Soleil Royal - Heller 1/100 Back to work!

[kirill4]

In addition to my remarks above ... as I imagine how to rigg SR model... Instead of trying to use hellers plans and table...
#1 copy and print or keep it digital one of Le Saint Phillipe 1693, L’ambitieux 1680, and Le Francois 1683 plans... I think I prefer 2nd one from this list
#create exell standart rigging tables with automatic calculations - these are free for download on the site ,
one for scaled spars and masts sizes and
another one for scaled rigging lines and blocks sizes with names and position Nos on the drawings ...
# to make 3 or 4 separate rigging drawings/ or print out copies( masts and spars , standing rigging ,running rigging and sails rigging) in the same way as J.Budriot did it for his L’ambitieux 1680/ Jean Boudriot - Le Vaisseau trois-ponts du chevalier de Tourville (1680г.)
And rigg your own model in clear and easy ways ...
And one more... hellers tables ,even You will find all that crasy numeros nos lines correctly, will not help you with assembling another sailing model, but using Anderson book and another books mentioned above, will help a lot! ))
Some mentioned above drwngs

Фото из Облака Mail.ru Album de Colbert

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fransoa

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Jean Boudriot - Le Vaisseau trois-ponts du chevalier de Tourville (1680г.) - 1998

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Папка из Облака Mail.ru The rigging of ships. In the days of the Spritsail topmast 1600-1720 - Anderson

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Трехдечники Турвиля. Редакция 2.3.pdf

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[Dfolgado]

Good day,
Dear E2karnivor,
This is very interesting project!!!
And rising questions about how to rigg SR Hellers model Allways interesting for me...
I love this kit very much and have plans to assemble it somewhere in the future ))...
meanwhile i try to use any opportynities just to watch and understand what and how other our colleques do it ))
From my personal point of vew, idea to use kit righing instruction and kits tables just useless waist of time...
because you still need to read Anderson book first ,in purpose to understand what about hellers rigging diagrams and tables saying In their N'os... giving nos to each lines instead of call them in normal standart ways understandable for everyone... This is something ...don't undestand why designers desided to do it in such strange way ))
But ok ,look, there is funny thing from my point of vew, when You completed reading Anderson book , where he explain purpose and function of every rope , same ropes which are more or less correctly given on Hellers common rigging plan, As I could see...
You will be not needed in these hellers rigging plans and tables given in Nos because all necessary info already contains in his book...And You will knew and understood rigging 17 century , sufficient to do it yourself without hellers tables ...
but better use that Anderson book where he talks about common rigging practice but not that another his book version entirely devoted to the english rigging practice...He has two books devoted 17 century rigging...continental+ english rigging, and another book - only about englishbrigging methods...
I would like to pay your attention to the post 207 by Dfolgado and his recommendations to use ankre,s books in addition to the Anderson book...
and I would like , for more historic accuracy, to mention Albom de Colbert reprint( it could be found in ancre's books shop as well) which need to be used as well - this is one more perfect source of exactly french rigginng of SR period., and it is original source of 17 century ,not modern interpretation..
and one more ankre's publisher , Jean Boudriot - Le Vaisseau trois-ponts du chevalier de Tourville (1680г.)!!!
Where He gives also detailed description of typical france 17 century rigging in diagrams and with normal names of each ropes...
standing,running and sails rigging , all You will find in this book...
together with Anderson book it should work as perfect combination...consider You mentions you like to be perfectly in your job/Heller SR model assembling... ))
Summarise, by my personal opinion, all this 5 sources completely , lets say 200% ,will cover all possible questions which could appears diring hellers SR model rigging...
Wish You all the best!!!
Kirill

You said it all my friend! I really would like to see your works on a new Soleil Royal, that would be just GREAT!

All the best and let’s us know when you start your SR!

 

[kirill4]

Dear Frank, as I understood... if I understood ))
he wants more...not only justclarification hellers table , but anyway....to give interpretation...I think , need to read Anderson first, to get clear idea what is the name and purpose of each particular lines in the heller's tables...?
Than ...may be just need to add names to the hellers lines n's, and it will make tables more clear,easy for reading and understanding?
But again... for me personaly, looks like much easy to make own rigging tables and plans( use existing drawing of ancre/ and Jean Budriot)?

 

[kirill4]

SR kit is the Great kit ... ok, one of the existing Great plastic sailing vessel kits ))
I like it very much even without assembling... and more love to see how our friends create kind of arts when assembling this kit...
And great that every SR model became unic !!!

