

No conclusive information is available,but I am pretty confident blue didn't feature as it does in Sergal's design.

Kind Regards

Nigel

Thanks Nigel. Just tryin to put the whole color question in perspective. The model would look better with unpainted wood on the sides, and I'm leaning that way. No red strips or railings though. They look nice, but I can't find any source for them.

 

[NMBROOK]

Thanks Nigel. Just tryin to put the whole color question in perspective. The model would look better with unpainted wood on the sides, and I'm leaning that way. No red strips or railings though. They look nice, but I can't find any source for them.

Kurt
There is a painting of the ship under sail with the red railing panels.The red areas were quite common in the second half of the 17th century amongst English vessels.Several paintings of the period show these on various English ships of the line

Regards
Nigel

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Kurt
There is a painting of the ship under sail with the red railing panels.The red areas were quite common in the second half of the 17th century amongst English vessels.Several paintings of the period show these on various English ships of the line

Regards
Nigel

A painting of SotS with the red rails? Where? I'd be interested in posting it here, and dating the painting to see if it is older than 1660.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Planking of the launch is complete.

 

[NMBROOK]

Kurt

Here you go,didn't think I would find it that easy;

English School, 18th Century | HMS Sovereign of the Seas, a British man-o'-war, 1500 tons, 102 guns, in choppy seas | Paintings, canvas | Christie's

Regards

Nigel

 

[NMBROOK]

Kurt

Here is another reference..Whilst at first glance you think the rail panels are brown,closer inspection reveals the inside of the gunport lids and banners with the George cross are exactly the same tone.In other words this faded shade does indeed depict red.

'Sovereign of the Seas' (Br, 1637) posters & prints by John Payne (rmg.co.uk)

Regards

Nigel

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I found this high-res version, and posted it here for everyone's benefit. Thanks, Nigel!

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Kurt

Here you go,didn't think I would find it that easy;

English School, 18th Century | HMS Sovereign of the Seas, a British man-o'-war, 1500 tons, 102 guns, in choppy seas | Paintings, canvas | Christie's

Regards

Nigel

I was able to extract the full size picture. Here it is for all our friends to enjoy. I guess it's probably acceptable to have the red railings, although this painting was made in the 1700's, much later than SotS.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Kurt

Here you go,didn't think I would find it that easy;

English School, 18th Century | HMS Sovereign of the Seas, a British man-o'-war, 1500 tons, 102 guns, in choppy seas | Paintings, canvas | Christie's

Regards

Nigel

Nigel, how do you do your trenails and iron bolts on the hull? They show up we even against the black painted planking.

 

[NMBROOK]

Nigel, how do you do your trenails and iron bolts on the hull? They show up we even against the black painted planking.

Kurt

The treenails on the hull are 0.4mm holes filled with wood putty.The black areas are not painted,I used "planks" of black marquetry veneer with 0.3mm brass wire to represent the fixings.

Regards

Nigel

 

[NMBROOK]

Hi Kurt

No hurry. My work on the frame is proceeding as information allows, and there's no rush. I estimated the change in rudder post angle taken from measurements of your photos, and have penciled in the next change, which is that transverse sweep of the upper transom from a double curve to a single one, seen below. When narrowing the upper frames, will the change in dimension require new upper frame support pieces, or just a thinning of the existing ones?

I noted in your build log that to planked the entire outside of the hull and then worked on the decks starting at the bottom. I can see that way any vertical repositioning of the gun ports can be reflected in the decks, after mapping the wale and gun positions on the outside of the hull. Seems like a logical progression. Like you, I will have to excavating the frame structure below the lower deck, and let the exterior of the hull dictate the position of the interior structure. The first step is establishing the shape and form of the exterior, one feature at a time.

View attachment 196239

Upper stern sweep proposed changes
View attachment 196210

Sternpost increased angle
View attachment 196211

Sternpost angle changed, with frame support jig changed to match upper section of sternpost
View attachment 196212

Proposed change to increase angle of stern by extending poop deck 7mm.
View attachment 196213

Proposed changes to gun ports and upper transom sweep
View attachment 196239

This modification will also be incorporated
View attachment 196254

Nigel, I could use these dimensions when you get a chance. More requests will follow, and I am very grateful for your help.
View attachment 196252

Hi Kurt

Dimensions as requested to your picture to the outside of the planking.The bottom dim is to the outside of the planking, not the wale.

Top 79mm
Middle 90mm
Bottom 121mm

Regards

Nigel

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hi Kurt




Hi Kurt

Dimensions as requested to your picture to the outside of the planking.The bottom dim is to the outside of the planking, not the wale.

Top 79mm
Middle 90mm
Bottom 121mm

Regards

Nigel

Thanks Nigel. Now shaping of the stern frames can begin.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Stern shape was modified to be narrower at the top and a bit wider at the mid-height. Some scrap plywood was glued to the edge and the part then sanded to shape.

 

[NMBROOK]

Kurt

If I remember, it may have been the second to last bulkhead is dubiously narrow around the lower gunlock causing a dip.I packed it out slightly with scrap before planking

Regards

Nigel

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Nigel, what's a gunlock, and are you talking about frame 1 or 2? I was going to make the edges at 2 and 3 slightly concave, like in your stern profile.

 

[NMBROOK]

Nigel, what's a gunlock, and are you talking about frame 1 or 2? I was going to make the edges at 2 and 3 slightly concave, like in your stern profile.

View attachment 197300

Kurt

Gundeck,predictive on imac

It was the bulkhead infront of bulkhead 1 in you picture(not in pic)

Regards

Nigel

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I should have chosen a better numbering convention. Anyhow, You said that the "0" frame needs reshaping? That means the "-1" frame would also.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Nigel, narrow the stern castle to the pencil lines shown below? Is that the shape you are looking for?