Soleil Royal - Heller 1/100 Back to work!

[kirill4]

There are some more pictures of rigging with indication of belaying , from the Ancre series...
And sketch of belaying point from one of famous french modeller.
Just for interest and comparision with other rigging diagrams of French vessel of this period Le Francois 1683

 

[Dfolgado]

It looks like we have same opinion about these books!
What size of the blocks did You used for gun tackles?
> 2.0mm ; 2 .0mm; or < than 2 .0mm?
Are they self made?
Looks a little bit too big / slightly out of scale on the picture for this size of gun carriage....but I could easy be mistaken!
I didn't see conventional blocks smaller than 2.0 mm which could be purchased on the market...

Hi Kirill4

The guns blocks are 2 mm for the 18 pounders and 1,5 mm for the 12 pounders.

These blocks are self made from plastic card, please see the photo:


According to the Tourville Three-Decker monographie, for the 18 pounders the blocks lenght is 243 mm, which gives 2,43 mm at 1/100 scale, and for an 8 pounder the block lenght is 202 mm, 2,02 mm at 1/100.



On the kit 18 pounder gun, 2,43 mm looked to big for the tackles blocks, the carriage wheel is 3,2 mm, and I consider a good proportion for the gun blocks to be 2/3 of the wheel diameter, of course the block dimension is related to the diameter of the corresponding ropes, but I found this relation a good starting point.

Considering this I choose:

2 mm blocks for the 18 pounders (the one in the previous post photo)
1,5 mm for the 12 pounders

I think this is not very far way, from reality…

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

That is quite alright, Kirrill. I have downloaded it all, and scanned through all of it. There are many gems, therein, and I can see that Chevalier de Tourville is very much worth the investment for the manuscript in English. Thank you a thousand times!

 

[kirill4]

Just checked again Jan Budriot book , Tourville 3 deckers - I think there contained all necessary information for proper rigging SR model -
He gave all details and sizes of running and standing riggings, relevant blocks size, masts and yards, etc, etc...
Belaying points could be easily found by ourself when necessary...

 

[kirill4]

Dear Dfolgado,
Now I see!!!
Huge jobs to fabricate all those necessary blocks!!!
especialy in size of 1.8 mm!!!...
one time I did myself blocks for my model, including 2 mm... made 50 % of necessary q-ty and exhausted ))
And asked one of collegue to cast all the rest from resin by my master models... thats was great relieve for me! ))
Later on I found very nice and accurate blocks could be purchaised from different models shops up to 2.0 mm in size...and on the finisf of my model I used them as well...together with selfmade...
But smaller . than 2.0 mm still need to be made ourself! ))

I think I will try to use 2.00 mm blocks for making 1.8 mm... I will try to use some thin cap with sand paper rolled inside , attached to the drill and 2mm blocks placed inside, and rotate it for a while thus reducing size of 2.0 mm blocks... This is idea...need to try...

 

[Dfolgado]

Dear Dfolgado,
Now I see!!!
Huge jobs to fabricate all those necessary blocks!!!
especialy in size of 1.8 mm!!!...
one time I did myself blocks for my model, including 2 mm... made 50 % of necessary q-ty and exhausted ))
And asked one of collegue to cast all the rest from resin by my master models... thats was great relieve for me! ))
Later on I found very nice and accurate blocks could be purchaised from different models shops up to 2.0 mm in size...and on the finisf of my model I used them as well...together with selfmade...
But smaller . than 2.0 mm still need to be made ourself! ))

I think I will try to use 2.00 mm blocks for making 1.8 mm... I will try to use some thin cap with sand paper rolled inside , attached to the drill and 2mm blocks placed inside, and rotate it for a while thus reducing size of 2.0 mm blocks... This is idea...need to try...

Yes, it is a very intensive hard work, dealing with these small blocks!

I wonder if I can finish it some day…

I have some 2 mm wood blocks that I bought in a model shop, but they are not very pretty.

