HMS Agamemnon by Caldercraft

[iutar]

We continue to look at the photographs of the instructions sent by Mark.

On the side of the waist, just like on the Diana model, Chris again slapped on some fantastic parts number 182. I told Mark about it then, but he didn't change it; he listened to Allan, who also gave me the wrong version. I'll repeat again: parts 182 should look as shown below, and nothing else.



Correct shape of part 182 (cleats):

 

[iutar]

The main hatch.
The main hatch consists of four sections joined into a common coaming.

The first section, counting from the ship's bow, could have been covered with a grate. A ladder (stairs) could have been located here. There is no ladder here in the Nassau drawing.

The second section is a hatch for loading barrels and bags, as well as ammunition. It must be covered with a grated cover.

The third section is a massive oak slab that supports the mast. It's called "Mast's partners."
At the edges of "Mast's partners" are bitts (bitt), part 45.
The hatch must be designed so that the aft bitts rest with their tops against the first beam of the quarterdeck.

Behind the "Mast's partners" is a large cargo hatch for provisions, it is also covered with a grated cover.








Chris Watton is making some nonsense here. The main hatch isn't a single piece, but rather made up of separate, independent components. That's a gross error.
And again, just like on the quarterdeck, Chris can't count, and instead of one section for barrels and sacks, he shows two sections. We only need one section, not two!
Mast's partners is missing entirely. For some reason, deck planks are shown instead. This is incorrect.

Anyone can easily print the image at the required size and create the main hatch correctly. Note that the hatch coamings are much wider than on the model. The cannonball sockets were not shown in the actual drawings to avoid cluttering the drawing.

 

[iutar]

Let's turn to the bitts. Their actual shape is very different from what's shown in the model. The bitts had two pulleys at the bottom, and above the pulleys was a horizontal beam called a crosspiece.
The aft bitts rested with their tops against the forward beam of the quarterdeck. They served as pillars for the beam. The main yard halyards were laid on these bitts.

The forward bitts have a powerful horizontal beam at their top. This is used to store spare rigging.
Due to their characteristic similarity, the front bits were called "gallows".
The "gallows" were definitely found on 64-gun ships, as the quarterdeck was not long enough to accommodate spare spars. The "gallows" is also visible on the museum model of a 64-gun ship in the Greenwich collection.
The main topsail sheets were laid on these bitts.

Since the bitts will have to be made from scratch, keep in mind that the height of the gallows coincides with the height of the forecastle and quarterdeck.

 

[HMSFly]

How would you rate AL scraper, shaper set?

Hello,

Very good. Note that this is the first time I've used them, and of course, I can't yet judge their longevity (how long they stay sharp).

 

[HMSFly]

Mark, why didn't you fix those holes? Did you forget? If you don't fix them, what's the point of improving the model if it's already incorrect?

View attachment 549698

Hey Iutar,


I did not forgot it. Ill planning this together with the installation of the second decorative strip, just above...

 

[iutar]

The forward hatch. Once again, Chris Watton got it all wrong. The actual hatch consisted of four sections, joined by a single coaming. The capstan, with its massive joint, should be in the place of the third section.
I don't even want to comment on what Chris did. It's like the ramblings of a drunk horse in a ditch. I didn't even make any drawings - you can see for yourself that everything here needs to be deleted completely.
In the photographs of the museum models, note that the capstan joint is higher than the coamings, and the joint itself is straight and has no camber. Meanwhile, the hatch covers on all the hatches have a camber (curve). Also note that the hatch tapers slightly towards the nose.

I have already shown photographs of the capstans on the upper deck before, so I will not repeat them here.

You can make proper hatches by simply transferring an archival drawing to the model. Similarly, by printing the drawing to scale and using photographs of museum models as a guide, you can easily make the bitts near the mast.

 

[HMSFly]

The forward hatch. Once again, Chris Watton got it all wrong. The actual hatch consisted of four sections, joined by a single coaming. The capstan, with its massive joint, should be in the place of the third section.
I don't even want to comment on what Chris did. It's like the ramblings of a drunk horse in a ditch. I didn't even make any drawings - you can see for yourself that everything here needs to be deleted completely.
In the photographs of the museum models, note that the capstan joint is higher than the coamings, and the joint itself is straight and has no camber. Meanwhile, the hatch covers on all the hatches have a camber (curve). Also note that the hatch tapers slightly towards the nose.

I have already shown photographs of the capstans on the upper deck before, so I will not repeat them here.

You can make proper hatches by simply transferring an archival drawing to the model. Similarly, by printing the drawing to scale and using photographs of museum models as a guide, you can easily make the bitts near the mast.

View attachment 549762

View attachment 549761
View attachment 549763

Hey Iutar,

Not clear for me: below two pictures with the Gun deck (Already glued into position).
Am I asking too much to sign your comment on the deck?

 

[iutar]

The belfry and aft bollards on the forecastle.

As can be seen in archival drawings of various 64-gun ships, in all cases the belfry has two supports with bollards. Although there are archival drawings of 64-gun ships that have a belfry with four legs, such as Intrepid or Anson, the Nassau drawing clearly shows two columns at the belfry.








