AKERBOOM 1681 after Ab Hoving nominally 1/66 but drawings in 1/64

[Iterum]

Hello my dear friends, I have got a question after looking in my downloaded files. And I would like to do this before putting my foot into something unpleasent:


These bars below the deck - what are they for? I do think keeping the deck's card in a curve, isn't it?



So are they just bent card board strips or are they curved cut cardboard (with the arc on the top)?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Ab Hoving]

I reinforced the camber of the deck by glueing one or more 3 mm thick 'deck-beams' underneath. So the beam was cut from 3 mm card and it secured the camber of the deck.
The deck existed of 1 mm card with on top a layer of white 160 gr paper. If glued together with the chosen curve it almost stays that way itself without beams.

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Thanks Ab and Christian, I had thoughts in my head telling* me about laminating my own "ply-cardboad" by pileing layers a top each other - as you both suggested. And so the thinner material will be much cheaper to purchace, too.
View attachment 438406
On your hull, Ab, everything looks very light and easy to be build - what is your trick!?

Thanks for the hint!

_______
*No - it does not was the heating's talkaktive radiator...

It seems to me that the beauty of Ab's process is that it's light, and because so, it is quick. There is a lot of surface area for glue joints - even in a light construction - that provide tremendous structural rigidity, at the stage of applying the underlying cardboard "skin" to the bulkheads. Or so it appears to me. I have no experience, here.

 

[Ab Hoving]

It seems to me that the beauty of Ab's process is that it's light, and because so, it is quick. There is a lot of surface area for glue joints - even in a light construction - that provide tremendous structural rigidity, at the stage of applying the underlying cardboard "skin" to the bulkheads. Or so it appears to me. I have no experience, here.

In all honesty: the truth about my process is that I stole it all together from our East-European friends. If you really want to spledid methods, that's where you have to look.

 

[Rodolphe]

Hello Iterum,
Just found your very interesting thread. It maybe is too late to be helpful, but I have copies of a contract for a ship of 140 feet from the Admiralty of Amsterdam of 1665. This is the contract used for building the second program of 24 ships. As you know Akerboom was part of the first program of 24 ships. Here are the first lines of that contract of 1665:



If you want a transcript of the full contract, I can post it here. Just let me know.
R.

 

[Iterum]

Hello my dear friends,

today I was able to arrange a bit of progress with the centerboard:




I added the points -below and right the 12000 and left Hand above the VI number - for the slots of the moulds by using a pair of scratch compasses to get precise marks (in dark green) for cutting:


By the way I started to pick up the first real measurements from the transom for the construction of the prefabricated parts to be fixed there onto the hull:


That's all for today from the card yard.

 

[Iterum]

Hello Iterum,
Just found your very interesting thread. It maybe is too late to be helpful, but I have copies of a contract for a ship of 140 feet from the Admiralty of Amsterdam of 1665. This is the contract used for building the second program of 24 ships. As you know Akerboom was part of the first program of 24 ships. Here are the first lines of that contract of 1665:

View attachment 440003

If you want a transcript of the full contract, I can post it here. Just let me know.
R.

That would be very very helpfull, Rodolphe! In particular when we do get the list of the 24 ships' names, too. So this will make it possible to search for fitting WvdV drawings with the good intention to build realistic Dutch ships of the 80-years war

Wounderfull handwriting by the way.

 

[Iterum]

It seems to me that the beauty of Ab's process is that it's light, and because so, it is quick. There is a lot of surface area for glue joints - even in a light construction - that provide tremendous structural rigidity, at the stage of applying the underlying cardboard "skin" to the bulkheads. Or so it appears to me. I have no experience, here.

Thanks Marc for your point - I will Go slowly step by step. By doing so it will become bad enough so I do hope the "rescue" my AKERBOOM model by scratching the plastic layer into grain/texture and the colouring of it into something more "woody"...

We'll see.

 

[Rodolphe]

Hello Iterum,
Glad you still consider the contract of 1665 has a value for your project. Here is the transcript.

