VOC ship The Prins Willem (scale 1:75) Year 1651

[Steef66]

As if the guys were wrapped around the sufers in different directions

Yes the second from the left is wrong. But the other side got one wrong too. I noticed this to late. And to much work to start over.

 

[Alexander74]

Yes the second from the left is wrong. But the other side got one wrong too. I noticed this to late. And to much work to start over.

Stefan, not a lot of work. But of course it's up to you to decide. You just need to bandage the lanyards and unfold the ufers in the wrong places.

 

[Steef66]

Stefan, not a lot of work. But of course it's up to you to decide. You just need to bandage the lanyards and unfold the ufers in the wrong places.

Not the work. But all is already glued in place. I think I do more harm then good. I can live with it.

 

[Steef66]

Lined out the shrouds.
Can't find anywhere where exact the futtock staff will be placed. So I looked to a lot of models and paintings and give it that place.


Lucky I don't have to mount the carterpins. Because they where on Dutch ships only see in the late 17th century. The model of the PW in the museum has them, but it seems that that ship was to modern rigged on that point. The William Rex is on of the models that has them, and this ship is of 1692 or in that time.
scale 1/75 is also a little bit to small to show them.
The Dutch ship also don't have eye splices on the ratline ends in the 17th century.

 

[Steef66]

Question? Maybe @mati.n , @kirill4 or @Ab Hoving or somebody else has the answer.

Ratlines go they parallel to the waterline or parallel to the channels?
In the picture of the post before I did it to the channels.

In paintings you see them parallel to the channels but also to the waterline. In discriptions often to the waterline. But sometimes following to the waterline is not a option because the channel isn't.

My feeling says to the channel, this is looking good, but not always in the top.

 

[Ab Hoving]

I would say parallel to the waterline. You don't want to slide towards one end of the ratline, just because it may look better to follow the channels.

 

[mati.n]

Hi Stephan,

I was always wondering about the same.
Then looking at paintings, plans, replicas... you can see them in both variants
So it was great help... I know

I think still... parallel to waterline make more sense... agreeing with Ab... feet won't slip... to the side.
Ok... channels didn't have such a heavy angle... but still climbing on the wet ropes angled to match channel angle probably could create more harm or cause problems.
That's how I did on my model... parallel to waterline... ok... maybe there is a slight angle... but just a little bit

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Steef66]

Thanks Ab and Matt.

My first thought was the same. to the waterline. On the foremast shrouds this is not a problem with these kind of ships. but the main and mizen mast shrouds ? looking to the drawing of the Vasa you can see how great the angle is


but when I look to severall paintings of the masters of that days it seems that they follow the channels or how Mat is saying with a slight angle.
For example


Yesterday I saw the movie Master and Commander. And there the sailor men running up the ratlines. And went up on the fore and aft side of the shroud. The ratlines bowed deeply under their feet. That's why I asking this question.
So it is logical to me too to have them horizontal to the waterline. Or as Matt says a slight angle.

 

[Steef66]

The problem is on the Prins Willem on the mizen. The foremast is almost horizontal and the main has a slight angle. And yes Matt the paintings are no great help.

 

[Steef66]

I studied the drawings of the rigging that the rijksmuseum of the Prins Willem has. And I noticed that the futtock is parallel to the waterline and the ratlines start parallel below the futtock down to the channels to end up parallel to the channels. ??

 

[mati.n]

I've noticed the same thing... also shrouds around the futtock has this visible stretch... I guess to have enough space for the feet and futtock shrouds.
So futtock is adjusting distance between shrouds... and they are not so compressed under the top... it's quite few of them over there

I would go still with ratlines parallel to waterline... with slight angle but more or less futtocks parallel to the tops.
Even with main channel angled you should be good with ratline tight to the first shroud on upper seizing and last one just right above lanyard deadeye.
I guess it will still create little angle... but should be all right


On top of that... top shrouds ratlines are parallel to waterline... so you will have all of them more or less same way... and not lower angled to channels upper parallel to waterline...

...by the way... I see you have ratlines stencil for whole shrouds... I did ratlines bit different.
I positioned 1st ratline way I wanted... then I just use piece of plastic card (strip) for distance jig between ratlines
I did second ratline... measure and adjust distance using this plastic jig... and then 3rd, 4th... etc...
Piece of cardboard stencil covering all shrouds from the back for me doesn't work because it's obstructing my movements with tweezers.
...it's just my way...

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Steef66]

I would go still with ratlines parallel to waterline... with slight angle

yeah I think your right, just find the middle way. Going from parallel on the futtock to the waterline to parallel to the channel makes a messy look.

I tried with a piece of bankcard. not my thing. The paper I use is 200 grams paper and like thin cardboard. fixed it to the top and on the channel. Works for me.

This is how far I'm on the Mizzenmast. (is it Mizenmast or Mizzenmast?)


pictures show things that you don't see in real. Need to replace at least two ratlines on the last picture.

Thanks everybody for the input.

 

[kirill4]

Good day Stephan,
Sorry I placed comment about ratlines in wrong thread ))
Wanted to ask You, what happened with your blocks stropping... looks like strope ropes need to be two times thinner in diam. than your choice?
Now strope of some ordinary block looks even thicker than shroud?

 

[Steef66]

Yes, these are the little things I have to learn by doing. For me is this kind of rigging new and I do a lot of experience while doing it. Already make better ones for the main mast.
A lot of things are a first time in this hobby for me.
And macro pictures are more aggresive then the real look.

 

[kirill4]

Oh, I see...
as I remember... in Anderson's book "Rigging...."
He mentioned proper thickness of various ropes regarding to their purpose... or it was in Hoeckel...?
I tnink there was link somebody posted early to rigging calculator...to find necessary information of various rope thickness and avoid confusion...
Or at least it should be done visual proportionaly to the size of the relevant block

 

[Steef66]

One side of the Mizzen is ready. Incl. the trunks on the shrouds.


pfff. my next ship I build will be at least scale 1/50 Working with wire of 0,10 or 0,25 is small. you can hardly hold it or see it.

 

[Steef66]

next the main mast

 

[kirill4]

Stephan Good day!
Nice! ))
Good progress!

 

[Steef66]

Stephan Good day!
Nice! ))
Good progress!

Thanks Kirill. And I know were it went wrong with the block stropping. Every piece got another diameter and I used the rope that was supposed to use on the main tackle for the mizzen. Because in first I was start on that mast. Stupid but I learned and next time it wil be perfect. I made an excell file were all the diameters of all the ropes are auto calculated. I posted it a while ago.

 

[Steef66]

The main stay and the small parts for the main side tackles are done. now I just have to put everything together.