HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50

@RDN1954 Hello Johan. I agree with Hans - I also think it is a great question. What I really appreciate about the question is the fact that you have the courage to say and verbalize what many others may be thinking, but are too hesitant to say aloud. That is the kind of question we all need, as it offers the opportunity of explanation. On the other hand, however, it can only be explained if the kit manufacturer takes an active interest in the build of his models, is preferably a modeler himself and takes the interest of his customers' builds to heart. And that is what I appreciate so much about Hans - he actively participates, because he loves this hobby just as much as we do. If we have these two ingredients of an excellent question and an equally great answer, we are set up for another high-level discussion. Once again, I cannot tell you guys enough how much appreciate the participation on this log.

So with that said, let me give you my perspective. I know the Kolderstok kits well having studied Hans's development reports of each new kit as he built them and then wrote the accompanying reports. The Batavia was designed from the outset to be equipped with guns, hence more than adequate provisions were made and even so, you will see that on all Batavia builds the 12th gunport (the one closest to the bow) remains closed because there is a bulkhead in the way. On the Zeven Provincien with its 84 cannons there is also one area where the bulkheads need to be filed away to accommodate the cannon. On the Duyfken all cannons are mounted top-deck, so no problem there. However, on the Willem Barentsz and the Fluit, installing cannons were never intended - so I knew exactly what I was letting myself in for, deciding to build the WB - as I did with the planking of a hull with a zeeg (sway) like that.

Now let me tell you a little secret and some insight to the real pain in the a*** I can be sometimes. Just filing away the bulkheads are perfectly OK for the insertion of the fillers - you do not need to cut the bulkhead portion away. But, if I didn't remove them, there would have been a very small gap (probably no more than half a millimeter) between the filler piece and the bulkhead. To all sane people this would have been fine, because the whole area is covered by the gunport lids in any case afterwards. But because I was showing the process step-by-step, I did not want to post pictures that could possibly show little gaps - I wanted it to be "perfect" - that is why I removed those sections of the bulkheads. :)

I will post pictures later today, but last night I dry-fitted the cut-out lids in their places - just beautiful / perfect, if I may say so myself. In the past, I would never have bothered to cut out ports in a way that I could re-use the lids. This build has forced me to do that and in doing so, has taught me another skill. That is what gives accomplishment and build satisfaction.

I hope that my two cents make sense!
 
@Kolderstok Hello Hans. Thank you so much for your participation in this wonderful discussion and for offering us as modelers the chance of seeing things from the manufacturer's perspective as well. You are the best qualified to answer a question like that because you are both modeler and kit manufacturer - thus you have to walk in two sets of boots. And about doing things the easy way - you are so right.

Actually when I started making the first few cuts, I was effectively scribing the gunports and it didn't look half bad. But was I satisfied with that? No, simply because that was not the best way of doing it. Now that I have done it and have test fitted those pieces, I am super-happy about the result. Was it a lot of extra work? Yes - a ton, BUT it was worth it.:)

Now it's a question of staying even more focused on the port side to achieve the same results. Thank you for a superb kit - if I can keep my wits about me, this has the potential to be a great WB.
 
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dockattner said:
Hello Hans,

I love this response to our colleague's excellent question. Even as a novice builder I find myself wondering why (and why not) with regard to the kit I am building. We often only think from the builder's perspective and we forget that kit development has been a long journey. I'm an orthodontist and sometimes my patients ask me: can we do this or that. Often the answer is: yes, if you want to start all over again...
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Hello Paul. Thank you so much for your contribution. I can only echo your sentiments. Just handling the sales of Bluenose on SOS, has allowed me to have a good look at the frustrations that kit manufacturers also face. Hans's answer does offer us that insight which we are often blissfully unaware of. At my previous Teaching Institution, I was involved in the writing of new syllabii as well. That was a process that was started four years ago when I arrived in China and was completed in the middle of last year. During that process, there were many discussions of how we could have changed this or that to make it better, but effecting any change would have set us back two years. If we have to adhere to the whims and fancies of each and every individual who is involved in a process, we will never make any progress, nor will we ever be able to bring a product to market.
 
