VOC ship The Prins Willem (scale 1:75) Year 1651

Ondras71 said:
Hello Steff. Very nicely made wrapped and unwrapped blocks!! Thumbs-Up

As Mati suggested, here is a link to photos of a replica of Batavia. Informative ..

Photos replica VOC ship Batavia 1628

www.modelships.de www.modelships.de

And here I found an interactive tour on board Batavia ..
www.360cities.net

On the deck of Batavia ship, Lelystad, the Netherlands 360 Panorama | 360Cities

360° panorama photo from by Vil Muhametshin. Batavia was a ship of the Dutch East India Company (VOC). She was built in Amsterdam in 1628, ...
www.360cities.net www.360cities.net
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The 360 tour I did see before. Love that. The pictures are great, never seen them. I wish I could visited the ship. Maybe in the future. My healt doesn't allow to drive more than an hour. Hope it will be better in a year.
It is 5½ hour 2 way drive from the place where I live.
 
Very good result - I love your tool.....
maybe once you or @Giampy65 have some time
-> please write a short tutorial with small expalanation of the tools and the working steps to get this great results
 
Uwek said:
Very good result - I love your tool.....
maybe once you or @Giampy65 have some time
-> please write a short tutorial with small expalanation of the tools and the working steps to get this great results
Click to expand...
good idea. Soon when I make the next mouse, I'll take better pictures and make an extra threat.
I'm waiting on a electric motor and a few parts to make it automatic. The parts mostly come from Aliexpress about 35 euro total.
 
Everyboby thanks for the likes and reply. They're welcome :)

I'm working now the plans out for the rigging. I want the bowsprit ready with al the blocks needed. When I starting rigging I want to be fully prepared.
But I have a question about I know only the German and Dutch words.
In Dutch:
Spaanse toppenant
Trens

see picture from the book "The ships of Abel Tasman" (found it somewhere on the www)
I don't have the book yet.

hoving.jpg

These are installed on my Spanish Galleon, I used the book "Peter Kirsh Die Galeonen" for the rigging, and in that book there where these mentioned

IMG_0654.JPG

But now I want to mount them if they where on the ship. But correct in scale.

Maybe @Ab Hoving can tell me more (sorry for asking your use of time)

My question is about in what time these where use on the ships (I think around 1650 but I could be wrong)?


Thanks for the help

Edit:
Some answers I already found, source the book "The ships of Abel Tasman"

What is the English name?
"Spaans Toppenant" in English "standing lift" and
"Trens" in English "spritsail garnets"

And how thick where the ropes for the "Trens" and the "Spaans toppenant"
the spritsail garnets are 40 mm. in diameter in my scale 0,55 mm.
the standing lift are 32 mm. in diameter in my scale 0,4 mm.

Only question remains if they where fitted on the PW in 1651.
 
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There is much unsure about the rigging of the spritsail in the 17th century. Certain however is that the yard remains under a 90 degrees angle towards the bowsprit. So the yard did not move in the same direction as the other yards. Harlands book shows it here:
Schermafbeelding 2021-05-02 om 08.33.53.png

To keep the yard sqaure to the bowsprit a socalled 'spaanse toppenant' was installed. The translation is 'standing lift', because it consist of deadeyes, connected with a laniard: see my drawing in #146.
Apart from this lift there is another lift, making it possible to store the yard parallel to the bowsprit (after loosening the standing lifts). In situations where a spritsail topsail is installed, they were mostly replaced by the topsail sheet.
Moving the yard tips up and down was done with braces, running to the fore stay, and on top of that by 'trijssen' (translation 'spritsail yard lift'), actually a doubling of the braces. I'm not sure why this was done and I have my doubts about the translation of the word. Trijssen were no lifts, they were actually braces.
As I said, much is unclear about the use of all these ropes, no wonder that in later years (some say after 1680) the trijssen disappeared.
Sorry not to be any clearer, but this is what I found about the use of the spritsail. As it was only a 'steering sail' nobody will take it ill of you when you show the spritsail on your model in furled condition.
Ab
 
Ab Hoving said:
As it was only a 'steering sail' nobody will take it ill of you when you show the spritsail on your model in furled condition.
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Thanks Ab for your explanation. It certainly helped me to understand all these rigging on the bowsprit. And where to search. I was reading the book of Harland about the furled sails. And I was thinking to do that to the lower sails, like some pictures in the book shows.

