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Hi Allan. I read your post while out with the dog and I was sure that Mondfeld had mentioned this.
And there it was.
“The practice never became universal” a caveat which is almost universal in itself.
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H.M.S. Surprise by Artesania Latina - Build log
- Thread starter RegW
- Start date
- Watchers 27
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- artesania latina surprise
And there it was.
“The practice never became universal” a caveat which is almost universal in itself.
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You’re welcome. I hesitate to correct anyone because I’m a novice myself really. I’m only on my fifth ship (and only the third with any appreciable rigging.)
Thanks Smithy, And that is why we should think hard about using the words "always and never" in model ship building.
Allan
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Thanks Smithy, And that is why we should think hard about using the words "always and never" in model ship building.
Allan
It’s a convenient opening for ‘artistic interpretation’ to enter the stage.
Kurt Konrath
Kurt Konrath
You may consider running lines thru bees wax to help hide the fuzzies, or a few brave souls used flame to burn them off.
Another thing is to throw away the kit ropes, and buy aftermarket ones of better quality.
You have a good vender in Canada.
Another thing is to throw away the kit ropes, and buy aftermarket ones of better quality.
You have a good vender in Canada.
I would say it a little differently, throw away the kite string and buy aftermarket rope made on a rope walk.
The stuff from some kit makers has no resemblance to miniature rope which has more to do with costs than anything else so is understandable.Allan
Yes, I purchased enough ropes from them to complete the standing rigging phase. By the time I complete that, I expect to have a better understanding of how much running rigging rope I'll probably need. I'm sure that is months from now cuz the snow is almost gone, and summer is always too damned short in this city. So I'll be spending more leisure time outdoors rather than in my mancave.
While waiting for my rope order to arrive, I've been making details that are not included with the A.L. kit. Some of these I'll avoid photographing till after installation...
So I also spent 4 days making iron rings to secure the yard battens that I completed previously. These were "unfun" for me, but my references indicated that they were required. The kit supplied rope for this purpose, but it did not look correct on the larger yards. So I found some 0.7 mm thick brass sheets in my stash and figured I could make these rings from scratch. Unwise decision, but I got them done.
The fitting tolerance was snug enough that adhesive/glue was unnecessary. I treated the yard centre sections with a caramel spray to cover the weird black wood grain that was unsuitable for stain.
Close-up photo has a lot of lens distortion, so you'll have to trust me that all of these rings are square on the yard.
I will oil these yards as a final preservative, but leave the outer arms of the yards as they are with the odd wood grain showing.
So I also spent 4 days making iron rings to secure the yard battens that I completed previously. These were "unfun" for me, but my references indicated that they were required. The kit supplied rope for this purpose, but it did not look correct on the larger yards. So I found some 0.7 mm thick brass sheets in my stash and figured I could make these rings from scratch. Unwise decision, but I got them done.
The fitting tolerance was snug enough that adhesive/glue was unnecessary. I treated the yard centre sections with a caramel spray to cover the weird black wood grain that was unsuitable for stain.
Close-up photo has a lot of lens distortion, so you'll have to trust me that all of these rings are square on the yard.
I will oil these yards as a final preservative, but leave the outer arms of the yards as they are with the odd wood grain showing.
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I've been away from my shipyard for 7 months. Two of those were summer fun outside. In the middle of that I received some "sour" news from my physician. So the local neurology department took a chunk out of my head (tumour) followed by radiation, chemo and temporary loss of hand/finger control, along with other side effects. I don't have to worry about having a "bad hair" day anymore. Shrug.
So I did manage to take a few photos of the initial rigging of the Surprise. Yes, I made a ton of errors. I'll correct these on my second build.
So I did manage to take a few photos of the initial rigging of the Surprise. Yes, I made a ton of errors. I'll correct these on my second build.
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My fingers are not working very accurately yet, and I'm finding my progress to be very slow. I don't want to screw-up the model more than I already have, so I'm working on non-critical parts. The parts I've chose can be re-done without hair loss - not a real concern of mine at the moment...
My first attempt at the foremast jeers:
Second attempt:
Top view:
I know that these should be served and doubled, but that is beyond my current finger motor function.
Also made a "weak effort" at making 1mm thimbles for the catharpins. I know that I will improve this "skill" eventually:
The jeers for a single yard took me an entire day, and my fingers were shaking with exhaustion when I quit... but I still am happy to be back to my project. I will not be posting very often as I expect my progress to be greatly reduced.
My first attempt at the foremast jeers:
Second attempt:
Top view:
I know that these should be served and doubled, but that is beyond my current finger motor function.
Also made a "weak effort" at making 1mm thimbles for the catharpins. I know that I will improve this "skill" eventually:
The jeers for a single yard took me an entire day, and my fingers were shaking with exhaustion when I quit... but I still am happy to be back to my project. I will not be posting very often as I expect my progress to be greatly reduced.
