Bravo - very good progress with the frame-production
-> in some time you will be already able to install them
-> in some time you will be already able to install them
CAF Granado 1/48 PoF Bomb Vessel by Signet
Looks like a great build! I am duly impressed that they detail the taper of the knee of the head which is not always addressed. Are you by chance using the Peter Goodwin AOTS book on Granado or any of the high resolution drawings of bomb vessels on the Wiki Commons site as a reference as well? Those on Wiki are some years later than Granado so might not so useful.
Allan
Allan
Thanks, Allan. Yes, I have Goodwin's book and have been searching for information elsewhere as well, mostly for ideas, detailing, etc. I don't think I'm familiar with the Wiki Commons site, though.
Thank you. Yes, I will shortly be adding to the dock, making sure I can fit in the various components.Bravo - very good progress with the frame-production
-> in some time you will be already able to install them
I guess Allan is refering to this site, which I explained in detail in this topic:
Research in National Maritime Museum Greenwich "RMG" "NMM" - 3.580 drawings now also at wikipedia
I showed already in several locations here in our forum the very interesting web-page of the Royal Museums Greenwich or the National Maritim Museum Here you can see the web-page with a research for the HMS Africa, launched in 1761 - Here contemporary drawings and plans, but also artefacts...
shipsofscale.com
For everybody interested in the Granado - the book review of the mentioned Goodwin book
Book Review: "The Bomb Vessel GRANADO (Anatomy of the Ship)" by Peter Goodwin
Book Review: The Bomb Vessel GRANADO (Anatomy of the Ship) by Peter Goodwin Hardcover: 128 pages Publisher: Conway Maritime Press; New edition edition (21 April 2005) Language: English Product Dimensions: 26 x 1.9 x 24.1 cm Synopsis: Built as a floating siege engine able to...
shipsofscale.com
and the available data on our research topic:
Ship History and Research - HMS GRANADO - bomb vessel - 1742
Based on the big interest, which was produced by the new model kits devloped by CAF I decided to make a new topic, showing the basic data and contemporary and new sources existing HMS GRANADO (1742) - bomb vessel - interesting is maybe also the fact, that the Constructor John Barnard...
shipsofscale.com
Well, darn. I started to make the remainder of the dock, and now see that the end pieces A & B supporting the stem and stern should not have been glued in place. I made sure they were nice and strongly glued, to shape each end of the keel properly. I left the ends loose, but not the keel supports, following this instruction:
But I now see that the horizontal template pieces cannot be fitted in place once they are assembled.
And I wouldn't trust making them in the final position, so I guess I take the above pieces A and B, so securely and accurately glued in place, out.
It would have been nice to note in the instructions to NOT glue these pieces at this time.
Rats!
But I now see that the horizontal template pieces cannot be fitted in place once they are assembled.
And I wouldn't trust making them in the final position, so I guess I take the above pieces A and B, so securely and accurately glued in place, out.
It would have been nice to note in the instructions to NOT glue these pieces at this time.Rats!
There are 12 bomb vessels on the website, with a total of 47 high res plans. There are only one or two plans for a few and as many as 7 to 9 for others They cover a wide range of years so may not be applicable for Granado but you still may find them interesting. There are 3000 drawings on the site. about 800 of which are high resolution. The list is alphabetical but it goes for a couple pages then starts again for some reason so a bit time consuming if you do not know the name of the ships you want to see. In this case the ones I found in high res are
BELZEBUB_1813, BOMB 1812, FURY 1814, HECLA 1780 and 1813, METEOR 1805, SULPHUR 1797, VESUVIUS 1776, AETNA, 1776 ALDERY 1734 & FURNACE 1740, ALECTO 1781, ETNA 1804 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ship_plans_of_the_Royal_Museums_Greenwich
There are a number of cross section plans I found really interesting such as the two below. Notice the double outboard planking and deck planking in the second drawing. The vessel is Fury 1814 but the drawing is from later so I don't know if that was a later innovation or had been done earlier. David Steel has a lot of information on bomb vessels as well in The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture if you really want to get deep into it.