wmgrimball said:
I have recently finished reading Volume III of J. L. Motley's History of the United Netherlands, in which Motley gives a thorough account of the 1596/7 expedition of Barents and his comrades. They were iced in and had to spend the winter in the neighborhood of Nova Zembla where they were attacked by ravenous polar bears, the meat of which enabled them to survive. Barents was a skilled navigator of the order of Cook, and his detailed observations enabled him to accurately deduce the position of the house they constructed. Barents died right at the end of their ordeal and the sea was appropriately named for him. Europeans had fantastic ideas about the inhabitants of the Northern climes and that there was a northern route to China. The expedition laid all that to rest, and the Dutch turned their attention to the spice islands north of Australia where they displaced the cruel regimes of the Portuguese and Spaniards. Their monopoly of the spice trade set them up to become one of the wealthiest nations on the planet at the time.
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Good morning wmgrinmball. (Maybe next time you can insert your first name, so that I don't have to greet you so impersonally :)). Thank you for a great input. You have given an excellent summary of what the expedition was all about. However, I find one piece of information particularly interesting. In the work by J.L. Motley it is stated that Barentsz and his men were able to survive on the meat of the polar bears.

My sources though, tell a different story: "Once, they did try to eat some of its meat {the polar bear's meat}, but everyone got so sick from it that they vowed never to touch it again. The cause of this was traced to the liver of the polar bear. As the polar bear’s main diet consists of seals, it resulted in its liver being exceptionally rich in Vitamin A content, which was just too much for the men’s weakened constitutions. The Vitamin A actually poisoned the men’s systems and soon they were suffering from severe blistering of the skin and skin loss.

Now what makes your posting so valuable is the fact that it shows us again: two sources - two different outcomes. Modelers love to debate as to what was historically correct and what were the actual ways in which things were done. So it teaches us yet again the same lesson: If researchers can't even agree on the diet of the men, how can we ever hope to build ships and then say that our way of doing things is the definitive and correct way! :)

Thank you again!
 
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Kolderstok said:
I find this a good question :)
It has not so much to do with costs, but more with the whole process of developping a kit.
I started with the clear idea to make the expedition ship of Willem Barentsz, and as we know now (living somewhat later then Barentsz) they did not have to use canons. So I decided to make the model without any armament. I also had the idea of scribing the gunports instead of cutting them out and glue back. And so the complete kit came together. But then scribing didn't look as good as cutting out so I decided to cut them out and glue back in place. No cutting away of frames, as the wood would be placed back onto it.

And then there came questions if a canon set would come available, as the ship certainly would have carried some.

Ok - what to do? Change the whole design, start all over again with new frames, new photo's, new building instructions etc? The kit was almost ready to bring it on the market, and many people where already waiting for it. Once you have choosen your path it is almost impossible to change that. For me it was definitely a no go to start again from almost zero
Adding guns with having to cut away some of the frames was the much easier option. It is also more like it was in real life. Ships didn't consist of 10 frames each a few feet apart, no. A wooden ship was frames from front to aft, and you always had to cut out some of the frames for the gun ports.
So here you can practice in small how the real boat building life was :)

Hans
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One significant advantage for models is that we accept the visual result and do not have to deal with actual shipwright's structural concerns/needs for a functioning vessel. Of course, some modelers may want a structurally correct end result but that seems to take the tack of scratch building. Kit models are products commercially offered for the pleasure of the consumer. Select your own tack. Just my thoughts . . . Rich (PT-2)
 
@PT-2 Hi Rich. Thank you for your thoughts. In essence, you are correct. I had two choices: scribe the gunports or cut them out and replace the lids. The visual impact in the end will basically be the same - the only difference will be that doing the latter will result in sharper defined lines around the gunports. The downside is that this whole process might take me a week. The choice remains that of the individual modeler - the kit offers you both choices.
 
So ... after all has been said and done, I glued the lids back into position this morning. First of all - during the cut-out process the accuracy was such that all 6 lids could be re-used as they were cut out - no filing, no sanding, no nothing. Secondly, the lids have not yet been sanded flush with the hull. This is their raw fit - you can still see all the pencil marks on them.

