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Once again, a few well considered questions has unlocked a treasure trove of specific knowledge and personal experience. I love this forum 
Pete
Pete
BALDER, Vlaardingen Herring Lugger from 1912, scratch build scale 1:50 Plate-On-Frame
- Thread starter Peter Voogt
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Thanks for the offer, Maarten. I’ll keep it in mind if my idea does not work. You will see the result or I let you know to send a part.
Regards, Peter
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Thanks for the post and the wiki-link. When you open the Dutch version, you will found by the examples this:
Kerkschip Sint-Jozef - Wikipedia
Interesting stuff.
Regards, Peter
I diluted some wood filler with water so that it could be applied with a brush and still flowed. Colored with some gray. Then covered all the foam pieces:
Now looks more like a cement filling.
Remember that you do not see this view on the Balder itself. At most as a floor. It is not applied tightly there, such as the floor of your home.
I still have to touch up a few spots of paint, but I wanted to show you this 2nd attempt.
With a photo with reference:
Just to show you what we're talking about. The papillary lines on my thumb are almost as big as.........
Regards, Peter
Now looks more like a cement filling.
Remember that you do not see this view on the Balder itself. At most as a floor. It is not applied tightly there, such as the floor of your home.
I still have to touch up a few spots of paint, but I wanted to show you this 2nd attempt.
With a photo with reference:
Just to show you what we're talking about. The papillary lines on my thumb are almost as big as.........
Regards, Peter
Yes sir, I believe you have captured the look of concrete.
Thanks guys. The outcome is indeed better. I'm not completely satisfied yet. I miss the ends of the plates of the wrangles between the keel and keelson, which I now have accentuated a little bit in the cement. But we will see what is possible.
Regards, Peter
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Hello. And why not use natural cement without additives of high strength? Then you don't need to choose a color.
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Agreed. But... Macro pics are killers, so potentially looking better in real life.
Thanks for thinking with me, Anatoly. But I didn't have that at home. And the shopkeeper wouldn't open a package and sell me the amount of a teaspoon.
Seriously: I used the wood filler last week and thought it was a nice alternative.
Regards, Peter
The only thing, which you should or could consider is the surface of the concrete along the center line (green arrows)
Your model is representing a cut - means also the surface of the concrete should look like a cut through the concrete
The top (red arrow) is correct - this will be only leveled by a trowel
Here is a typical concrete cut - it has a complete smooth surface
Sorry - it is commenting on a model of highest standard - and maybe also because I am a civil engineer - so concrete is my daily business
We saw: "Mosern auf hohem Niveau" - like a eating in a 5* restaurant and saying, that the wine should be 0,5° colder
Your model is representing a cut - means also the surface of the concrete should look like a cut through the concrete
The top (red arrow) is correct - this will be only leveled by a trowel
Here is a typical concrete cut - it has a complete smooth surface
Sorry - it is commenting on a model of highest standard - and maybe also because I am a civil engineer - so concrete is my daily business
We saw: "Mosern auf hohem Niveau" - like a eating in a 5* restaurant and saying, that the wine should be 0,5° colder
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Thanks for thinking with me, Anatoly. But I didn't have that at home. And the shopkeeper wouldn't open a package and sell me the amount of a teaspoon.
Seriously: I used the wood filler last week and thought it was a nice alternative.
Regards, Peter
My house is under renovation, so cement in any quantity. That's why I thought about him.
You also thanks for thinking with me on this build, Uwe.
And thanks for the ‘5* restaurant’ comparison.
About:
Therefore it also would not be allowed by the HCSA ….. 
This also makes the finish susceptible to differences of opinion.
PS-1:
Perhaps the HCSA will introduce the sub-membership of the HCBC: The Half-Cut Build Club. But then there must be a representative amount of builds.
PS-2:
Just a little difference: they used for the cementing only ‘the best cosson cement and sharp river sand’.
So no little stones in it (pebbles?).
Regards, Peter
And thanks for the ‘5* restaurant’ comparison.
About:
Thats the problem, it’s not cut but build in halves…..
Therefore it also would not be allowed by the HCSA ….. This also makes the finish susceptible to differences of opinion.
PS-1:
Perhaps the HCSA will introduce the sub-membership of the HCBC: The Half-Cut Build Club.
But then there must be a representative amount of builds.PS-2:
Just a little difference: they used for the cementing only ‘the best cosson cement and sharp river sand’.
So no little stones in it (pebbles?).
Regards, Peter
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Time for the actual construction of the inside:
The hold under the forecastle.
At the front is the storage of the coal for both stoves in the forecastle and the galley. That space is called 'Hell'.
With a wooden wall as a partition for the extra storage of barrels. Every bit of space was used.
Both areas are accessible through 3 hatches in the floor of the forecastle.
The stove in the forecastle is under the 'light' and in front of it is the hatch in the floor.
Between the stairs and the stove are the two hatches for the barrel hold.
Only empty barrels were stored there because they were brought up and down the steep stairs from the forecastle. Once filled they remained on deck.
I once again dived into my 'never throw away box' for the coal. I still had a bag of train roadbed stones:
Selected the smallest.
