HMS Vanguard - Amati - scale 1:72 - Foto

maddog barry said:
but also according to painting some would still remain lavish during the Napoleonic war , but please correct me if i am wrong ok
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In this picture the battery decks are painted white. This flag was abolished 15 years ago. There were three lanterns. There were no trysails on the foremast and mainmast. The bottom of the stern was black. The lower velhout was black. Continue further? We throw this “document” in the trash.
maddog barry said:
living near to the british maritime museum
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Find there at least one model of a battleship for a given period with gold.
maddog barry said:
her hull being white and black like on this one
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All these paintings were painted in a later period. There are other paintings of Bellerophon, where its hull is painted in adequate colors.


maddog barry said:
i highlty doubt this painting is with a occre color stern
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Don't hesitate! Here is all the “gold” of those years:
4153701966_d05f6bbff2_b.jpg


Winter said:
Forester writes that financially secure captains decorated their ships with gold paint at their own expense
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To paint in "gold" the eyebrows on the figurehead's head is a month's salary. To paint a ship like the Vanguard in “gold” is the ruin of several estates.
 
yes i do agree it was up to the captain regarding how the was decorated , i read the same things in the billy ruffian books , but in very rare occasion the captains was paying from he's own pocket unless being part of a very wealthy family or being very successful in capturing enemy ships , it is very hard to find more accurate proof of how ships would look like before nelson decided on a more military uniform color scheme as we know it to day , i am still scouter the nmm in Greenwich to find more details about all this and also refits and changes after battles , ships never truly look the same after any repairs and refits .

then again , building a ship is a personal things , choosing to really be accurate its not always easy , and not for everyone , so i understand why some would decide to customise theyere ships based on personal taste , and culture , am french and love both french and british ships , since they keep on copying each other , its not a lot of differences lol makes it easier
 
iutar said:
In this picture the battery decks are painted white. This flag was abolished 15 years ago. There were three lanterns. There were no trysails on the foremast and mainmast. The bottom of the stern was black. The lower velhout was black. Continue further? We throw this “document” in the trash.

Find there at least one model of a battleship for a given period with gold.

All these paintings were painted in a later period. There are other paintings of Bellerophon, where its hull is painted in adequate colors.



Don't hesitate! Here is all the “gold” of those years:
View attachment 485132



To paint in "gold" the eyebrows on the figurehead's head is a month's salary. To paint a ship like the Vanguard in “gold” is the ruin of several estates.
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love it , finally getting somewhere
 
Good afternoon, dear Winter and Maddog and other friends!
Maddog,
Maybe you, as a Frenchman, are interested in knowing that the French Navy abandoned gilding even earlier. The reason is the same: lack of funds. The French were also the first to paint the lower part of the ship’s hull black: this was influenced by a shortage of the mineral ocher.
I would like to share with pleasure this image of the ship Bellerophon, Vanguard's sistership, marine painter Thomas Lyiney, with the same story about Napoleon. There are interesting details here: lights removed for the day (standard procedure for cleaning and refilling), standard body paint, correct installation of sails when anchoring.
HMS_Bellerophon_Lying_at_Anchor_by_Thomas_Luny.jpg
 
maddog barry said:
it is very hard to find more accurate proof of how ships would look like
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I agree Barry. I looked at the original contracts for Culloden 1776, Thunderer 1783 and for a 74 written in 1781. The first has no mention of paint and the latter has a very general description which is below.
Allan

To treble paint the Ship without Board with good Oil Colours, and in like Manner the Great Cabin, Steerage, and all the Cabins, Rails, Stantions, Ladders, Gratings, Gangways, Bulkheads, Capstands, Upper deck beams, and Knees, and all the Work both within and without board for finishing and compleating the Hull of said Ship, shall be done in a Workmanlike Manner, equal in all respects to those of His Majesty’s Ships of the like Quality in the King’s Yards.
 
so let said i want to get accurate on how the bello look like when she got napoleon onboard . white and black hull . and all stern deco painting but not guiled. or maybe gold paint ?
 