I will buy some britannia metal blocks and deadeyes from Bluejacket Ship Crafters in the USA, but the smaller they have is about 2,39 mm!

The ones that come with the kit, I think are tottaly unacceptable, either because of their side, but also their form.

Do you know any other manufacturer that produces this kind of acessories?

 

[kirill4]

Yes, I know a few...
Radek shop is quite good with accesories and blocks...

2-2-3 I Want Ship and accessories

Universal template

www.hismodel.com

and some of Russian model shop... cnc blocks , very accurate in shape and made nice, not like piece of wooden brick as looks some conventional blocks in the kit
I used blocks from this company https://lavka-korabela.ru/categories/bloki
Or this company...they supply same products

Falсonet

falconet-mfg.com

There are a few more adds on this site, main page where Your could find tmem from the list... https://drydockmodelsandparts.com/
but I didn't try it, but they looks pretty nice!!! May be a little bit more expensive than Radek blocks or Falconet... we can use some of it and replicate in resin casting...

 

[kirill4]

I saw You used conventional threads for tackles?
At least on the photo it looks like not made ropes...?

 

[Dfolgado]

I saw You used conventional threads for tackles?
At least on the photo it looks like not made ropes...?

Thanks for the accessories info, I will take a look at them.
Actually, the tackles rope is a made rope composed of 3 strands of cotton 100.
The 3 strands end up with a diameter of 0,2 mm, it is the finest diameter that I can make in my rope machine.
Please take a look at this closer photo, although it is not easy to see:




It is so small, that probably it was simplest just to use plain thread, but even that it is not easy to see it, we know it’s there…

 

[kirill4]

Thanks, now is clear... when not painted,difficult to see thread structure!
I see You prepaired already almost set of the ropes! at least half of them definitely... ))
You managed to find fine cotton thread , no furs!!! Great!
I use Gutermann poliester... didn't find nothing suitable made from cotton...

 

[janos]

Thanks for the accessories info, I will take a look at them.
Actually, the tackles rope is a made rope composed of 3 strands of cotton 100.
The 3 strands end up with a diameter of 0,2 mm, it is the finest diameter that I can make in my rope machine.
Please take a look at this closer photo, although it is not easy to see:
View attachment 252071
View attachment 252073
View attachment 252072

It is so small, that probably it was simplest just to use plain thread, but even that it is not easy to see it, we know it’s there…

I am also using #100 cotton. (DMC Crochet Cotton). The finest I can make of it (3 strands) comes in about 2.7 mm, definitely closer to 0.3mm than to 0.2mm. How come you can achieve 0.2mm (which I would like to make too)? Is #100 not equal to #100?
János

 

[Dfolgado]

Thanks, now is clear... when not painted,difficult to see thread structure!
I see You prepaired already almost set of the ropes! at least half of them definitely... ))
You managed to find fine cotton thread , no furs!!! Great!
I use Gutermann poliester... didn't find nothing suitable made from cotton...

This Heirloom thread that I use is difficult to get, I can only buy it in one place in the USA, but it arrives in Portugal extremely expensive! The Gutermann 100% cotton is also a good solution, I tried it already. The problem is that I cannot get it anymore in Portugal and they only have 50wt thread. Heirloom have both 70wt and 100wt. This makes a big difference.

I thought ropes made with poliester thread become very elastic, this is not the case?

Poliester thread is easier to get…

 

[Dfolgado]

I am also using #100 cotton. (DMC Crochet Cotton). The finest I can make of it (3 strands) comes in about 2.7 mm, definitely closer to 0.3mm than to 0.2mm. How come you can achieve 0.2mm (which I would like to make too)? Is #100 not equal to #100?
János

Hi János,

DMC is a crochet cotton, in a simple way, means that the line is already a rope.
The thread that I use is a sewing thread, this is almost a single strand, you cannot separate the strands like you can with the crochet cotton.