Then blackened with Schmincke Ink:
It dries just matt. Also sorted to size for assembly in the hold. The largest one at the back because you can't see it anyway.
First made and installed the wooden wall:
And start filling the hold with the coal.
With a slightly overexposed photo, otherwise you won't see the coals:
There is already a emptiness in the stock above left. So something has already been used by the crew.
Aren't the coals a bit big? It's not like it used to be at home with the smaller species. Rough men live here, the heating has to be done quickly. So 'large pieces, home quickly'. If a piece is too big, just hit it with a hammer or wooden shoe.
regards, Peter
The hold under the forecastle.
At the front is the storage of the coal for both stoves in the forecastle and the galley. That space is called 'Hell'.
With a wooden wall as a partition for the extra storage of barrels. Every bit of space was used.
Both areas are accessible through 3 hatches in the floor of the forecastle.
The stove in the forecastle is under the 'light' and in front of it is the hatch in the floor.
Between the stairs and the stove are the two hatches for the barrel hold.
Only empty barrels were stored there because they were brought up and down the steep stairs from the forecastle. Once filled they remained on deck.
I once again dived into my 'never throw away box' for the coal. I still had a bag of train roadbed stones:
Selected the smallest.
Then blackened with Schmincke Ink:
It dries just matt. Also sorted to size for assembly in the hold. The largest one at the back because you can't see it anyway.
First made and installed the wooden wall:
And start filling the hold with the coal.
With a slightly overexposed photo, otherwise you won't see the coals:
There is already a emptiness in the stock above left. So something has already been used by the crew.
Aren't the coals a bit big? It's not like it used to be at home with the smaller species. Rough men live here, the heating has to be done quickly. So 'large pieces, home quickly'. If a piece is too big, just hit it with a hammer or wooden shoe.
regards, Peter
The barrel hold.
First the floorboards. The old specifications speak of 1 1/2" pine slats. That must have been thumbs and that is why I use inches. That would be 0.76 mm in scale.
The slats I intended for this are on average 0.85 mm. Decided to take something off anyway.
I was considering purchasing the compact Proxxon DH40 thicknesser. But if it could handle the thin slats, I asked Maarten @Maarten. He has this one in use and I thought the Byrnes too. His advice was not to purchase the Proxoon because with the thin slats there is a very good chance that the knives would snap and the slats would break.
That saves another purchase of x euros. The Byrnes with sanding rollers could handle that.
Apart from the question of whether Byrnes still delivers, given Jim's death, that would be an even bigger investment.
That's why I was creative. The Proxxon BFW-40/E is a robust machine. I put a sanding roller in it and with the cross table I can set the distance very precisely.
With the necessary guidance, the slats will go through just fine.
Then I started painting a number of barrels that I had previously had printed with the correct shape and dimensions.
These are stretched piece by piece in the Peroxxon DB250 lathe:
Colored by hand with a Talens Econine BrushPen. Since I used it on my BluenoseI really liked the use of Ecoline and Schmincke ink.
Then opted for black hoops:
The ink dries lighter. That's what I had in mind because herring barrels are made of an unprocessed light wood. Certainly not oak because that would affect the taste of the herring. Often also pine wood that is burned during bending. They then discolour on the outside under the influence of the salty seawater.
The floorboards 0.76 x 3.1 mm installed:
The old specifications: 'The floors are made of 1 1/2" pine wood with non-connecting sides.....'. Water and dirt fall through and are drained to 2 pumps, further in the hold.
As well as 3 sparring battens of 1 mm along the retaining frames so that the barrels do not bang on the iron frames.
From the side this also gives a nice line division:
Every viewing angle provides a surprising view of the interplay of lines. But then again, there won't be anything to see anymore.
A number of barrels placed in the hold:
It turns out that the dimensions of this hold are tailored to the floor planks and the height of the barrels.
Filled the hold a little further:
Filling it completely is of no use, as it is no longer visible after the forecastle floor has been installed. Except the part that provides a possible view with an open hatch in the floor.
With a picture of both parts together:
It gives you a different look on the added parts.
Now first make some construction blocks for support because the model will now gain quite a bit of weight. That will be a bit too much for the 2 pins on which the model currently stands.
Regards, Peter
First the floorboards. The old specifications speak of 1 1/2" pine slats. That must have been thumbs and that is why I use inches. That would be 0.76 mm in scale.
The slats I intended for this are on average 0.85 mm. Decided to take something off anyway.
I was considering purchasing the compact Proxxon DH40 thicknesser. But if it could handle the thin slats, I asked Maarten @Maarten. He has this one in use and I thought the Byrnes too. His advice was not to purchase the Proxoon because with the thin slats there is a very good chance that the knives would snap and the slats would break.
That saves another purchase of x euros. The Byrnes with sanding rollers could handle that.
Apart from the question of whether Byrnes still delivers, given Jim's death, that would be an even bigger investment.
That's why I was creative. The Proxxon BFW-40/E is a robust machine. I put a sanding roller in it and with the cross table I can set the distance very precisely.
With the necessary guidance, the slats will go through just fine.
