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LE FLEURON 1729 1:48 scale - Randy Halter [COMPLETED BUILD]
- Thread starter Randy Halter
- Start date
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Hello Everyone, happy 2023. Here are some new pictures of the boat. I am very happy with how the light turned out. I have a question maybe someone can help with. Does anyone know if plans exist for the rigging of this ship? I can use the plans I have, but I was wondering if there is more information out there. Thank you.
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Great work Randy. I love your imaginative talents. The stern lantern looks super.
Although it is not specific to Le Fleuron, Jean Boudriot's 74 Gun Ship, Volume 3, has very detailed information on all rigging and related elements. It includes belay pin assignments, line and cable dimensions, masts, spar dimension. Pretty much everything you need and would apply to Le Fleuron. It is what I will be using.
Although it is not specific to Le Fleuron, Jean Boudriot's 74 Gun Ship, Volume 3, has very detailed information on all rigging and related elements. It includes belay pin assignments, line and cable dimensions, masts, spar dimension. Pretty much everything you need and would apply to Le Fleuron. It is what I will be using.
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I always use these these books
https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/the-ashley-book-of-knots-by-clifford-w-ashley.8629/
also free pdf online
And a must have
The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, 1600 - 1720, writer R.C. Anderson
Book review - SEAMANSHIP IN THE AGE OF SAIL: An Account of the Shiphandling of the Sailing Man-of-War 1600-1860" by John Harland
Seamanship in the Age of Sail: An Account of the Shiphandling of the Sailing Man-of-War 1600-1860, By John Harland Illustrated by Mark Myers Hardcover: 320 pages Publisher: Naval Institute Press (January 15, 2016) Language: English ISBN-10: 0870219553 ISBN-13: 978-0870219559 Product...
shipsofscale.com
https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/the-ashley-book-of-knots-by-clifford-w-ashley.8629/
also free pdf online
Book review - The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860" by James Lees
An other cornerstone in each private library describing the mast, spars and the complex rigging work should be The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860 By James Lees Publisher: Naval Institute Press; 2nd Rev edition (October 1984) Pages: 212 ISBN-10: 0870219480...
shipsofscale.com
And a must have
The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, 1600 - 1720, writer R.C. Anderson
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Just one additional note, as I understand it, Jean Boudriot's "74 Gun Ship" volumes are specific to French shipwright design. Admitting my own ignorance, I'm not sure if there are significant differences in rigging between the French and other countries during the same period for a 3rd rate ship of the line.
Brilliantly done Randy - beautiful !!!
Donnie
Donnie
Beautiful work.
BRAVO - super result 
Hello Everyone,
A few more more pictures of current progress. Thank you Donnie for allowing me the use of your rigging books. The books were a very helpful.
Also, thank you Hoss6262 for the book recommendation. I just received Jean Boudriot's "74 Gun Ship" volume 3 and it is exactly what I was looking for. I excited to get started on the rope making and rigging.
A few more more pictures of current progress. Thank you Donnie for allowing me the use of your rigging books. The books were a very helpful.
Also, thank you Hoss6262 for the book recommendation. I just received Jean Boudriot's "74 Gun Ship" volume 3 and it is exactly what I was looking for. I excited to get started on the rope making and rigging.
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I'm wondering why would you use completly diffrent ship rigging? With ANCRE'S monographs there's always a booklet that decribes every planche and rigging-not always with belaying points, but Le Fleuron has both. Boudriot's "74 Gun Ship" volume 3 could be very helpful as it has many pictures with descriptions it cannot be used to rig your ship.
Have you not received copy of booklet?
74GS has completly diffrent ending points. Where you have eyelets and cleats 74 has ninepin bitts.
Endings under Main mast and Mizzen - same story.
You have extraordynary model. It would be such a loss to rig it wrong way.
Fully rigged Le Fleuron
74GS 2:10 min - particularly
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@WojtasS, I offered JB's 74GS as a source in the absence of any details. I too am have Ancre's Le Fleuron monograph. While it does have belay pin point mappings, the monograph is curiously absent of rigging details. I have been made aware of Gerard Delacroix having an addendum with monograph corrections and have sent Ancre multiple emails over the last 3 months, with no response.