Allan
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Interesting draught. In addition to the mere strengthening of the hull by adding a second layer of planking, please note the change in the angle of the side at the waterline level, with a significant benefit to the hydrostatic properties, or perhaps more correctly – increasing the lateral stability of the vessel.
Interesting draught. In addition to the mere strengthening of the hull by adding a second layer of planking, please note the change in the angle of the side at the waterline level, with a significant benefit to the hydrostatic properties, or perhaps more correctly – increasing the lateral stability of the vessel.
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We have to be careful with the drawings, and like Allan already mentioned correctly, have the time period and the purpose of each drawing in mind.
Our HMS Granado or sometimes spleed Grenado was one of the earlier bombs and launched already in 1742. The Fury, from which one the cross section was shown was launched in 1814 and had already several different add-ons like diagonal stiffeners / shores etc.
The cross section drawing of the Fury is showing alterations to the vessel made during winter 1820 / 21 when she was converted to a expedition ship => therefore the second planking sheeting, which was also already taken over by Waldemar - So at this time we did not have a bomb vessel any more, but a polar ship.
The original bomb vessel had no second wooden layer and also no iron knees.
www.rmg.co.uk
Very interesting, many thanks to Allan for listing the vessels, is the Vesuvius. She has already two different sizes of mortar boxes (with two different sizes of mortars) on the deck - so they adjusts first time also the house around the mortar and also the heavy base-structure of the mortar beds. Existing is also a complete framing plan, which is showing several changes compared to our Granado
www.rmg.co.uk
Our HMS Granado or sometimes spleed Grenado was one of the earlier bombs and launched already in 1742. The Fury, from which one the cross section was shown was launched in 1814 and had already several different add-ons like diagonal stiffeners / shores etc.
The cross section drawing of the Fury is showing alterations to the vessel made during winter 1820 / 21 when she was converted to a expedition ship => therefore the second planking sheeting, which was also already taken over by Waldemar - So at this time we did not have a bomb vessel any more, but a polar ship.
The original bomb vessel had no second wooden layer and also no iron knees.
Collection Results | Royal Museums Greenwich
Explore seafaring history, timekeeping and astronomy, fine art and the world's largest maritime library and archive collection. Start your search today.
Very interesting, many thanks to Allan for listing the vessels, is the Vesuvius. She has already two different sizes of mortar boxes (with two different sizes of mortars) on the deck - so they adjusts first time also the house around the mortar and also the heavy base-structure of the mortar beds. Existing is also a complete framing plan, which is showing several changes compared to our Granado
Collection Results | Royal Museums Greenwich
Explore seafaring history, timekeeping and astronomy, fine art and the world's largest maritime library and archive collection. Start your search today.
ja Ja - I told you not to glue to early - and there is no need to use a lot of glue - and if glue use waterbased one - you can easily reopen when necessaryWell, darn. I started to make the remainder of the dock, and now see that the end pieces A & B supporting the stem and stern should not have been glued in place. I made sure they were nice and strongly glued, to shape each end of the keel properly. I left the ends loose, but not the keel supports, following this instruction:
View attachment 449066
But I now see that the horizontal template pieces cannot be fitted in place once they are assembled.
View attachment 449067
And I wouldn't trust making them in the final position, so I guess I take the above pieces A and B, so securely and accurately glued in place, out.
Rats!
View attachment 449068
If necessary you can cut away some part of the jig structure - it is very stabile and riggid......
O-k-a-y (wish the o.k.a.y smilie 
wasn't inserted when spelling the word normally), on to fixing my problem. As mentioned above, I had glued parts A and B that support and locate the stem and stern portions of the keel, without any other parts being attached, which made it impossible to continue with the dock assembly. So, I soaked the Ponal glue used to soften it and remove the parts. The stern Part B came off fairly easily, with some mallet tapping and prying:
Part A, at the stem, was much more stubborn, having a longer glue length, and a rather fragile tapered portion that was starting to crack. The methods used on Part B didn't work, so I drilled a couple holes in the piece, and used a screwdriver and scrap shims to pry the part out vertically:
This worked well, but despite all the soaking with water first, it seems that Ponal glue attached itself to the upper ply of the dock plywood better than the plies were attached to each other:
But this cleaned up and allowed me to position the part properly during the dock assembly.
