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L'Orenoque Mamoli 1:100 scale

Here's the last post for the now - all of the frames provide good contact and support for the decks EXCEPT frame 16 - the last frame. Unlike the others, frame 16 installs at an angle - so you need to add material to it's top and fair that material to match the camber of the poop deck frames 13, 14, 15. Once you've got that done you can glue the decks down and start installing filler blocks at the bow and stern before planking.

LO frame 16a.jpgLO frame 16b.jpg

Happy modeling today, shipmates! And for those of us who are also dads, I'll say an early Happy Father's Day!

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck
 
The Gavel said:
Here's the last post for the now - all of the frames provide good contact and support for the decks EXCEPT frame 16 - the last frame. Unlike the others, frame 16 installs at an angle - so you need to add material to it's top and fair that material to match the camber of the poop deck frames 13, 14, 15. Once you've got that done you can glue the decks down and start installing filler blocks at the bow and stern before planking.

View attachment 525716View attachment 525715

Happy modeling today, shipmates! And for those of us who are also dads, I'll say an early Happy Father's Day!

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck
Click to expand...
Good to see that you take your time to align the parts of the base structure, Chuck. It’s looking very promising.
Regards, Peter
 
Peter Voogt said:
Good to see that you take your time to align the parts of the base structure, Chuck. It’s looking very promising.
Regards, Peter
Click to expand...
Peter! Thanks for checking in! Yes, in my own small way I make an effort at precision. I am trying to make art but a Dadaist or abstract expressionist version of L'Orenoque is not what I'm going for. ROTF

Blessings.
Chuck
 
This ALL sounds waaaay too familiar when building Mamoli. The plywood is horrible to fair. And if (as in my case) you use filler blocks to compensate for the dearth
of bulkheads to create a fair curve of the hull, the denseness of the plywood edges of the bulkheads sand at a much different rate than the filler blocks causing a distortion that is a nightmare to control! :eek: These (as well as the problems described in the build log above) appear to be endemic to the brand.
But they do provide a place to start if you choose to build a variety of unusual worthy subjects one may want to model that other kit makers do not provide.
However, if you want to build such worthy craft, you may be just as well off starting from scratch. At least you won't be required to compensate for the many inaccuracies and design flaws built into Mamoli kits that in some ways (IMHO) make them more demanding than scratch building.
(Meaning no disrespect to Mamoli/Duseck and Model Shipways, I can only speak from experience. I would encourage Dusek to revisit some of their products as these issues are brought to light by those of us who choose to embark on one of their kits and revise them accordingly. Clearly, the company has shown a willingness to make improvements over the original Mamoli offerings much to their benefit.)
Cases in point from personal experience, or as revealed in build logs on this forum:
'L'Orenoque"
Yachts "America", "Brittania" and "Puritan"
clipper ship" Flying Cloud"

With all due respect, Peter Gutterman
 
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Peter Gutterman said:
This ALL sounds waaaay too familiar when building Mamoli. The plywood is horrible to fair. And if (as in my case) you use filler blocks to compensate for the dearth
of bulkheads to create a fair curve of the hull, the denseness of the plywood edges of the bulkheads sand at a much different rate than the filler blocks causing a distortion that is a nightmare to control! :eek: These (as well as the problems described in the build log above) appear to be endemic to the brand.
But they do provide a place to start if you choose to build a variety of unusual worthy subjects one may want to model that other kit makers do not provide.
However, if you want to build such worthy craft, you may be just as well off starting from scratch. At least you won't be required to compensate for the many inaccuracies and design flaws built into Mamoli kits that in some ways (IMHO) make them more demanding than scratch building.
(Meaning no disrespect to Mamoli/Duseck and Model Shipways, I can only speak from experience. I would encourage Dusek to revisit some of their products as these issues are brought to light by those of us who choose to embark on one of their kits and revise them accordingly. Clearly, the company has shown a willingness to make improvements over the original Mamoli offerings much to their benefit.)
Cases in point from personal experience, or as revealed in build logs on this forum:
'L'Orenoque"
Yachts "America", "Brittania" and "Puritan"
clipper ship" Flying Cloud"

With all due respect, Peter Gutterman
Click to expand...
Preach brother!

Yes! I learned about the sanding issue the hard way :eek:. One of the main issues with this kit's design is that the modeler is meant to butt planks into the plywood keel or otherwise sand planks so that they disappear into the stem and stern towards the bottom of the keel. It will be interesting to see how it turns out:cool:

Blessings.
Chuck
 
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What ho, shipmates!

