…….you guys are driving me to booze and anti depressants….You're not that fragile, Grant...
Understood. Just not on the same night please...…….you guys are driving me to booze and anti depressants….
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Hi Nomad, regarding gunboats, from a manuscript of the time.
"Other dimensions followed by most manufacturers.
Cannon gauges Door widths
feet inches
36 3 1
24 2 10
18 2 8
12 2 5
12 2 4
8 2 3
6 2
4 1 9
The height of the hatches measures 3 inches less than the width.
The sogliette are the supports of the hatches, they form what the land gunners call a toggle , what makes it clear that the height of the sogliette must be proportionate to the caliber of the guns. The measurement is taken from above the deck planks to the support of the hatches.
Here are the measurements that are used by many manufacturers.
For 36-pound caliber guns, to the height of the sogliette, 2 feet, 2 inches; from 24, to the first battery, 2 feet, or 2 feet, 1 inch; to the second battery, 2 feet; from 18, to the first battery, 1 foot, 11 inches; to the second battery, 1 foot, 9 inches, or 1 foot, 8 inches; from 12, to the first battery, 1 foot, 10 inches; to the second battery, 1 foot, 6 inches; to third battery, 1 foot, 5 inches; from 8, to first battery, 1 foot, 8 inches; to second battery, 1 foot, 4 inches; on superstructures, 1 foot, 4 inches; from 6, to first battery, 1 foot, 6 inches; to second battery, 1 foot, 2inches , or 1 foot, 3 inches; on superstructures, 1 foot, 2 inches; from 4, to first battery, 1 foot, 2 inches; on superstructures, 1 foot, 2 inches.
OBSERVATIONS.
A few modern manufacturers, have given a little extra openness to the hatches. This means that they made them more open on the outside than on the inside, so as to direct the guns better against the enemy. In this they were right, but one must be careful not to make the hatches too wide, because one would expose oneself too much to the enemy's musketry and disengage the top of the vessel.
One must, above all, give a larger opening to the first forward hatch toward the front, and to the last rear hatch toward the rear, because these two guns are often used toward these directions, than perpendicular to the keel, and regardless of the openings given to these hatches, it is required to increase the width of the hatches by 2 inches. The naval officers, still desire that a hatch be perfused in front of the first hatch, not so much to increase the number of guns in the first battery, but to be able to move the first gun to this hatch in order to be able to aim in fighters more easily. The British open this hatch on most of their vessels. "
Translated with DeepL
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You definitely don't need us to do just that...…….you guys are driving me to booze and anti depressants….
@Frank48 - does this mean there would NOT be a gunport cover on the most forward hatch?
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Hi Paul,what I understand on the main deck the gunboats do not have capes . Frank
The sloop had usually no gunport lids where the guns were located on the open (without roof) gun deck area.
But had lids at gunports in the quarter deck area, in order to keep the rooms for the officers dry,
but also the first gunport fore under the poop deck had lids, because here the water would every time splash inside in heavy weather
Maybe it is helping, there is a contemporary fully rigged model existing of the HMS Atalanta, which was of the same class like the HMS Fly. The model was built in 1775, so the same year like the original ship
Here are some other contemporary models showing the principle of "lid or no lid" very good - all sloops from the 18th century
And there is also a contemporary drawing existing of the Atalante showing the gunport openings exactly
But had lids at gunports in the quarter deck area, in order to keep the rooms for the officers dry,
but also the first gunport fore under the poop deck had lids, because here the water would every time splash inside in heavy weather
Maybe it is helping, there is a contemporary fully rigged model existing of the HMS Atalanta, which was of the same class like the HMS Fly. The model was built in 1775, so the same year like the original ship
Here are some other contemporary models showing the principle of "lid or no lid" very good - all sloops from the 18th century
And there is also a contemporary drawing existing of the Atalante showing the gunport openings exactly
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Hi Mark. Fascinating discussion on the gunport lids and whether they were chasing ports or not. For what it's worth (totally different ship, totally different time frame) I also chose to depict mine as closed. Your decking is superb and just adds to an already superb-looking Fly!