Specifically, there is no "booklet" that accompanies the monograph, the monograph book and the plan set. That is it.
Le Fleuron is unique as in 1729 it bridges maritime technology of the of the time, some rigging maps will be the same others different. Still having round tops, jeer bits, etc.
If you have no rigging information JB's 74 GS has value, although I concede it is a snap shot of a slightly later dated technology and therefore not a complete solution.
NOTE: Taken from Ancre's Le Fleuron monograph, page 82, quoted from the author Gerard Delacroix. "The rigging of Le Fleuron shows many particularities for this time period but a study of the basic principles can be done thru Volume III of the work of Jean Boudriot's; 'The 74 Gun Ship'". He goes on to write that, as I stated, it is not an exact solution as many things were changing during the time period.
With all this said, I had planned on eventually continuing my research to find the accurate source for her rigging. But as my rigging is most likely 2-3 yrs away, I've not gone gung-ho with it.
I have no doubt my final solution will be a compilation of information from different sources, unless a single source of her rigging exists somewhere I've yet to discover.
Cheers!
Specifically, there is no "booklet" that accompanies the monograph, the monograph book and the plan set. That is it.
Le Fleuron is unique as in 1729 it bridges maritime technology of the of the time, some rigging maps will be the same others different. Still having round tops, jeer bits, etc.
If you have no rigging information JB's 74 GS has value, although I concede it is a snap shot of a slightly later dated technology and therefore not a complete solution.
NOTE: Taken from Ancre's Le Fleuron monograph, page 82, quoted from the author Gerard Delacroix. "The rigging of Le Fleuron shows many particularities for this time period but a study of the basic principles can be done thru Volume III of the work of Jean Boudriot's; 'The 74 Gun Ship'". He goes on to write that, as I stated, it is not an exact solution as many things were changing during the time period.
With all this said, I had planned on eventually continuing my research to find the accurate source for her rigging. But as my rigging is most likely 2-3 yrs away, I've not gone gung-ho with it.
I have no doubt my final solution will be a compilation of information from different sources, unless a single source of her rigging exists somewhere I've yet to discover.
Cheers!
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@Hoss6262
I was only concerned Randy has no information how to do the rigging and plans to use JB's 74GS V3 in 1:1 not as other source of information.
By the booklet I ment the book, sorry my mistake
Cheers!
I was only concerned Randy has no information how to do the rigging and plans to use JB's 74GS V3 in 1:1 not as other source of information.
By the booklet I ment the book, sorry my mistake
Yes. Rope ending at a cleant instead a pin bitt doesn't change much, but a lower yard jeers-foremast for example is competly diffrent. Where Le Fleuron uses ropes+one big block, 74GS usues 4 tripe sheve blocks. And such details are described in the Le Fleuron's book. Rigging a a ship from monograph is much harder then the kit and any useful book and information is critical so I would suggest for Randy to use Le Fleuron's book + JB's 74GS V3(as a other source of information) not the other way around. Maybe I got the wrong imppresion Randy was planning to use only JB's 74GS V3, so sorry if I got it wrong
Cheers!
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No worries at all. I do believe you and I have been saying the same thing.
My suggestion was offered, as I believe yours is, to help Randy. Since I have the same monograph/book as Randy we are both reading the same information content and have come to the same conclusion, more information is needed. Knowing that, my assumption was Randy could use JB's 74 GS volume to supplement what was in the monograph.
I DO believe a majority of the rigging on Le Fleuron will follow the general practices outlined in JB's 74 GS volume. As you've pointed out, Le Fleuron clearly differs in the area of the foremast rigging tie down points, using many cleats opposed belay pins.
I think, when I get to that point, a lot of analysis will be required. I want to approach this by verifying the easiest areas first and save the ambiguous areas last as not to get frustrate early on (I know how I can get).
