HMS Sovereign of the Seas - Bashing DeAgostini Beyond Believable Boundaries

RDN1954 said:
I won't comment anymore on the demolition derby you're undertaking ;), instead, I would like to address something else I find difficult to understand. So please, take no offense, but when looking at your last two pictures, I can't help but notice the close proximity of the two most outboard (port/starboard) gunports and the two aftmost gunports(again port/starboard) facing sideways. Do you still have sufficient room to be able to install the cannons, carriers and other hardware, without running into some interference issues?

Kind regards,

Johan

PS I admire your bravity, don't think I'd find the guts to go where you went with your build...Okay
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Very astute! The proximity of the outboard stern chasers to the stern-most side gun ports is a point of several conversations regrading HMS Sovereign of the Seas. Not all of the ports have guns. The Sovereign has 118 gun ports and only 102 guns. Guns are often moved from one port to another if the tactical situation requires it. For the stern quarter, there may be enough room for guns to exists on the stern and on the broadside at the same time, but the spacing is very close. It helps that at those corners, only the broadside or only the stern chaser would typically be used at a time if there is room for both. If not, then one gun would be moved from the side port to the stern port or vice-versa as needed in battle, and that would not happen often.

As for kit bashing, don't fear your tools. Only your model should fear your tools. :D Most screw-ups when bashing can be fixed by patching with wood and glue in the early stages. It's a lot worse if you have to correct something after final planking is in place or when rigging crowds your hand out of the problem area.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Very astute! The proximity of the outboard stern chasers to the stern-most side gun ports is a point of several conversations regrading HMS Sovereign of the Seas. Not all of the ports have guns. The Sovereign has 118 gun ports and only 102 guns. Guns are often moved from one port to another if the tactical situation requires it. For the stern quarter, there may be enough room for guns to exists on the stern and on the broadside at the same time, but the spacing is very close. It helps that at those corners, only the broadside or only the stern chaser would typically be used at a time if there is room for both. If not, then one gun would be moved from the side port to the stern port or vice-versa as needed in battle, and that would not happen often.

As for kit bashing, don't fear your tools. Only your model should fear your tools. :D Most screw-ups when bashing can be fixed by patching with wood and glue in the early stages. It's a lot worse if you have to correct something after final planking is in place or when rigging crowds your hand out of the problem area.
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Like when the bits come unglued while you’re tightening the halyards to the belaying pins.
 
Vfordyce said:
After watching the video on the Batavia, I presume they used a smaller bore gun with a doubled range for chase guns. That way they could hit from farther away. Are you planning on using a different gun for the chase Jagtkannone?
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Yes. The broadside culverin drake barrels I am using are 35mm long. A smaller carriage will be used for the stern chasers, but the difference between the side culverin drake (9.5' long) and the stern chase culverins (11.5' long) is significant enough that different sized barrels should be used, but I don't have slender barrels which are 38-40mm long in my parts box yet. It's hard to find aftermarket barrels that are long and slender. They all seem to have similar ratio of length to diameter. All kits I have seen use barrels of the same size wherever they are mounted, which is not correct. I can easily spot this on a model.
 
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Heinrich said:
Hi Johan. If Kurt will allow me to chip in - aft guns were seldom permanently mounted. On the Dutch ships the two most rearward cannons were simply moved aft when the ship was being chased. If this was also the custom on British ships I don't know.
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Agreed. BUT PLEASE do not hesitate to comment on this thread. All comments are useful. I can only imagine the amount of mistakes I made reading other build logs where I copied something that was not correct because no one said anything other than "nice build". You're not helping anyone by staying silent. And if someone corrects you on something in the forum with new information, it serves everybody.
 
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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Very astute! The proximity of the outboard stern chasers to the stern-most side gun ports is a point of several conversations regrading HMS Sovereign of the Seas. Not all of the ports have guns. The Sovereign has 118 gun ports and only 102 guns. Guns are often moved from one port to another if the tactical situation requires it. For the stern quarter, there may be enough room for guns to exists on the stern and on the broadside at the same time, but the spacing is very close. It helps that at those corners, only the broadside or only the stern chaser would typically be used at a time if there is room for both. If not, then one gun would be moved from the side port to the stern port or vice-versa as needed in battle, and that would not happen often.

As for kit bashing, don't fear your tools. Only your model should fear your tools. :D Most screw-ups when bashing can be fixed by patching with wood and glue in the early stages. It's a lot worse if you have to correct something after final planking is in place or when rigging crowds your hand out of the problem area.
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Thanks Kurt, and Heinrich, for taking the time to answer me.
It makes a lot more sense now, other than wondering the hard labor that went to rearranging the guns from one port to another under a lot of pressure...
I am not familiar at all with military operations on any ship of war, so I didn't know guns could be rearranged, based on the tactical situation.