Shown below are, IMHO, the minimum number of dock parts that must be pre-assembled OFF of the mounting board, before then mounting the entire assembly to the board. It is shown here just sitting on the mounting board, not in the final position, but with all the parts required:
Here I have placed the keel assembly into position, and mounted the dock assembly in place, with the keel assembly positioned:
When positioning the keel assembly into its position in the dock with the upper template plates C13 and C14 in place, the stem would not fit into the slot provided (due to its length, not it's width):
It may have fit if tilted down in the front, but I didn't much like that, and felt I would later want to lift the hull assembly out of the dock vertically. So, I (crudely) extended the notch to allow for this:
I now realize that this area would be removed prior to removal of the hull, so this may not have been necessary, but it didn't hurt anything either.
The final dock assembly, with most parts glued in place:
Now working on the forward half-frames, I found it easiest to glue half-frames #1 to the bow assemblies. The contours didn't quite match, but I can hopefully fix that later when sanding the hull.
I also sanded off the little separators for the assembly in the dock; they didn't quite match my assembly, and weren't required, as I was installing the assemblies at once.
And after all bow pieces are in place:
In the aft area, I added the first couple half frames, attaching them to the stern reinforcements:
then finished the rest of the half frames:
I've now glued the halves of the keelson parts together, to use as a guide when installing the frames, to adjust the frame thicknesses at the keelson to get a good fit. I figure this is important to properly attach the frames to the keel and keelson structure, so need a decent fit there.
I'm glad I was able to correct my assembly problem and continue with the build. This part is going much faster than I had anticipated, but then I'm not doing the copper and steel nails and pins that Uwe has done; that level of detail is just too much for me, and most of it will not be visible anyhow (at least in my model which will not be horizontally split).
That's it for tonight. Goodnight, y'all. And for those in the U.S., have a great Memorial Day weekend!
wasn't inserted when spelling the word normally), on to fixing my problem. As mentioned above, I had glued parts A and B that support and locate the stem and stern portions of the keel, without any other parts being attached, which made it impossible to continue with the dock assembly. So, I soaked the Ponal glue used to soften it and remove the parts. The stern Part B came off fairly easily, with some mallet tapping and prying:Part A, at the stem, was much more stubborn, having a longer glue length, and a rather fragile tapered portion that was starting to crack. The methods used on Part B didn't work, so I drilled a couple holes in the piece, and used a screwdriver and scrap shims to pry the part out vertically:
This worked well, but despite all the soaking with water first, it seems that Ponal glue attached itself to the upper ply of the dock plywood better than the plies were attached to each other:
But this cleaned up and allowed me to position the part properly during the dock assembly.
Shown below are, IMHO, the minimum number of dock parts that must be pre-assembled OFF of the mounting board, before then mounting the entire assembly to the board. It is shown here just sitting on the mounting board, not in the final position, but with all the parts required:
Here I have placed the keel assembly into position, and mounted the dock assembly in place, with the keel assembly positioned:
When positioning the keel assembly into its position in the dock with the upper template plates C13 and C14 in place, the stem would not fit into the slot provided (due to its length, not it's width):
It may have fit if tilted down in the front, but I didn't much like that, and felt I would later want to lift the hull assembly out of the dock vertically. So, I (crudely) extended the notch to allow for this:
I now realize that this area would be removed prior to removal of the hull, so this may not have been necessary, but it didn't hurt anything either.
The final dock assembly, with most parts glued in place:
Now working on the forward half-frames, I found it easiest to glue half-frames #1 to the bow assemblies. The contours didn't quite match, but I can hopefully fix that later when sanding the hull.
I also sanded off the little separators for the assembly in the dock; they didn't quite match my assembly, and weren't required, as I was installing the assemblies at once.