Wow, I've been away for a while and have just returned to all this discussion and debate on gunport lids. It is all very interesting and thanks to those for taking the time to nut it out. The research you do on this sort of thing is very credible. Unlike my own research, which only extends as far as looking at other builds of the same model and, on aggregate, following their lead. But it has certainly given me food for thought, why some gunports have lids, or not, and the reasons for that. Thank you indeed for this input and your interest in my HMS Fly 
Good morning Mark. It is cool when the guys in the know debate aspects on our logs. So much information is shared we learn plenty. So….lid or no lid?Wow, I've been away for a while and have just returned to all this discussion and debate on gunport lids. It is all very interesting and thanks to those for taking the time to nut it out. The research you do on this sort of thing is very credible. Unlike my own research, which only extends as far as looking at other builds of the same model and, on aggregate, following their lead. But it has certainly given me food for thought, why some gunports have lids, or not, and the reasons for that. Thank you indeed for this input and your interest in my HMS Fly
. Cheers GrantSome will have lids, other not. Got to be diplomatic, keep everyone happyGood morning Mark. It is cool when the guys in the know debate aspects on our logs. So much information is shared we learn plenty. So….lid or no lid?
Kurt Konrath
Kurt Konrath
Then you get into the discussion of one piece top hinged or split doors top and bottom half as some US ships had.
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To me @Uwek 's comment made a lot of sense and gives a very plausible reason to have lids or not.Some will have lids, other not. Got to be diplomatic, keep everyone happy
Fascinating conversation though.
The dockyard and all work on my HMS Fly has been very quiet of late but there has at least been some signs of activity. Most of the upper deck fittings have been assembled although all still dry-fit at this stage. The companionway ladder leading from the quarterdeck is likely to interfere with a grating on the gundeck below. I had warning about this, fortunately, and had made appropriate adjustments to the hatch size earlier on. The upper half of the capstan nestled nicely on its counterpart below.
Binnacle, skylight and hatches. I notice many modellers apply a glaze to the window frames to emulate glass panes. Very classy. All my window frames got were a couple of hinges to suggest that they can be opened
The tiller and housing was reasonably straightforward, although it may get a bit more interesting when I get round to rigging it to the ship's wheel.
On the forecastle deck...
The hatches, which I assume to be steam hatches for the galley and stove below, are very, very small indeed. Still, I was determined to assemble them in the same manner as the larger hatches by ensuring that the corners of the combings are connected in half lap joints (blue circles), and that the longitudinal timbers of the hatch when viewed along the deck fore and aft are uninterrupted as they pass through the athwartships timber notches underneath (red arrows)
The upper decks have not been glued in place yet. I need to make sure everything that needs doing on the gundeck is done, and possibly the bow section work as well before making that commitment.
Thanks for checking in
Mark
Binnacle, skylight and hatches. I notice many modellers apply a glaze to the window frames to emulate glass panes. Very classy. All my window frames got were a couple of hinges to suggest that they can be opened
The tiller and housing was reasonably straightforward, although it may get a bit more interesting when I get round to rigging it to the ship's wheel.
On the forecastle deck...
The hatches, which I assume to be steam hatches for the galley and stove below, are very, very small indeed. Still, I was determined to assemble them in the same manner as the larger hatches by ensuring that the corners of the combings are connected in half lap joints (blue circles), and that the longitudinal timbers of the hatch when viewed along the deck fore and aft are uninterrupted as they pass through the athwartships timber notches underneath (red arrows)
The upper decks have not been glued in place yet. I need to make sure everything that needs doing on the gundeck is done, and possibly the bow section work as well before making that commitment.
Thanks for checking in
Mark
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Good morning Mark. Those are tiny hatches. The joinery is fantastic especially considering the size. You must have the measurements for the top decks exact to start the fittings prior to placement. I would be hesitant to do it this way as I would probably break off the fittings when gluing the deck onThe dockyard and all work on my HMS Fly has been very quiet of late but there has at least been some signs of activity. Most of the upper deck fittings have been assembled although all still dry-fit at this stage. The companionway ladder leading from the quarterdeck is likely to interfere with a grating on the gundeck below. I had warning about this, fortunately, and had made appropriate adjustments to the hatch size earlier on. The upper half of the capstan nestled nicely on its counterpart below.