Well, here we are again. This kit :eek: :eek: :eek:. Here's the general summary. I have completed the second planking and planked the bulwarks. I started planking the deck. I have figured out the actual armament which were six Paixhans No. 1 shell guns - a/k/a Canon-obusier of 80. I have also determined that the Paixhans gun is almost identical to the US Navy's pre Civil War Gun no 1.

LO Paixhans.jpgLO USN Gun no 1.jpg

And then . . .
And then I took one of my spare IX inch @JerryTodd Dahlgren's on a Marsilly carriage and put it on the deck. I learned that top of the bulwarks just reaches the bottom of the Dahlgren's barrel:eek::eek::eek::eek:. So, even though the Dahlgren (about 12 feet long) is somewhat larger than the Paixhans (about10 feet long) it is clear to me that, YET AGAIN, the bulwarks need to be raised. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

For your reference, the Paixhans guns will be about 1.25 inches long in scale compared with the IX inch Dahlgren which is 1.5 inches long. The good news on this kit, as opposed to Harriet Lane, is that I discovered the problem before I had effectively finished the hull. The bad news is that by raising the bulwark height by 12 - 18 inches - 1/8 - 3/16 scale inches, I may throw off the broadside profile of the hull which is about the only thing the designer got right.

Picks of the guns aboard. The Dahlgren next to the object supplied in the kit. BTW the kit gun is a complete piece of garbage IMHO.
LO Gun exp 1.jpgLO Guns exp 2.jpgLO Dahlgren scale.jpgLO Kit gun scale.jpg

If anyone decides to build this kit you'll want to lower the main deck by 3/16 - 1/4 inches (about 18 - 24 scale inches) to make sure that your guns (relatively accurate - not garbage kit guns) sit properly in their ports. I think the problem for the designer was the lack of information about the actual height of the bulwarks. I haven't found anything giving this information. On the other hand, how could it be that the real ship only had 3 feet tall bulwarks? Someone loses their balance in a choppy sea and is overboard - end of story. Moreover, given the ships actual armament and broadside profile plans, the deck had to be low enough for the guns to sit squarely within their ports. So, with that, shipmates, I am off to the shipyard to make L'Orenoque 12 - 18 inches taller. See you on the other side!

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck
 
The Gavel said:
What ho, shipmates!

Well, here we are again. This kit :eek: :eek: :eek:. Here's the general summary. I have completed the second planking and planked the bulwarks. I started planking the deck. I have figured out the actual armament which were six Paixhans No. 1 shell guns - a/k/a Canon-obusier of 80. I have also determined that the Paixhans gun is almost identical to the US Navy's pre Civil War Gun no 1.

View attachment 530393View attachment 530392

And then . . .
And then I took one of my spare IX inch @JerryTodd Dahlgren's on a Marsilly carriage and put it on the deck. I learned that top of the bulwarks just reaches the bottom of the Dahlgren's barrel:eek::eek::eek::eek:. So, even though the Dahlgren (about 12 feet long) is somewhat larger than the Paixhans (about10 feet long) it is clear to me that, YET AGAIN, the bulwarks need to be raised. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

For your reference, the Paixhans guns will be about 1.25 inches long in scale compared with the IX inch Dahlgren which is 1.5 inches long. The good news on this kit, as opposed to Harriet Lane, is that I discovered the problem before I had effectively finished the hull. The bad news is that by raising the bulwark height by 12 - 18 inches - 1/8 - 3/16 scale inches, I may throw off the broadside profile of the hull which is about the only thing the designer got right.

Picks of the guns aboard. The Dahlgren next to the object supplied in the kit. BTW the kit gun is a complete piece of garbage IMHO.
View attachment 530397View attachment 530396View attachment 530395View attachment 530394

If anyone decides to build this kit you'll want to lower the main deck by 3/16 - 1/4 inches (about 18 - 24 scale inches) to make sure that your guns (relatively accurate - not garbage kit guns) sit properly in their ports. I think the problem for the designer was the lack of information about the actual height of the bulwarks. I haven't found anything giving this information. On the other hand, how could it be that the real ship only had 3 feet tall bulwarks? Someone loses their balance in a choppy sea and is overboard - end of story. Moreover, given the ships actual armament and broadside profile plans, the deck had to be low enough for the guns to sit squarely within their ports. So, with that, shipmates, I am off to the shipyard to make L'Orenoque 12 - 18 inches taller. See you on the other side!