Forma van het besteck om te maecken
een schip van oorloge ten dienste vant collegie
ter admiraliteijt residerende binnen amsterd:
langh 140 voet, wijt 37 voet holl 14 1/2 voet
ende 7 1/4 voet daerboven schans & back 6 1/2
voet hoogh aen boort

Vooreerst sal de kiel langh wesen 119 voet van 2 a 3 stucken
de lassen 9 1/2 voet, dick 23 duijm, viercant int midden, voor diep
21 duijm achter 19 duijm de stevens 16 1/2 duijm dick breet
naer den eijsch

De voorsteven hoogh inde winckel 26 voet & valt 18 voet
De achtersteven hoogh inde winckel 25 voet & valt 3 voet
De heck balck 17 1/2 duijm viercant lanck 26 1/2 voet
De rantsoenhoutten dick 11 duijm breet 2 1/4 voet
De worpen na behooren
De huijt van goede 4 duijms eijcke plancken tot aen het onderste
barckhout toe
De spant barckhouten onder de schut poorten dick 7 1/2 duijm
breet 15 duijm
De vullingh daer het lijffhout in geslooten is dick 5 duijm
Het darde spant barckhoutten dick 6 1/2 breet 13 1/2 duijm
De breegangh dick 3 1/2 duijm
Het vierde spant barckhoutten dick 5 1/2 breet 12 1/2 duijm
De vullingh daer het bovenste waterbort ingeslooten is dick
3 duijm
Het raehout dick 5 duijm breet 9 1/2 a 10 duijm
De vullingh ondert raehout dick 2 1/2 duijm voort raehout
4 3/4 hoogh dat de poorten vant canon ruijm onder deur connen
comen

Een zet gangh achter en voor op het rae hout, dick onder 2 duijm
met goede vertuijninghs bladen dick 1 duijm met de halss
masten naer den eijsch
De buijck stuck op de kiel dick 12 duijm
Het hout op het boeijsel dick 8 1/2 duijm
Op de scheergangen 7 1/2 duijm voor de stutten naer behooren
Het colswijn dick 9 1/2 duijm breet 2 1/2 voet
De wagers van Hamb: plancken off Coninghsb: plancken
van het colswijn tot aende kimt wager toe dick 4 duijm
Voor 3 gangen kimwagers dick 4 1/2 duijm daerboven aende onderste
balckwager toe te wageren met 3 1/2 duijms plancken
De onderste balckwagers dick 5 1/2 duijm te weten 2 onder mal-
canderen, d'eene breet 2 1/2 voet d'ander 2 voet
De balcken int ruijm dick 15 duijm wijt van malcander 3 1/2 voet
aen ijder ent vande balcken een goet gewossen knie daerin dat
de nebben 4 a 5 bouts connen zijn
Int ruijm om d'andere balck een katte spoor met 2 sitters,
bij de groote mast 2 katte spooren met 4 zitters
Een goet focke spoor met 6 banden met haer zitters te verscher-
ven 5 a 6 voet
Aende worpen die aent spiegel zijn, aen ieder zij een goet knie,
oock mede aen het broeck stuck & aent heck wel voorsien
met 2 sware knies
Alle het inhout onder de wagers te verscherven niet minder
als 4 a 5 voet

Om d'andere balck een goede steunder, langh van de kimwager
tot de bovenkant van de bovenetsbalck, met een bout daeronder
& boven geslooten
Het onderste lijffhout dick 5 1/2 duijm breet 2 1/4 voet
met goede steunders clossen tusschen de steunders dick 10 duijm
aen boort
Den overloop met 3 goede ribben & 2 carvielhouten tusschen
ijder balck, te weten aen ijder zijde
Den overloop gestreecken met 4 gangen eecke plancken aen
boort dick 3 duijm
Voort met 3 duijms greene plancken, het spint wel affgehou-
wen, die droogh zijn
De zetgangen op het lijffhout dick 4 duijm op de hooghte
vande poorten
De bovenste balckwager dick 3 1/2 duijm breet 2 1/4 voet, te wa-
geren tusschen beijden met 3 duijms hout, dat goet is tzij
greene off eijcke tot besteeders believen
De bovenste balcken dick 11 1/2 duijms ijder ent met een goet
knie
Het bovenste lijffhout dick 4 1/4 duijm, de zet gangen naer
behooren
Tusschen ijder balck 3 ribben met 2 carviel houtten aen
ijder zij