Then I started painting a number of barrels that I had previously had printed with the correct shape and dimensions.
These are stretched piece by piece in the Peroxxon DB250 lathe:
Colored by hand with a Talens Econine BrushPen. Since I used it on my BluenoseI really liked the use of Ecoline and Schmincke ink.
Then opted for black hoops:
The ink dries lighter. That's what I had in mind because herring barrels are made of an unprocessed light wood. Certainly not oak because that would affect the taste of the herring. Often also pine wood that is burned during bending. They then discolour on the outside under the influence of the salty seawater.
The floorboards 0.76 x 3.1 mm installed:
The old specifications: 'The floors are made of 1 1/2" pine wood with non-connecting sides.....'. Water and dirt fall through and are drained to 2 pumps, further in the hold.
As well as 3 sparring battens of 1 mm along the retaining frames so that the barrels do not bang on the iron frames.
From the side this also gives a nice line division:
Every viewing angle provides a surprising view of the interplay of lines. But then again, there won't be anything to see anymore.
A number of barrels placed in the hold:
It turns out that the dimensions of this hold are tailored to the floor planks and the height of the barrels.
Filled the hold a little further:
Filling it completely is of no use, as it is no longer visible after the forecastle floor has been installed. Except the part that provides a possible view with an open hatch in the floor.
With a picture of both parts together:
It gives you a different look on the added parts.
Now first make some construction blocks for support because the model will now gain quite a bit of weight. That will be a bit too much for the 2 pins on which the model currently stands.
Regards, Peter
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Very good, that you have mentioned the hammer - I have no wooden shoes by hand .....
The coal is looking very realistic
The coal is looking very realistic
Thanks, Uwe. I do have the wooden shoes, but no coal ……Very good, that you have mentioned the hammer - I have no wooden shoes by hand .....
The coal is looking very realistic
Regards, Peter
Time for the more serious work: the forecastle.
The restoration book of the Maritime Museum contains a beautiful technical drawing of the layout of the forecastle:
(Source: Scheepvaartmuseum Restoration Book, page 90: "Crew quarters in the forecastle. Working drawing by S. de Jong.')
I have taken more than enough photos of the forecastle in the current Balder.
With a wide angle lens:
From the corner next to the stairs, diagonally to the left towards the front.
So there are 2x6 bunks. Those of the captain and the helmsman are in the rear of the ship. They do have their own place to eat: on the left against the wall at the front with the partition in between. These 2 seats were called 'de Stee'.
Seen from 'de Stee' backwards:
Next to the stairs is the passage to the galley. You can just see the bench that has a view to the stove and the handle of the water pump. That bench is against the wall of the drying hold on the port side.
The galley:
Behind the stove it is the wall of the drying hold on the starboard side.
Made a mockup with a few copies of Sybe de Jong's drawing to scale and some cutting:
Numbers placed at the 6 bunks on the port side. Bunks 5 and 6 are positioned transversely, against the wall of the drying hold.
A is a narrow space behind B, 'de Stee'. Clothes can be hung against the wall.
C is the bench that runs along the bunks in a horseshoe shape.
The walls will support the deck beams, so that the temporary support in the middle is no longer necessary.
The planks on the outside, which are bead planks, become a challenge. Let's see if the AL's profile scrapers can make such a profile. Otherwise I have to sharpen one myself.
Another challenge: the stairs and the stove are in the middle, over the center profile. A new recess in my construction mold? The stove of the galley is located in the starboard side construction. Creative with nibbled walls.
Regards, Peter
The restoration book of the Maritime Museum contains a beautiful technical drawing of the layout of the forecastle:
(Source: Scheepvaartmuseum Restoration Book, page 90: "Crew quarters in the forecastle. Working drawing by S. de Jong.')
I have taken more than enough photos of the forecastle in the current Balder.
With a wide angle lens:
From the corner next to the stairs, diagonally to the left towards the front.
So there are 2x6 bunks. Those of the captain and the helmsman are in the rear of the ship. They do have their own place to eat: on the left against the wall at the front with the partition in between. These 2 seats were called 'de Stee'.
Seen from 'de Stee' backwards:
Next to the stairs is the passage to the galley. You can just see the bench that has a view to the stove and the handle of the water pump. That bench is against the wall of the drying hold on the port side.
The galley:
Behind the stove it is the wall of the drying hold on the starboard side.
Made a mockup with a few copies of Sybe de Jong's drawing to scale and some cutting:
Numbers placed at the 6 bunks on the port side. Bunks 5 and 6 are positioned transversely, against the wall of the drying hold.
A is a narrow space behind B, 'de Stee'. Clothes can be hung against the wall.
C is the bench that runs along the bunks in a horseshoe shape.
The walls will support the deck beams, so that the temporary support in the middle is no longer necessary.
The planks on the outside, which are bead planks, become a challenge. Let's see if the AL's profile scrapers can make such a profile. Otherwise I have to sharpen one myself.
Another challenge: the stairs and the stove are in the middle, over the center profile. A new recess in my construction mold? The stove of the galley is located in the starboard side construction. Creative with nibbled walls.
Regards, Peter
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