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck
Click to expand...
Are you sure about the scale of the gun? At 1:100 that looks very big...
 
dockattner said:
Are you sure about the scale of the gun? At 1:100 that looks very big...
Click to expand...
Paul! I'm confident about the scale of the gun. The Dahlgren and the Paixhans are similar in size. I was using it to get an idea of what the real guns would look like on deck as opposed to the kit gun. Even a slightly smaller gun will require higher bulwarks.

I will confess that I re-scale things in my mind - equating 1:100 to 1:96. So the Dahlgren is very slightly larger in scale. Given the Paixhans similarity to the USN 8 inch shell gun, I went back to @JerryTodd Jerry's Constellation log. Here's a pic I copied from Jerry's log so you can see the relative sizes. Keep in mind that these are 1/36 scale. I think the low bulwarks and the kit supplied pop-gun add to the impression of the Dahlgren's being wildly out of scale.

1751822686844.png


Blessings.
Chuck
 
The Gavel said:
Paul! I'm confident about the scale of the gun. The Dahlgren and the Paixhans are similar in size. I was using it to get an idea of what the real guns would look like on deck as opposed to the kit gun. Even a slightly smaller gun will require higher bulwarks.

I will confess that I re-scale things in my mind - equating 1:100 to 1:96. So the Dahlgren is very slightly larger in scale. Given the Paixhans similarity to the USN 8 inch shell gun, I went back to @JerryTodd Jerry's Constellation log. Here's a pic I copied from Jerry's log so you can see the relative sizes. Keep in mind that these are 1/36 scale. I think the low bulwarks and the kit supplied pop-gun add to the impression of the Dahlgren's being wildly out of scale.

View attachment 530408


Blessings.
Chuck
Click to expand...
In that case you have a big problem :).
 
Here are some more (poor quality) snaps with a 1:96 scale figure. The help show that the Dahlgren is large - perhaps a tad too large visually?

Here's a sailor on deck. The bulwarks hit him about the height of his waist.

LO scale1.jpg

Here he is with the pop-gun

LO scale2.jpg

With the DahlgrenLO scale3.jpg

From the side

LO scale5.jpg
LO scale4.jpg

In the end I've concluded that the is no way that the pop-gun can be correct. The Dahlgren may be a tad too big, but in either event the bulwarks are too short to accommodate a relatively accurate gun. I hope that my favorite arms merchant (Looking at you Jerry :D) can help me get to the right conclusion.

Blessings.
Chuck
 
I think, realistically, that the bulwarks would be about shoulder height at minimum.
Oooh, yeah, more overall pics. I'm interested in what you've accomplished so far. Even with the sampling available, looks pretty tidy!
 
Dahlgren guns are big! Here's a random period picture of one shipboard with crew:
www.meisterdrucke.us

Federal Sailors Man a 9-inch Dahlgren Gun by American School

Buy Federal Sailors Man a 9-inch Dahlgren Gun by American School as fine art print. ✓ High-quality museum grade. ✓ Perfect reproduction
www.meisterdrucke.us www.meisterdrucke.us
But also came in other sizes. More information and pictures on the Wikipedia page. I just remember being dwarfed by one somewhere when I was a little kid and marveling it was over 100 years old.
en.wikipedia.org

Dahlgren gun - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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I don't see much resemblance of this to an American 8in shell gun of 63cwt
1751851437910.jpeg
The tube isn't an issue with a measured drawing available, but I wonder at the French carriage, and if this drawing is of any value.
1751851731668.jpeg

I did find this image from NAVAL ARTILLERY French navy 1650-1850 that shows a Marsilly type carriage at the bottom:
1751853731974.jpeg
 
I can't help much here as guns just aren't my thing, but theres a pretty good plan of the Marsilly carriage and i believe the same cannon here on the download pdf for the L'Aigle which is pretty much contemporary. They struck me as very tall and unbalanced which won't help with your problem. It seems to me that dodgy bulwark hights are a pretty common problem as i've also come across it a couple of times in other kits. pdf is on this page: https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/127-aigle-yacht-imperial-1857.html PS.. note i've changed my moniker cos it looked like i was shouting at everyone !
 
Peter Gutterman said:
I think, realistically, that the bulwarks would be about shoulder height at minimum.
Oooh, yeah, more overall pics. I'm interested in what you've accomplished so far. Even with the sampling available, looks pretty tidy!
Click to expand...
Pete! Thank you! I am almost finished with the heightening process and plan to post a lot starting later this evening. The height of the bulwarks makes a huge difference in how big the Dahlgren looks!

Blessings.
Chuck
 
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