De deelen daer het bovenet mede gestreecken is dick 2 duijm
het spint wel affgehouwen & die droogh zijn
De scheerstocken met het tralijwerck dick 6 duijm breet 13
duijm
De balcken vande schans & back dick 7 1/2 duim breet 8 a 9 duijm
boven toegestreecken met drooge deelen dick 2 duijm
de waterborden & zetgangen dick 2 1/2 duijm
De hutten toegestreecken met 1 3/4 duijms deelen die het spint
wel affgehouden & droogh zijn
Soo veel schutpoorten te maecken als de Heeren besteeders
zullen gelieven
Groote hut verbij de besaensmast
Voort verbij de cluijssen met 2 goede banden, een slick back & sijn
toebehooren
De schans verbij de groote mast met een back van vooren
zoo langh dat de boot bequaemelijck kan ingeset werden,
met zijn behoorlijck tralijwerck, als mede tot de schans
De balcken van de back & schans wel geslooten ijder ent met
een goet knie
Oock in de hut van gelijcke
Een goet galjoen met zijn toebehooren, met een goede betingh-
balck, geslooten met knies

Onder een goede betingh met zijn speenen, die onder aende
banden geslooten zijn, mede 2 goede knies voor de betingh
Een groote & kleijne spil met haer pallen & spooren
Voorts te leveren het hout tot alle het beeltwerck
Het schip te iseren met bouts tusschen den duijm & vijff quartier
duijm, van onderen tot aende overloop toe & dan voort naer
boven beijde een quart duijm minder, mede dit zelve
schip te spijckeren, binnen & buijten van het water tot boven
toe zonder eenige houte nagels daer toe te mogen gebruijcken
Voorts te brauwen van binnen & buijtenen ende van onderen
tot het barckhout toe wel te clameijen
Mede een goet roer met sijn toebehooren & dat ganghbaer te
maecken
Combuijs, cabel ruijm, broot camers, kruijt camers, koijen
schots & alles te stellen zoo dat tot een goet oorlogh schip
vereijscht wert
Uijtgeseijt beelthouwers werck kistemaecker werck,
schilderen, het iserwerck tot dit schip behoorende
loot gieters coperslagers glasemaeckers ende
metselaerswerck zal moeten comen ten lasten vande
Heeren besteeders
Ende off in dit besteck eenige dingen waren vergeten, ende
notans int schip noodich gemaeckt mosten wesen, dat zal
den aennemer gehouden zijn te maecken ende te leveren, zonder
daervoor eenich buijten werck te mogen eijsschen ofte genieten

If you need help with the translation of this contract, just ask.
I wil get back to you with the list of the eight ships built by the Admiralty of Amsterdam for the first program of 24 ships, and the list of the eight ships built by the Admiralty of Amsterdam for the second program of 24 ships.
I am sure you mean the ships of the second English war instead of the ships of the eighty years war.
R.

 

[Ab Hoving]

Nice Rodolphe,
May I ask where you found this text?

 

[Iterum]

Hello Iterum,
Glad you still consider the contract of 1665 has a value for your project. Here is the transcript.
(...)

If you need help with the translation of this contract, just ask.
I wil get back to you with the list of the eight ships built by the Admiralty of Amsterdam for the first program of 24 ships, and the list of the eight ships built by the Admiralty of Amsterdam for the second program of 24 ships.
I am sure you mean the ships of the second English war instead of the ships of the eighty years war.
R.

Thanks a lot, Rodolphe, is there a list of the names of these 24 ships? For example her?



...or should we think about all the 56-64 gun ships by the Amsterdam Admirality distinguished by the number of gun ports?

A question a side:

Here the D7P (model for the rebuild in 11duimen = 1voet) with a blue painting....


...here the AKERBOOM's green used by Ab.

