Le Soleil Royal ZHL Build Log [COMPLETED BUILD]

Now I’m thinking ahead. I just read a discussion on Model Ship World forum on the color of the lanyards. The almost unanimous opinion, based upon actual research and rationale, was that the lanyards were black or dark brown due to the use of pine tar. This flies in the face of almost anything I’ve read or observed in the SOS forum. The reasoning seemed to center on the fact that the tension on the shrouds was rarely, if ever, adjusted while under sail. They are considered part of the standing rigging and are dark in color. Any strong arguments against this line of reasoning? You can see the arguments at the Model Ship World topic of shroud lanyard color. Also, deadeyes aren’t blocks with pulleys, so you don’t have to worry about fouling the pulleys.
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Vfordyce said:
Now I’m thinking ahead. I just read a discussion on Model Ship World forum on the color of the lanyards. The almost unanimous opinion, based upon actual research and rationale, was that the lanyards were black or dark brown due to the use of pine tar. This flies in the face of almost anything I’ve read or observed in the SOS forum. The reasoning seemed to center on the fact that the tension on the shrouds was rarely, if ever, adjusted while under sail. They are considered part of the standing rigging and are dark in color. Any strong arguments against this line of reasoning? You can see the arguments at the Model Ship World topic of shroud lanyard color. Also, deadeyes aren’t blocks with pulleys, so you don’t have to worry about fouling the pulleys.
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Vic, there are strong arguments against what you have read and observed on the SOS forum. Everything is written here correctly.
 
Vfordyce said:
Now I’m thinking ahead. I just read a discussion on Model Ship World forum on the color of the lanyards. The almost unanimous opinion, based upon actual research and rationale, was that the lanyards were black or dark brown due to the use of pine tar. This flies in the face of almost anything I’ve read or observed in the SOS forum. The reasoning seemed to center on the fact that the tension on the shrouds was rarely, if ever, adjusted while under sail. They are considered part of the standing rigging and are dark in color. Any strong arguments against this line of reasoning? You can see the arguments at the Model Ship World topic of shroud lanyard color. Also, deadeyes aren’t blocks with pulleys, so you don’t have to worry about fouling the pulleys.
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The arguments are still going on and basically divided into two groups: against dark and vote for the dark lanyards. Here is my personal observation. All standing rigging is dark because it was tared prior to use and continued tarred while the use. This is mainly why it is a dark color. Running rigging was never tared, there was no such practice, therefore it is a light (cream\grey) color. This color is the result of sea and sun exposure. Lanyards are considered running rigging (not standing).
 
Jimsky said:
The arguments are still going on and basically divided into two groups: against dark and vote for the dark lanyards. Here is my personal observation. All standing rigging is dark because it was tared prior to use and continued tarred while the use. This is mainly why it is a dark color. Running rigging was never tared, there was no such practice, therefore it is a light (cream\grey) color. This color is the result of sea and sun exposure. Lanyards are considered running rigging (not standing).
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I do not agree with you Dima. guy turnbuckles are STANDING rigging
 
Alexander74 said:
I do not agree with you Dima. guy turnbuckles are STANDING rigging
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That is perfectly fine, Sanya. Everyone has their own opinion and that's why the question is still debatable. Lanyards are part of the standing rigging system, correct. But...they are used to balance the tension of the shrouds between the Port and Starboard sides, therefore never tared, or tarred once when they are made. Consequentially are running rigging. ;)
 
Jimsky said:
What color do you\Admiral like most? It is your model make it the way you like. :cool:
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I understand that part. I was just trying to research a bit and see if someone had run across something I haven’t. The more I get into ship building, the more I am intrigued about the historical aspects. I also understand that the Victory and the Constitution aren’t active seagoing vessels at the present and might not accurately portray active vessels of an earlier time. I’m just casting about for more knowledge on the subject. I’m not picking a fight.
 
Vfordyce said:
I understand that part. I was just trying to research a bit and see if someone had run across something I haven’t. The more I get into ship building, the more I am intrigued about the historical aspects. I also understand that the Victory and the Constitution aren’t active seagoing vessels at the present and might not accurately portray active vessels of an earlier time. I’m just casting about for more knowledge on the subject. I’m not picking a fight.
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That's really awesome, Vic. Historical aspects you will definitely research from the various books, and your conclusion may be based on various publications and the sum of those. I use Steele's and Goodman's books as references often.
 
Hello Vic

The ropes used on European ships during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries were subject to wear caused by changing conditions - moisture and dryness. For standing rigging, they were smeared with tar as a means of protection. That made the rope less flexible and not as strong as the white rope used for running rigging, but they lasted much longer. The tar was vegetable tar made from wood, and was brown in colour - it was NOT the black, sticky tar we think of when tar is mentioned in modern terms. This brown colour distinguished the standing rigging of an old ship, lanyards and serving included, from the running rigging. Lanyards and their servings are thus part of the standing rigging.