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Once this portion of the hull has been sanded, you will be left with razor fine, yet sharply defined lines around the ports. Was it worth the effort? To me, absolutely !!!

Therefore I want to thank each and every one of you who has so magnificently contributed to this decision. ThumbsupI believe we have made an excellent collective choice! :)
 
Heinrich said:
So ... after all has been said and done, I glued the lids back into position this morning. First of all - during the cut-out process the accuracy was such that all 6 lids could be re-used as they were cut out - no filing, no sanding, no nothing. Secondly, the lids have not yet been sanded flush with the hull. This is their raw fit - you can still see all the pencil marks on them.

View attachment 282120
Once this portion of the hull has been sanded, you will be left with razor fine, yet sharply defined lines around the ports. Was it worth the effort? To me, absolutely !!!

Therefore I want to thank each and every one of you who has so magnificently contributed to this decision. ThumbsupI believe we have made an excellent collective choice! :)
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Our reward is in your satisfaction with the task accomplished. Rich
 
Heinrich said:
@PT-2 Hi Rich. Thank you for your thoughts. In essence, you are correct. I had two choices: scribe the gunports or cut them out and replace the lids. The visual impact in the end will basically be the same - the only difference will be that doing the latter will result in sharper defined lines around the gunports. The downside is that this whole process might take me a week. The choice remains that of the individual modeler - the kit offers you both choices.
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I absolutely love this log- brilliant contribution from all.
 
GrantTyler said:
I absolutely love this log- brilliant contribution from all.
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Grant, I echo your sentiments completely. To me this has far transcended beyond just a build log - it has actually become a collective think tank. I couldn't be happier - ecstatic with the way that the log is turning out and very happy with the results that it is yielding!
 
Peter Voogt said:
That looks GREAT, Heinrich. Nice to see that option A-A exceeded so well. A well made time investment and a new confidence in your own skills!
And I loved the ‘discussion’ about the point of view from the designer and the builders.
With the questions and answers.
Regards, Peter
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Thank you so much Peter - I really appreciate your comments. As you can see I managed to reuse the cut-out lids so the wood grain flows nicely while the color is perfectly consistent.
 
Heinrich said:
So ... after all has been said and done, I glued the lids back into position this morning. First of all - during the cut-out process the accuracy was such that all 6 lids could be re-used as they were cut out - no filing, no sanding, no nothing. Secondly, the lids have not yet been sanded flush with the hull. This is their raw fit - you can still see all the pencil marks on them.

View attachment 282120
Once this portion of the hull has been sanded, you will be left with razor fine, yet sharply defined lines around the ports. Was it worth the effort? To me, absolutely !!!

Therefore I want to thank each and every one of you who has so magnificently contributed to this decision. ThumbsupI believe we have made an excellent collective choice! :)
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"Vakmanschap is meesterschap" to use the text of an old Dutch beer commercial.
 
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Pathfinder65 said:
I would say you’re planning and execution for this build step has resulted in an excellent result. Nicely done.

Jan
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Thank you so much my friend. I am also satisfied with how that turned out. In the meantime the Port Side's gunports have also been cut out and the first four filler pieces are in the clamps - glue drying. Tomorrow I do my charity teaching again - if it wasn't for that, I could have finished this part of the build tomorrow. Now it will probably be only on Friday.
 
Hello Heinrich,
my sincere apologies for just now catching up with this build. I often get sidelined. It seems that behind the scenes, I am always helping some modeler with - what kit to buy, how to rig, and the list goes on and I spend probably a lot of time on "PM's" helping folks. Between that - my life, job, wife, my own model, it seems that I just skim through the forum - now, I will get a notif when you post something here.
As usual, your abilities will make this a fine model to admire.

kindly
Donald
 
Donnie said:
Hello Heinrich,
my sincere apologies for just now catching up with this build. I often get sidelined. It seems that behind the scenes, I am always helping some modeler with - what kit to buy, how to rig, and the list goes on and I spend probably a lot of time on "PM's" helping folks. Between that - my life, job, wife, my own model, it seems that I just skim through the forum - now, I will get a notif when you post something here.
As usual, your abilities will make this a fine model to admire.

kindly
Donald
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No worries, Donnie!
 
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