What colour reference is right - or both?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Rodolphe]

Thanks a lot, Rodolphe, is there a list of the names of these 24 ships? For example her?

Hello Iterum,
Here is the promised list of the 16 ships built by the Admiralty of Amsterdam for the two programs of 24 ships. There is a printing error in the list: 'Maesdorp' should read 'Waesdorp'.



For the colour reference I include a picture of Nooms of Spiegel built by the Admiralty of Amsterdam in 1662, a picture of Van de Velde of Commeetstar of 1665, and a picture of Van de Velde of Gouden Leeuw built by the Admiralty of Amsterdam in 1666.





What do you think the right colour is?
R.

 

[Rodolphe]

Nice Rodolphe,
May I ask where you found this text?

Hello Ab Hoving,
I just noticed I missed your question. I found the contract for the ships of 140 feet of 1665 in the National Archives in The Hague, the Netherlands. The contract for the ships of 150 feet of 1665 can be found there as well.
R.

 

[Ab Hoving]

Thank you. In Witsen's book you can find contracts for a 140 feet warship from 1664, another one for 'de Vrede' (1669) of 160 feet and a third one for a 170 feet long three decker (1667). For a 150 feet long ship he gives a 'shopping list' with the required wooden parts.
All nice stuff for study.

As to the color of the upper works: I'm far from an expert in this matter, suffering from a light color blindness, But the recipe I use is: take some blue paint (for instance Humbrol 109), add a little bit of black and a touch of yellow. Using paintings as a source may be a bit tricky, as some colors the painter used can have undergone changes as a result of chemical influences in mixed paint.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rodolphe]

Hello Iterum,
The Boijmans Van Beuningen museum in Rotterdam has a drawing of Akerboom by Van de Velde which might by helpful for your project. Here it is.

And a detail.

R.

 

[Rodolphe]

Thank you. In Witsen's book you can find contracts for a 140 feet warship from 1664, ...
All nice stuff for study.

As to the color of the upper works: ...

Hello Ab Hoving,
Yes, these contracts in Witsen's book sure are 'nice stuff for study'. They for example give important information about the shape of the main frames of these warships. Information that is lacking in the contract of the 140'x37'x13,5' warship you posted here, and in the contract of the 140'x37'x14,5' warship of 1665 I posted here. Witsen's contracts show how flat the main frames of the Dutch warships of this period were.
Witsen's contract for the 140'x34'x15' warship of 1664 for example mentions a lift of only 8 inches over a width of 22 feet.
May I ask how you decided on the shade of green you used for the upper works of your Akerboom?
R.

 

[Ab Hoving]

Your observation of the flat shape of the bottoms of Dutch warships up to at least the 70s is accurate. Something must have changed the design in the last decades of the century or the first ones of the next, because all the drawings that gradually begin to appear in these years show much more V-shaped ships. I guess it must have something to do with speed. But who am I?

As to the colors of my Akerboomr: as I said I am hardly an expert on colors, but this 'recipe' came from my Artitec friend Herbert Tomesen. I trust his sense of color better than mine. If he says green was not really used for the upper works, I simply believe him.

 

[Rodolphe]

Hello Iterum,
Here is a picture of the contemporary model they keep in the STAM-museum in Gent, Belgium.

As you may notice a lot of the sculptures on the model resemble those of the Van de Velde drawing of Akerboom, so I hope this helps.
R.

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

That is an extraordinary model, Rodolphe! Is the model contemporary to the 17th C, or by a modern builder? The carved work is so fine.

 

[Herman]

That is an extraordinary model, Rodolphe! Is the model contemporary to the 17th C, or by a modern builder? The carved work is so fine.

It is a contemporary model. Earlier our member olympic1911 posted some pictures of this interesting model in his building log of the Hohenzollernmodell.

Hohenzollernmodell 1660-1670 Scale 1/21

Yes, there has been some progress in the past weeks. I've been meaning to post an update for a while now. I am currently in England enjoying a weeks holiday with my family. Will be back on Friday and will be happy to update the thread after my return. Ok - good to hear So we wish a beautiful...

shipsofscale.com