And after all bow pieces are in place:
In the aft area, I added the first couple half frames, attaching them to the stern reinforcements:
then finished the rest of the half frames:
I've now glued the halves of the keelson parts together, to use as a guide when installing the frames, to adjust the frame thicknesses at the keelson to get a good fit. I figure this is important to properly attach the frames to the keel and keelson structure, so need a decent fit there.
I'm glad I was able to correct my assembly problem and continue with the build. This part is going much faster than I had anticipated, but then I'm not doing the copper and steel nails and pins that Uwe has done; that level of detail is just too much for me, and most of it will not be visible anyhow (at least in my model which will not be horizontally split).
That's it for tonight. Goodnight, y'all. And for those in the U.S., have a great Memorial Day weekend!
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Continuing on with the full frames, I've been working back from the aft:
Concerning the 4mm square strips you use to check the height of oar and gunports:
for the gunports and windows, can anyone confirm if the strip is supposed to ride at the bottom of the opening, or atop the horizontal pieces shown in this later instruction:
I assume it's before these pieces are added, but seem to remember Keef or someone else mentioning a problem with measuring this distance, and if so, some of my ports are running a bit low (1-2mm). That being the case, I can easily add a piece of scrap to bring it to the right height, but I'd like to be sure on that.
Also, looking at all the instructions, it appears there are no spacers between frames except at the keel, nothing to keep them in line and strong, unlike Uwe's cross-section model:
and other kits I have seen where spacers are placed between the upper part of the frames on a similar model. I know I'm supposed to add an outer strip later, to make it strong, but thought there should be more.
I'm also a bit concerned about getting the completed hull out of the dock. I've glued the dock together (as I am certain someone said I should), and each frame needs to be bent with some considerable force to get into position. It's hard to imagine prying the completed hull out of the dock without a problem. Perhaps tearing the dock apart piece-by-piece?
Concerning the 4mm square strips you use to check the height of oar and gunports:
for the gunports and windows, can anyone confirm if the strip is supposed to ride at the bottom of the opening, or atop the horizontal pieces shown in this later instruction:
I assume it's before these pieces are added, but seem to remember Keef or someone else mentioning a problem with measuring this distance, and if so, some of my ports are running a bit low (1-2mm). That being the case, I can easily add a piece of scrap to bring it to the right height, but I'd like to be sure on that.
Also, looking at all the instructions, it appears there are no spacers between frames except at the keel, nothing to keep them in line and strong, unlike Uwe's cross-section model:
and other kits I have seen where spacers are placed between the upper part of the frames on a similar model. I know I'm supposed to add an outer strip later, to make it strong, but thought there should be more.
I'm also a bit concerned about getting the completed hull out of the dock. I've glued the dock together (as I am certain someone said I should), and each frame needs to be bent with some considerable force to get into position. It's hard to imagine prying the completed hull out of the dock without a problem. Perhaps tearing the dock apart piece-by-piece?
If you glued it together with PVA you can always disolve the glue with Acetone.
No, I used white glue, and not TOO much of it, but will probably break it apart using pliers or something when it comes to that. It's so sturdy, I thought about not using glue at all, but had heard it should be glued, so....
I don't think it will be a big problem. I certainly won't let the hull be harmed.
For some reason I missed that you had started another build.
I'm now subscribed and looking forward to your work and commentary on this kit, as I'm interested in it as a possible next project.
Great work, build description, and photos!
I'm now subscribed and looking forward to your work and commentary on this kit, as I'm interested in it as a possible next project.
Great work, build description, and photos!
White glue is PVA, so put some Acetone on it with a cotton tip and the glue joints can be easily separated.
I thought I'd go ahead and place another set of frames, the ones under the weights:
I had originally intended to glue the entire keelson into one piece and install, but the center pieces seemed a bit long, so I'm going to install each as I go along. I can then easily reduce the length at the stem to fit properly.
I had originally intended to glue the entire keelson into one piece and install, but the center pieces seemed a bit long, so I'm going to install each as I go along. I can then easily reduce the length at the stem to fit properly.
Ah, yes, I knew that, right? I've used water to separate PVA/White glue joints, and it works pretty well (thankfully). Does acetone work better?
I use watertight PVA so I don't have another option than Acetone
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