Good morning Reg. wow you have been through some tough months. I hope they got that tumour and you are on your way to recovery. Rigging these ships of the line is no mean feat and so far looking very good. Lovely ropes BTW. Cheers Grant
Thank you for your kind words Dale. I hope to get her done and plan to work on her whenever I'm able. I hope to be around long enough to do a POF kit when this one is done. I believe in optimism!
I'd like to think the tough months are behind me. Time will tell. Thank you for your kind words Grant. They are very much appreciated. I did a lot of reading while in the hospital, and have come to realize a bunch of errors with my build. These were all caused by incorrect kit instructions. Allan pointed me at some great books which I have been referring to and will help me to avoid more gross errors in this build (I hope). Enjoy your summer and best of the season to you sir!
Hi Reg, I see you have a positive mindset. Good luck with the rest of your recovery. And with the build of the HMS Surprise. 
I keep following.
I keep following.
Glad to see you plugging along with your project. Good for you!!!!
Is the rigging you are showing for the jeers from the kit instructions? It is a good idea to double check anything in AL instructions with well researched sources if such things matter to you. FWIW from James Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 6th rates and below used two single and one double block for the jeers until the last half of the 18th century and toward the latter part of the 18th century a jeer tie was re-introduced on ships of 28 guns and smaller. It consisted of two single upper blocks, and one single block on the yard.
From Steel's The Elements and Practiced of Rigging and Seamanship.
JEARS, in merchant-ships, and small ships in the navy, have two single blocks lashed on each side the mast-head, as above, and another, the same size, in the middle of the yard. The tye, which connects with these blocks, reeves through one of the blocks at the mast-head, then through the block on the yard, and afterwards through the block on the other side the mast-head. In the lower ends of the tye is spliced a double-block, which is connected by its fall to a treble-block, that hooks to an eye-bolt in the deck, close to the mast, on each side. By this the power of the tackles below is communicated to the tye, which, connecting with the block upon the yard, easily sways it up, or lowers it down.
Allan
Is the rigging you are showing for the jeers from the kit instructions? It is a good idea to double check anything in AL instructions with well researched sources if such things matter to you. FWIW from James Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 6th rates and below used two single and one double block for the jeers until the last half of the 18th century and toward the latter part of the 18th century a jeer tie was re-introduced on ships of 28 guns and smaller. It consisted of two single upper blocks, and one single block on the yard.
From Steel's The Elements and Practiced of Rigging and Seamanship.
JEARS, in merchant-ships, and small ships in the navy, have two single blocks lashed on each side the mast-head, as above, and another, the same size, in the middle of the yard. The tye, which connects with these blocks, reeves through one of the blocks at the mast-head, then through the block on the yard, and afterwards through the block on the other side the mast-head. In the lower ends of the tye is spliced a double-block, which is connected by its fall to a treble-block, that hooks to an eye-bolt in the deck, close to the mast, on each side. By this the power of the tackles below is communicated to the tye, which, connecting with the block upon the yard, easily sways it up, or lowers it down.
Allan
Hello Allan, the answer is yes and no. The kit instructions called for two 7mm double blocks and didn't mention how to attach them precisely. So I referred to Lennarth Petersson's "Rigging Period Ship Models" book, page 35. As my model is basically a "fantasy / fictional" ship I didn't do any further research.
I should not have assumed the model was supposed to be Surprise 1774 or Surprise 1796 as I did not realize your model was a fantasy ship. Totally my fault.
Keep in mind the Petersson book is based on one fifth rate ship model, HMS Melampus and would not be appropriate for some things such as the jeers for a sixth rate. Melampus 1785 jeers would have been two doubles and one single. The drawing in the book shows two doubles and two triples which was used on a first rate and would not have been set up that way on actual 2nd through 6th rates.
In the end go with what makes you happy as that is the number one priority!
Allan
Hey Reg ! I'm so glad the hard stuff is behind you ! Your work on the jeers looks wonderful ! Out of curiosity, is the line material you are using what was supplied with the kit, or are you using aftermarket line products?
Hope you have a very fast recovery !
Hope you have a very fast recovery !
I jettisoned the "kite sting/yarn" that was supplied with the kit. The black ropes were purchased from "Ropes of Scape", and I've learned to make small diameter ropes in the tan colour (0.15mm, 0.25mm and 0.5mm ropes) with acceptable results. I'm fortunate to have a 22 foot countertop in my kitchen, and I live alone - so no one around to scream about my kitchen use for the ropewalk. LOL!
I also purchased some medium brown ropes and thread from Ropes of Scale which I have plans to use for some of the stays. I'm not a "purist" when it comes to colour selection. To be honest, I am disappointed in the black shrouds. The fact that I served these is almost impossible to see because the black colour hides it so well. My next ship will not be using black rope at all. Live and learn.
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