View attachment 389480
Binnacle, skylight and hatches. I notice many modellers apply a glaze to the window frames to emulate glass panes. Very classy. All my window frames got were a couple of hinges to suggest that they can be opened
View attachment 389481
The tiller and housing was reasonably straightforward, although it may get a bit more interesting when I get round to rigging it to the ship's wheel.
View attachment 389482
On the forecastle deck...
View attachment 389483
The hatches, which I assume to be steam hatches for the galley and stove below, are very, very small indeed. Still, I was determined to assemble them in the same manner as the larger hatches by ensuring that the corners of the combings are connected in half lap joints (blue circles), and that the longitudinal timbers of the hatch when viewed along the deck fore and aft are uninterrupted as they pass through the athwartships timber notches underneath (red arrows)
View attachment 389498
The upper decks have not been glued in place yet. I need to make sure everything that needs doing on the gundeck is done, and possibly the bow section work as well before makling that commitment.
View attachment 389499
Thanks for checking in
Mark
. A really wonderful rendition of the Fly you are building. Cheers Grant
Very precise work Mark. I love your color management, especially with the grate combings.The dockyard and all work on my HMS Fly has been very quiet of late but there has at least been some signs of activity. Most of the upper deck fittings have been assembled although all still dry-fit at this stage. The companionway ladder leading from the quarterdeck is likely to interfere with a grating on the gundeck below. I had warning about this, fortunately, and had made appropriate adjustments to the hatch size earlier on. The upper half of the capstan nestled nicely on its counterpart below.
View attachment 389480
Binnacle, skylight and hatches. I notice many modellers apply a glaze to the window frames to emulate glass panes. Very classy. All my window frames got were a couple of hinges to suggest that they can be opened
View attachment 389481
The tiller and housing was reasonably straightforward, although it may get a bit more interesting when I get round to rigging it to the ship's wheel.
View attachment 389482
On the forecastle deck...
View attachment 389483
The hatches, which I assume to be steam hatches for the galley and stove below, are very, very small indeed. Still, I was determined to assemble them in the same manner as the larger hatches by ensuring that the corners of the combings are connected in half lap joints (blue circles), and that the longitudinal timbers of the hatch when viewed along the deck fore and aft are uninterrupted as they pass through the athwartships timber notches underneath (red arrows)
View attachment 389498
The upper decks have not been glued in place yet. I need to make sure everything that needs doing on the gundeck is done, and possibly the bow section work as well before makling that commitment.
View attachment 389499
Thanks for checking in
Mark
Also, I'm just noticing your tool storage boxes in the background, nice.
I love the care you are taking to make sure everything is just right!
Nicely added parts on the deck, Mark. In terms of construction and painting.The dockyard and all work on my HMS Fly has been very quiet of late but there has at least been some signs of activity. Most of the upper deck fittings have been assembled although all still dry-fit at this stage. The companionway ladder leading from the quarterdeck is likely to interfere with a grating on the gundeck below. I had warning about this, fortunately, and had made appropriate adjustments to the hatch size earlier on. The upper half of the capstan nestled nicely on its counterpart below.
View attachment 389480
Binnacle, skylight and hatches. I notice many modellers apply a glaze to the window frames to emulate glass panes. Very classy. All my window frames got were a couple of hinges to suggest that they can be opened
View attachment 389481
The tiller and housing was reasonably straightforward, although it may get a bit more interesting when I get round to rigging it to the ship's wheel.
View attachment 389482
On the forecastle deck...
View attachment 389483
The hatches, which I assume to be steam hatches for the galley and stove below, are very, very small indeed. Still, I was determined to assemble them in the same manner as the larger hatches by ensuring that the corners of the combings are connected in half lap joints (blue circles), and that the longitudinal timbers of the hatch when viewed along the deck fore and aft are uninterrupted as they pass through the athwartships timber notches underneath (red arrows)
View attachment 389498
The upper decks have not been glued in place yet. I need to make sure everything that needs doing on the gundeck is done, and possibly the bow section work as well before making that commitment.
View attachment 389499
Thanks for checking in
Mark
Regard, Peter