My approach would be (for the purposes of analysis ONLY, not actual work order);
Standing Rigging (much should be the same between Ancre's monograph/book and the 74 GS volume) easiest and fastest area of the analysis
- Mizzen
- Main
- Fore
- Bowsprit
Running Rigging
Same order as running rigging, saving the most difficult area for last, the foremast and perhaps the bowsprit.
Edit: Almost forgot, another area ambiguity with little or no information is the Studding Sail Boom rigging.
As things become clear, we can check them off and approve to ourselves they are ready for construction. Formal process helps me avoid "paralysis by analysis" where I get stuck. I will use a spreadsheet to help myself progress systematically through the large amounts of information. Most likely a spreadsheet to check off each area for "Analysis" and "Construction" and any other relevant step.
I know I've gone into a bit of a deep dive here, not to highjack Randy's blog, but to offer relevant information that Randy may find useful.
@WojtasS, thanks for sharing your thoughts and information. If "two heads are better than one", then 3 are better than 2, and so on....
I honestly am not sure where I would be in modeling if I did not find SoS. I know we all acknowledge this often, but for me, it really cannot be understated.
Look forward to seeing you get into your rigging Randy as you will be there long before I am.
Cheers to all!
My suggestion was offered, as I believe yours is, to help Randy. Since I have the same monograph/book as Randy we are both reading the same information content and have come to the same conclusion, more information is needed. Knowing that, my assumption was Randy could use JB's 74 GS volume to supplement what was in the monograph.
I DO believe a majority of the rigging on Le Fleuron will follow the general practices outlined in JB's 74 GS volume. As you've pointed out, Le Fleuron clearly differs in the area of the foremast rigging tie down points, using many cleats opposed belay pins.
I think, when I get to that point, a lot of analysis will be required. I want to approach this by verifying the easiest areas first and save the ambiguous areas last as not to get frustrate early on (I know how I can get).
My approach would be (for the purposes of analysis ONLY, not actual work order);
Standing Rigging (much should be the same between Ancre's monograph/book and the 74 GS volume) easiest and fastest area of the analysis
- Mizzen
- Main
- Fore
- Bowsprit
Running Rigging
Same order as running rigging, saving the most difficult area for last, the foremast and perhaps the bowsprit.
Edit: Almost forgot, another area ambiguity with little or no information is the Studding Sail Boom rigging.
As things become clear, we can check them off and approve to ourselves they are ready for construction. Formal process helps me avoid "paralysis by analysis" where I get stuck. I will use a spreadsheet to help myself progress systematically through the large amounts of information. Most likely a spreadsheet to check off each area for "Analysis" and "Construction" and any other relevant step.
I know I've gone into a bit of a deep dive here, not to highjack Randy's blog, but to offer relevant information that Randy may find useful.
@WojtasS, thanks for sharing your thoughts and information. If "two heads are better than one", then 3 are better than 2, and so on....
I honestly am not sure where I would be in modeling if I did not find SoS. I know we all acknowledge this often, but for me, it really cannot be understated.
Look forward to seeing you get into your rigging Randy as you will be there long before I am.
Cheers to all!
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Kurt Konrath
Kurt Konrath
OK, one question I have for the more experienced model shipwrights out there.
On the crow's-nest platforms, why are the radial supporting ribs attached to the top side of the platform, instead of the underside?
Seems like this design would make it harder on crew to stand and work with all the peaks and valleys from this design.
Kurt
On the crow's-nest platforms, why are the radial supporting ribs attached to the top side of the platform, instead of the underside?
Seems like this design would make it harder on crew to stand and work with all the peaks and valleys from this design.
Kurt
This is fantastic work, looking at your work is breathtaking.
Hello Everyone. Current progress pictures. I'm getting the rigging figured out slowly but surely.
More pictures.
Looks absolutely great.
I haven’t been here for some time, now, so your progress is really astonishing. This is some really impressive ornamental work, and a unique approach to making it. Just outstanding, overall, Randy!
Fantastic work !!