The number 100 is not the same for crochet and for sewing threads, I’m afraid I cannot explain you why not, I could never understood it! but in my sewing thread 100wt a single thread have approximately a diameter of 0,12 mm.

This diameter is fsure nowhere near your 100 DMC crochet line.

I think this is why you are not able to make any rope bellow 2,7 mm. You must use sewing threads that comes basically in 3 sizes, 50wt, 70wt and 100wt, being the 100wt the finer one.
Just for you having an idea, to get 2,7 mm out of a 100wt thread, you must use about some 20 strands or so… you can make a rope 3x20. You can see how real this will look like with this many strands.

I hope this helps!

 

[kirill4]

This Heirloom thread that I use is difficult to get, I can only buy it in one place in the USA, but it arrives in Portugal extremely expensive! The Gutermann 100% cotton is also a good solution, I tried it already. The problem is that I cannot get it anymore in Portugal and they only have 50wt thread. Heirloom have both 70wt and 100wt. This makes a big difference.

I thought ropes made with poliester thread become very elastic, this is not the case?

Poliester thread is easier to get…

Good day,
Gutermann poliester ,which I used ...I can't say it has some kind of elastic...
All my ropes painted entirely before use...after painting thread became such as soft copper wire... very handy for use...



Before I used Guterman thread seria Tera and recently chosed one more type which is more handy for ropes making...



Seria Skala this is like very thin mono thread and in combination of several strands as You explained above, You could get any sizes of the rope You need.
I bought them in 3 sizes, and in spoon of 5000 mtrs, which I think will be life time stock for me ))
On the pictures You could see item number No of each thread and name...
In left corner adress of supplier where I ordered them www.legus39.ru
But I think it could be ordered from any other supplier in Europe as well...

 

[Dfolgado]

Good day,
Gutermann poliester ,which I used ...I can't say it has some kind of elastic...
All my ropes painted entirely before use...after painting thread became such as soft copper wire... very handy for use...
Before I used Guterman thread seria TeraView attachment 252164 and recently chosed one more type which is more handy for ropes making...
Seria Skala View attachment 252165 this is like very thin mono thread and in combination of several strands as You explained above, You could get any sizes of the rope You need.
I bought them in 3 sizes, and in spoon of 5000 mtrs, which I think will be life time stock for me ))
On the pictures You could see item number No of each thread and name...
In left corner adress of supplier where I ordered them www.legus39.ru
But I think it could be ordered from any other supplier in Europe as well...

I see that is easier to get Gutermann in Russia than here in Europe…

What kind of paint do you use for the ropes?

 

[Dfolgado]

Scratch built head support timbers with some decoration:
Not an easy fit…

 

[kirill4]

Looks good!
Nice details! And Good You paid attention on it!
And there must be scrolls added to the stem, in the kit they complitely missed them!
*
For ropes painting I used acrylic artistic paints mixed in random with matt acrylic varnish and some thinner for acrylic paints, to make suitable colors...kind of light ochre/hemp - for running, and something dark/ like a tarred ropes- for standing rigging...
But better to use artistic oil paints of suitable colors, like row umbra and gold ochre deluted in teack oil and white spirit... same colors- bright for running rigging and dark - for standing...
This Mixture of Oil paints for the rope, after polimerisation became much more stable and well sticked to the thread than acrylic paints... later could be easily apart from the thread if You need to move it intensively trough the blocks or somewhere else...
This stuff of oil paints, teack oil and white spirit need to be mixed in jar...1-2 litres...and rope need to be soaked in this mixture, than excessive wett removed by pulling it trough cotton gloves or rags and than suspended somewhere for drying for couple of days...

 

[Dfolgado]

Which GOLD is best?

 

[Jimsky]

I like both, but the one on the left I like more. However, the right is more 'gold' than the left, IMHO.

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

I prefer the deeper gold tone on the right, and I think it also more appropriate to the times.