Been there, done that; all the rigging in place and then coming to the realization you need to fix or repair deck-mounted equipment, or having to repaint the bowsprit, after rigging, or...
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Agreed. BUT PLEASE do not hesitate to comment on this thread. All comments are useful. I can only imagine the amount of mistakes I made reading other build logs where I copied something that was not correct because no one said anything other than "nice build". You're not helping anyone by staying silent. And if someone corrects you on something in the forum with new information, it serves everybody.
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Not to mention that reading the build logs and asking questions,if something is not understood, is a learning experience.
An old Dutch saying is that one's never too old to learn, I'm pretty sure that every language has a similar expression.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Yes. The broadside culverin drake barrels I am using are 32mm long. A smaller carriage will be used for the stern chasers, but the difference between the side culverin drake (9.5' long) and the stern chase culverins (11.5' long) is significant enough that different sized barrels should be used, but I don't have slender barrels which are 38-40mm long in my parts box yet. It's hard to find aftermarket barrels that are long and slender. They all seem to have similar ratio of length to diameter. All kits I have seen use barrels of the same size wherever they are mounted, which is not correct. I can easily spot this on a model.
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I think I read somewhere that someone turned his own. Maybe it was wood. Now that’s detail!
 
RDN1954 said:
Thanks Kurt, and Heinrich, for taking the time to answer me.
It makes a lot more sense now, other than wondering the hard labor that went to rearranging the guns from one port to another under a lot of pressure...
I am not familiar at all with military operations on any ship of war, so I didn't know guns could be rearranged, based on the tactical situation.

Been there, done that; all the rigging in place and then coming to the realization you need to fix or repair deck-mounted equipment, or having to repaint the bowsprit, after rigging, or...
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Regarding the gun position issue, it's one of those things we pick up while researching our models. When you see something you need to fix, after you scream "Awwww F**K!", you grab your tools and calmly say to yourself, "I am a leaf on the wind... watch how I fly". Then you fix it... for the next three hours. I've had to repair a cut shroud once without replacement line. The temper tantrum lasted quite a long time.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Regarding the gun position issue, it's one of those things we pick up while researching our models. When you see something you need to fix, after you scream "Awwww F**K!", you grab your tools and calmly say to yourself, "I am a leaf on the wind... watch how I fly". Then you fix it... for the next three hours. I've had to repair a cut shroud once without replacement line. The temper tantrum lasted quite a long time.
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Unfortunately, been there, done that.
 
Got a new tool today. This lithium battery powered Dremel 7350 is great for getting in tighter places and drilling precise holes for things like trenailing. It's light and very quiet compared to the A/C powered Dremel 4300, and has fair torque but a single speed of only 12,000 rpm. It only cost $29.97. I'm going to use a three jaw chuck on it instead of the collet that it comes with so it can use very small drill bits.

20211103_212925.jpg
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
WARNING: The following is not for the faint of heart. If you dread doing major hull surgery, you will be traumatized.

The upper portion of the counter was cut away and rebuilt. The counter piece was re-used. No models were harmed in the making of this modification.

View attachment 266178

View attachment 266179

View attachment 266180

Salvaged and reused the counter section.
View attachment 266181

Used some scrap hull strips to fill in the counter
View attachment 266182

Profile looks better.
View attachment 266183

There! Now the stern chasers line up with the decks properly. The gun port positions were re-drawn. A few holes need to be patched, but I'd call this a success.
View attachment 266184

Added stained bamboo scrap strips as planks on the counter to reinforce it and provide thickness
View attachment 266185

Uwe took a different approach. He extended the stern out a bit at the bottom, then rebuilt the profile of the counter. Interesting how we came to the same conclusion regarding the need to reshape the counter. If I had to start over, I would have lowered the lower gun deck, but it was too early in the build then to see which direction the hull shape was going.
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I do like the idea of a surgical intervention into the boat building process. It's tricky but I find it very satisfying; more than the normal tasks
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Got a new tool today. This lithium battery powered Dremel 7350 is great for getting in tighter places and drilling precise holes for things like trenailing. It's light and very quiet compared to the A/C powered Dremel 4300, and has fair torque but a single speed of only 12,000 rpm. It only cost $29.97. I'm going to use a three jaw chuck on it instead of the collet that it comes with so it can use very small drill bits.

View attachment 267226
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Where did you get the chuck?
 
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