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Vfordyce said:
I understand that part. I was just trying to research a bit and see if someone had run across something I haven’t. The more I get into ship building, the more I am intrigued about the historical aspects. I also understand that the Victory and the Constitution aren’t active seagoing vessels at the present and might not accurately portray active vessels of an earlier time. I’m just casting about for more knowledge on the subject. I’m not picking a fight.
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Good morning Vic. My 2cents....This is a much debated subject and my leaning is towards the dark brown. What I know for sure is the Victory at Portsmouth is not accurate in many aspects of what it was like back in 1800 and this may also apply to the Lanyards. Great to have choices my friend. Cheers Grant
 
Only one small comment to the color of lanyards etc.
This discussion is so old like there are forums existing - and also the opinions inside the different forums are different.
The same is with the colour of ratlines
Especially because you can find all colours (light and dark) on real ships
At the end it is your taste and decision and I guess, that most master modelers especialy for rigging are doing it according their taste

Take a look at Johanns @archjofo model of his Creole - light lanyards but darker ratlines

La Créole 1827 by archjofo - Scale 1/48 - French corvette

Hello, up to now I have also been represented in other forums. Due to the fact that many excellent model builders also present their building reports here, I have decided to show my building report on the model of the La Créole here in the future. At the end of this thread I will show you a...
shipsofscale.com

another extremely good and realistic (in my opinion) rigging is the Pinnace made by @mati.n - leght lanyards and light ratlines

Pinnace Papegojan 1627 - 1/48 [COMPLETED BUILD]

Thanks Stephan, I see... I 've just described anchor wash system of the vessel where I m employed now.
shipsofscale.com

But I am pretty sure, that I would also like their lanyards if the would make them dark
 
I have seen really dark lanyards on the deadeyes, and light brown ones. Since the lanyards are part of the standing rigging, and not often adjusted, it seems logical that they could be coated with at least one coating of wood tar to protect them. Brown or tan would be my choice over unprotected worn out gray for the lanyards. USS Constitution's lanyards look black, which is different than what you'd find on an early 17th century vessel. Uwe is right about the ratlines being brown or gray. It comes down to this: we rarely know what was on a specific vessel, so we have to make a choice among several possible colors. That's where the personal preference takes over, when the research still doesn't provide a hard answer.

Here's a thought. Look at the model and see of the overall appearance (other than the blue) is one color, say medium brown. If your ratlines or lanyards were the same color, they may blend in too well, making the detail harder to see. A slightly darker or lighter color variation will make them stand out, making the detail easier to see, and the model won't look like it is made in only two colors, brown and blue, but a blend of many.

Example. My first model has an overly large use of the same tones of brown, and although that looks similar to a real ship, it makes details hard to pick out. As models go, it appears rather dark. The light maple on the sides of the ship was used because I had no research source information on that feature at all and went with what Corel instructed. The lanyards for the shrouds were chosen to be light tan, like the rest of the running rigging, and they stand out better. This is the visual effect, it has a lot of contrast to the hull and channels. Note that I chose dark brown for the ratlines, and they blend in more with the shrouds. In actuality, I should have chosen thinner line for both shrouds and ratlines at this scale, but I digress. If you want the lanyards to blend in more, go with a darker brown. You're still within the realm of accurate colors.
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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
I have seen really dark lanyards on the deadeyes, and light brown ones. Since the lanyards are part of the standing rigging, and not often adjusted, it seems logical that they could be coated with at least one coating of wood tar to protect them. Brown or tan would be my choice over unprotected worn out gray for the lanyards. USS Constitution's lanyards look black, which is different than what you'd find on an early 17th century vessel. Uwe is right about the ratlines being brown or gray. It comes down to this: we rarely know what was on a specific vessel, so we have to make a choice among several possible colors. That's where the personal preference takes over, when the research still doesn't provide a hard answer.

Here's a thought. Look at the model and see of the overall appearance (other than the blue) is one color, say medium brown. If your ratlines or lanyards were the same color, they may blend in too well, making the detail harder to see. A slightly darker or lighter color variation will make them stand out, making the detail easier to see, and the model won't look like it is made in only two colors, brown and blue, but a blend of many.

Example. My first model has an overly large use of the same tones of brown, and although that looks similar to a real ship, it makes details hard to pick out. As models go, it appears rather dark. The light maple on the sides of the ship was used because I had no research source information on that feature at all and went with what Corel instructed. The lanyards for the shrouds were chosen to be light tan, like the rest of the running rigging, and they stand out better. This is the visual effect, it has a lot of contrast to the hull and channels. Note that I chose dark brown for the ratlines, and they blend in more with the shrouds. In actuality, I should have chosen thinner line for both shrouds and ratlines at this scale, but I digress. If you want the lanyards to blend in more, go with a darker brown. You're still within the realm of accurate colors.
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I do appreciate your observations, Kurt.
 
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