The 2 books where I till now found info are:
Anderson R.C. The rigging of the ships in the days of the spritsail topmast 1600-1720 Chapter IX page 210 - 230 Running rigging of the bowsprit. But as I mentioned before it is difficult to read and to understand for me. But with your explanation it makes more sense.
Lees, J. The masting and rigging of English ships of war 1625-1860 page 99 - 105. A little but easier to read.

But no explanation about why they are on the ships. But now I understand, thanks for that. I started now reading Harland J. Seamanship in the age of sail page 28, 29, 86 and 87 he called them Spanish lifts :) All those differed names makes it not easy to find the info you search for.
 
Ab Hoving said:
Another very helpful book in Dutch is J. Van Beylen’s Zeilvaartlexicon.
Recommended!
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thanks another book on my wishlist :) till now I was looking to the last pages of Mondfeld. But that is actually no help at all

Madhatter said:
Your work is inspirational. After a 40 year hiatus I am going to get BACK TO WORK!
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Thanks, glad that I'm having a little part in helping you back in this beautiful hobby.
 
gammoning blocks. The drawings of Corel or the book of Ketting don't mentioning them. Even Anderson says they are in the late 17th century mounted.
But the model of the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam shows this

gammoning block.jpg

That looks to me like a gammoning block, I guess 3 to 5 holes

Another thing I discovered on this model are the Tacks. These go in the model through a hole in the bulkhead and not like the drawings through the fore castle rail, belayed on a small staghorn. The only question that rises is when it went through the bulkhead, where it would be belayed. At the small staghorn behind the fore castle rail, but the they go through the dek up. Or are they belayed indoor on a small staghorn like the thack on the victory.

halsen fok.jpg
Naamloos-1.jpg

If somebody knew the answer, he is welcome.
 
Another problem
In the museum is the model that Herman Ketting used for his book. But he uses pictures that are not from the museum model.
This picture is from the book
IMG_1612.JPG
and this coloured picture from the museum
galjoen.jpg
Tell me the difference

These are not the same model, in my opinion ????? Does anybody have taken pictures from this model in the museum of can tell me more?
below the picture in the book was the text "PRINS WILLEM 1978 GALJOEN"

here a lot of differences marked
IMG_1612a.jpg
The " betingbalk" I think the bitt is the problem for me. Is this normal installed?

I discovered that the picture in the book is a model that is place in another museum build in 1978

Collectie | Fries Scheepvaart Museum

Bekijk de collectie van het Fries Scheepvaart Museum online. Hier vind je de volledige collectie, ook alles uit het depot.
friesscheepvaartmuseum.nl friesscheepvaartmuseum.nl
 
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Great observations, you can really play the game find the differences between the two images. I am afraid, but you've missed the most important difference - the absence of the crew member! :D .... just kidding.

On a serious note, It is hard to judge and find the correct way from the model as we have no idea who and how this model was built. We have an expression: a model from a model. Just pick one model, the most you trust, and make it a reference, IMHO :cool:
 
Jimsky said:
We have an expression: a model from a model. Just pick one model, the most you trust, and make it a reference
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That is true, and I will do that. Just a doubt about the betingbalk or bitt in english the rounded wooden beam with prins. Is that always present?

The person who build a big part of this ship mounted this beam, I think it's wrong.
 
The riddle of the model with the crew member is easily solved. My predecessor Herman Ketting built a second model for the museum, depicting the ship in another stage of its existence. He built it as he thought it was before it was adaptated for its service in the First Anglo-Dutch war (1652-1654): with the forecastle deck still installed and less gun ports than the original. He also put a complete rigging on it, in contradiction to the original, which has only topsails and no topgallants. The museum uses his model for loans, rather than risking the loss of the original.
As to belaying locations, let me give you an advice: look for logical locations to belay your ropes. Museum models are seldom untouched, so many members of the museum staff had an opportunity to fiddle around with them. Select your sources carefully.
 
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