Between the bell tower and the rear bollards were massive wooden pieces with a shaped cutout. These were called "bed." They were used to store spare topmasts. The opposite end of the spare topmasts lay on the "gallows".








The rear bollards were small and, judging by the archival drawing, had knees. In other words, these bollards were exactly the same as those now shown on the Victory Museum Ship. Feel free to copy them.
Please note: Since the mid-18th century, there have been no belaying pins on the horizontal planks belonging to these bollards!






You've probably noticed that many museum models have white railings and bitts, even though we know they were all entirely black. It's simple: the small parts were made of animal bones to prevent breakage, and paint wouldn't stick to them.

 

[iutar]

Hey Iutar,

Not clear for me: below two pictures with the Gun deck (Already glued into position).
Am I asking too much to sign your comment on the deck?

Mark, you're kidding! Wouldn't it be easier for you to just print out the archive drawing and attach it to the drawings from the model kit?

Do this, just print out the drawings I provided links to and calmly compare them with the drawings from the model kit.

I can't do that.

 

[iutar]

Finally, here's Mark's last photo. This is the forecastle deck. As you can clearly see, even here Chris Watton made a mistake. He placed the stovepipe where, on the real ship, there was a hatch for lighting the galley boilers (pots). Mark should have placed the stovepipe closer to the hatch intended for lighting the kitchen table.

The hatch, intended to provide light on the kitchen table, consisted of two sections.

It is also necessary to put the bits in new, wider places. It is also necessary to make their crosspiece longer.

 

[iutar]

\\\ The first picture is an actual drawing for 64-gun ships, 1780

 

[HMSFly]

The progress .... I started with the Coppering
Still 2500 to go

 

[AllanKP69]

For the future, the coppering started at the water line and worked down so the overlap was correct. If you are not overlapping the plates it probably does not really matter in the end. One problem that prevents overlapping that looks good is that a lot of the kit and aftermarket plates are too thick and they have nail marks all around so it looks odd. The plates (28 pound copper) were about 0.003" (0.09mm) thick at 1:64. A lot of folks use foil so they can make the overlap. Amati makes plates with the nail marks set up so when the plates are butted against each other they appear to overlap. Allan

 

[iutar]

Dear Marc!
Since you said that you want to make many models with copper plating, I want to warn you.

Rudders loops and hooks were never placed on copper plating. On the contrary: first the rudder was placed on the body, and then copper sheets were nailed, carefully cutting them to the shape of the hinges.

The main reason is that the ship was first built, then launched, completed, tested, and only then it was sheathed in copper.
The second reason is that usually the steering loops and hooks were cut into the body, and it was impossible to push copper under them. And unnecessary.

You will now make the traditional rookie mistake of gluing the steering loops on top of the copper sheathing.

The photos below show how the copper sheets carefully bend around the steering parts. Just take a closer look.

First you should have installed the rudders hinges and hooks. And only then we glue copper plates next to these parts, carefully cutting the plates.





Once again, I promise you to pay attention: the copper sheets were never placed under the hinges and hooks. This is impossible. The copper sheets were carefully cut and nailed tightly to the hinges already installed on the ship's hull!

 

[iutar]

There's another interesting detail. The Agamemnon was copper-plated before 1783, which means a beech plank should have been nailed along the waterline, along the top edge of the copper sheets. A plank made of beech wood ran directly under the main wales.

 

[HMSFly]

Excellent advice and corrections again. Thanks, Iutar and Allan.
As you can see from the photos, I follow the coping scheme as shown in the drawing.

The presence of the Beech plank is a new for me.
I'd seen it on a few models before but thought it was just for decoration.
So I'll definitely do that.
What would be the correct width for a 1/65 scale?


Iutar : question .... ???? See photo.

 

[iutar]

Sorry, I didn't notice! Steering wheel = Rudder!

 

[HMSFly]

Sorry, I didn't notice! Steering wheel = Rudder!

Iutar,

What was the function of this Beech plank?

 

[iutar]

Dear Mark, Copper sheathing was introduced to protect the wooden planks of ships from damage by the Teredo mollusk, a species found in the Bermuda
and Caribbean regions. The teredo mollusk could devour a ship in a matter of days. During the American Revolutionary War, many English ships, unable to visit rebel shipyards, suffered from the worm.

The mollusk was named "shipworm".

The copper sheets were overlapped to prevent shipworm from entering through the gap.
But there was nothing to cover the very top edge of the first sheets. So they started nailing a beech strip over the first copper sheets. In addition, the top copper sheets were very thin, which was easily sucked away from the hull by water, and even more mollusks penetrated into the resulting gap.

A beech plank prevented the shipworm from penetrating beneath the copper sheets. The worm was reluctant to consume the wood, unfamiliar to the tropical seas of the Caribbean. Once the shipworm had gnawed through the beech plank, it was easy to replace.

When the opportunity arose, the top copper sheets were made thicker, and decided to abandon the beech strip.

 

[iutar]

What would be the correct width for a 1/65 scale?

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