 

[Frank48]

Dear Frank, as I understood... if I understood ))
he wants more...not only justclarification hellers table , but anyway....to give interpretation...I think , need to read Anderson first, to get clear idea what is the name and purpose of each particular lines in the heller's tables...?
Than ...may be just need to add names to the hellers lines n's, and it will make tables more clear,easy for reading and understanding?
But again... for me personaly, looks like much easy to make own rigging tables and plans( use existing drawing of ancre/ and Jean Budriot)?

Dearest Kirill, what I have is a step by step in Italian and French, knowledge is never too much, there is always something to learn

 

[kirill4]

Dear Frank,
Yes, You are absolutely right...I fully agree !
Wish You All the best!
Kirill
This table in hellers box with SR ... for me - is terrible! I try a few years ago to understand it but failed!!! Too messy and complicated... for me it was much easy to follow conventional way... by the way ... victory hellers kit,rigging instruction - even more complicated!!! I have victory hellers kit 1:100 as china replica, and all instructions here in chineese ! Could You imagine !!! ))))

 

[E2karnivor]

I’m still having trouble to read these instructions like for instance, looking at the blocks for rigging, the have letters like e,f,h,etc (look at pictures) but can’t tell what type, or what size they are. There is no legend or any way to tell witch one is witch. Any one know?

 

[Uwek]

Until now I did not find a list of the bloack sizes - sorry
but I found a different source by a german modeler who translated the complete rigging and belaying points with the correct english term
This might be also helpful:

https://www.jans-sajt.se/contents/Navigation/Galleries/MyModels_Heller_Le_Soleil_Royal_100.htm

There is also an offer by HIS-models for alternative blocks

Soleil Royal - set of blocks for running rigging - HiSModel

Soleil Royal - set of blocks for running rigging. Set of walnut wooden blocks for running rigging of sailing ship model.For model: Le Soleil RoyalKit manufacturer: HellerScale: 1:100Material: walnut woodNumber of blocks: 552Accessory manufacturer: HiSModelComplete description and other...

www.hismodel.com

with additional information of sizes

 

[E2karnivor]

Until now I did not find a list of the bloack sizes - sorry
but I found a different source by a german modeler who translated the complete rigging and belaying points with the correct english term
This might be also helpful:

https://www.jans-sajt.se/contents/Navigation/Galleries/MyModels_Heller_Le_Soleil_Royal_100.htm

There is also an offer by HIS-models for alternative blocks

Soleil Royal - set of blocks for running rigging - HiSModel

Soleil Royal - set of blocks for running rigging. Set of walnut wooden blocks for running rigging of sailing ship model.For model: Le Soleil RoyalKit manufacturer: HellerScale: 1:100Material: walnut woodNumber of blocks: 552Accessory manufacturer: HiSModelComplete description and other...

www.hismodel.com

with additional information of sizes
View attachment 295450

View attachment 295451

Thanks for this information. It’s awesome information. But also what I meant was the question was that if you look at the pictures I sent are highlighted they are blocks numbered with a letter like each onThanks for this information. It’s awesome information. But also what I meant was the question was that if you look at the pictures I sent are highlighted they are blocks numbered with a letter like h1, c1,e1,f1 etc. and I cannot tell by that what exactly is the block that is asking for not only size what type, if it’s a single, a double, a triple, or what. That’s what I’m trying to figure out so I can install the right one for the job that it’s gonna do. I was not planning to use the plastic ones that come with the kit, I was planning to use wooden ones like the ones you sent me, and again thanks for that. But I’m still in need to find out which other ones it’s asking for so I can install the correct ones.

 

[Dfolgado]

Thanks for this information. It’s awesome information. But also what I meant was the question was that if you look at the pictures I sent are highlighted they are blocks numbered with a letter like each onThanks for this information. It’s awesome information. But also what I meant was the question was that if you look at the pictures I sent are highlighted they are blocks numbered with a letter like h1, c1,e1,f1 etc. and I cannot tell by that what exactly is the block that is asking for not only size what type, if it’s a single, a double, a triple, or what. That’s what I’m trying to figure out so I can install the right one for the job that it’s gonna do. I was not planning to use the plastic ones that come with the kit, I was planning to use wooden ones like the ones you sent me, and again thanks for that. But I’m still in need to find out which other ones it’s asking for so I can install the correct ones.

Don’t you have this text in your kit instructions?



You can see here to which blocks corresponds the letters.

I’m not sure if this helps…

 

[E2karnivor]

Don’t you have this text in your kit instructions?

View attachment 295522

You can see here to which blocks corresponds the letters.

I’m not sure if this helps…

No, I don’t have that in my kit instructions or anywhere. Do you have it in English?