iutar said:
Good afternoon, dear Winter and Maddog and other friends!
Maddog,
Maybe you, as a Frenchman, are interested in knowing that the French Navy abandoned gilding even earlier. The reason is the same: lack of funds. The French were also the first to paint the lower part of the ship’s hull black: this was influenced by a shortage of the mineral ocher.
I would like to share with pleasure this image of the ship Bellerophon, Vanguard's sistership, marine painter Thomas Lyiney, with the same story about Napoleon. There are interesting details here: lights removed for the day (standard procedure for cleaning and refilling), standard body paint, correct installation of sails when anchoring.
View attachment 485305
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love the comment thanks for that
 
maddog barry said:
so let said i want to get accurate on how the bello look like when she got napoleon onboard . white and black hull . and all stern deco painting but not guiled. or maybe gold paint ?
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No. Black and yellow ocher.
Black and white coloring will appear much later, in the thirties of the nineteenth century.

maddog barry said:
all stern deco painting but not guiled. or maybe gold paint ?
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No. The decor is painted with yellow ochre.

Here is another painting from the Greenwich collection, which shows the scene of farewell to Napoleon.

HMS_Bellerophon_and_Napoleon-cropped.jpg
 
iutar said:
No. Black and yellow ocher.
Black and white coloring will appear much later, in the thirties of the nineteenth century.


No. The decor is painted with yellow ochre.

Here is another painting from the Greenwich collection, which shows the scene of farewell to Napoleon.

View attachment 485413
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yeah i got that one too and also other from the same time apparently but white not occre lol , ok then deco and hull will be occre , winsdows white , thanks guys
 
Did you mean to say "windows"? I'm afraid to anger you, but...... The window frames were also ocher. :)
White window frames are only suitable for Winter's model, for the time period he wants to show.

2008_10_Victory_Out_17.jpg
 
Привет, Андрей! Да, я знаю, мы с ним много общались. У Миши стало сильно падать зрение - он и тогда уже был слеп на один глаз, риск полностью потерять зрение заставил отказаться от продолжения работы. Мише 77 лет.

Hello Andrey! Yes, I know, we talked a lot. Misha's eyesight began to deteriorate greatly - even then he was already blind in one eye, and the risk of completely losing his sight forced him to refuse to continue working. Misha is 77 years old.
 
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Андрей, не могу в ВКонтакт зайти, лови здесь, пропорции из Стила в сжатой форме. По лисель-спиртам там есть и длина, и толщина. Можешь, если интересно, сравнить с таблицами готовых размеров, что присылал тебе раньше - чтобы увидеть, как округлялись величины.

((I am sending Winter the brief formulas of D. Steele))

Стил пропорции 1.jpg Стил пропорции 2.jpg
 
iutar said:
Андрей, не могу в ВКонтакт зайти, лови здесь, пропорции из Стила в сжатой форме. По лисель-спиртам там есть и длина, и толщина. Можешь, если интересно, сравнить с таблицами готовых размеров, что присылал тебе раньше - чтобы увидеть, как округлялись величины.

((I am sending Winter the brief formulas of D. Steele))

View attachment 487504 View attachment 487503
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Толщина марса реев 1/54 =4,81 мм, у меня по твоей таблице получилось фор-марса-рей 260мм-4,5 мм , кому верить? Грот-марс по таблице 5.1мм, 1/54= 5.5ми
 
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Андрей, конечно же, верить таблице. Сначала данные вычислялись по формулам, потом округлялись и заносились в таблицу как финальный результат. Я же говорю: посмотри, как округлялись цифры. За источник не сомневайся: и формулы, и таблицы составлены одним и тем же коллективом авторов (поколение Стилов) на основании Уложений. В книге К-Х Марквардта (помимо прочих) цитаты из этого же источника, поэтому я тебе их мог и не присылать, ведь главной целью было просто ответить на твой запрос по лисель-спиртам.
 
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