 

[E2karnivor]

No, I don’t have that in my kit instructions or anywhere. Do you have it in English?

Also could you take a scan of that page with the cam scanner app?

 

[Uwek]

When I take a look only on this given table you get already a lot of information, when you compare the figures with your drawing and the list in the HIS-offer


you search for c1 and h1


they have the figure 340 and 338


HIS model is naming them WaB-DB2/7 and WaB-VB8

I guess it means

WaB - Wallnut Block
DB2 - Double block
7 - size of 7mm (maybe)

VB8 - Violine block

and you find them in the photos by HISmodel

 

[Dfolgado]

No, I don’t have that in my kit instructions or anywhere. Do you have it in English?

The English instructions are usefulness! That’s your problem, they were all very poorly translated.

What you mean by cam scanner app?

The figures 340 and 338, refers to the plastic sprue number for each block in the kit.

The kit blocks are all too big and out of scale, majority of blocks in SR are from about 1,5mm to 4mm. There are very few of them around 5 or 5,5mm, but not so many! The main stay blocks are triple of about 5,5 mm, and I guess these would be the biggest blocks on board.

Did you saw my wood blocks from Falkonet in a previous post? Best wood blocks in the world, and they have it from 2mm onwards. Smaller than 2mm you have to scratch built them. The bowsprit shrouds blocks that you can see in my posts regarding the bowsprit construction are about 1,8mm scratch built from plastic.

The only alternative from these are Britannia metal blocks from BlueJacket Ship Crafters in the USA.

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

The Anderson book is a generic book about rigging in the spritsail topmast days, and it considers all schools, British and Continental.

The best references to the Soleil Royal rigging in particular are the French Ancre monographs, namely: Le Saint Phillipe 1693, L’ambitieux 1680, and Le Francois 1683.

None of those are 100% representative of the SR, but they are a great source of information. If you follow these, you will end up with a very satisfactory job.

But, as I said before, if you just follow Heller guidelines with some adaptations here and there, you’ll end up with a great piece that will not disappoints anyone.

Just have fun with your SR, that’s the all point of it!

All the best!

Nice reference to Richard Romaniak's excellent model, Duarte!

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Kirill, you are a Prince among men - thank you for your document shares; particularly the Album de Colbert and Chevalier de Tourville. These are invaluable resources!

 

[Dfolgado]

Nice reference to Richard Romaniak's excellent model, Duarte!

Hi Marc, we don’t have many information or photos about Romaniak’s SR, do we? I remember that I only saw a couple of very small photos in his web site..

Do you have some more information about it? I really would like to see more.

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Oh, I suppose I am mistaken, here. I thought you had excerpted a few pages from his Model Shipwright article, which I believe goes back to 1977. I don’t have a copy of it, myself, though.

A few years back, I contacted Richard and had a very nice conversation with him. He is still very active in the modeling community. I asked him whether he might share some pictures from the photo shoot for that article. He did send me pics, but the resolution is very poor. I was hoping to get a better sense for his rigging, but the snaps I have can’t be read for detail, unfortunately.

In my estimation, though, Richard’s model remains one of the best renditions of the Heller kit, ever. He was my first inspiration.

 

[Dfolgado]

Oh, I suppose I am mistaken, here. I thought you had excerpted a few pages from his Model Shipwright article, which I believe goes back to 1977. I don’t have a copy of it, myself, though.

A few years back, I contacted Richard and had a very nice conversation with him. He is still very active in the modeling community. I asked him whether he might share some pictures from the photo shoot for that article. He did send me pics, but the resolution is very poor. I was hoping to get a better sense for his rigging, but the snaps I have can’t be read for detail, unfortunately.

In my estimation, though, Richard’s model remains one of the best renditions of the Heller kit, ever. He was my first inspiration.

I see now Marc!

That model was also a big inspiration for me, but the one in my article played a big role too. The model in the pages that I posted above was build by J. A. Tilley, a great modeler and a big, big inspiration in my youth! I have 3 articles from him published in Scale Models magazine, the first from Soleil Royal (1977), the second from a 110th scale reproduction of the HMS Bounty (1979), and a third a brief presentation of Heller Victory (1980 or 1981).

Mr. Tilley models were fantastic, but he was not a big fan of Heller Soleil Royal, although he did built it back in 1975 I believe. Great article from him on Scale Models.

Does anybody have Richard’s SR article on Model Shipwright? I’d love to read that!

 

[kirill4]

Good day,
Dear friends,
Back to the SR Heller's rigging plans questions...
for better understanding and easy conversion them to readable form, I have found these drwngs from one of our collegue Jan G. ... I don't remember did somebody shown them already?