HMS Victory Mantua 1:78 (first build) by Grant Tyler
- Thread starter GrantTyler
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Excellent idea, Roger!
Good morning Paul. Now that is a simple yet clever solution. I will give that a go and see if it fits my Victory. Thanks. Cheers Grant
Good morning Heinrich. I agree, however my Pinnace hanging from the quarter Davits is starboard. I want this to be on the “viewing “ side. Paul may have solved this if the flags look good that way, I.E blowing forward. Cheers Grant
Good morning Jack. Good question. I will have a look see. Cheers Grant
Good morning Roger. I am going to have them curled so this will also help. You guys have given some great ideas so I must do some testing and see how it all looks. Thanks. Grant
Good morning Kurt. Thanks for this. This may help in future builds. We never stop learning here. Cheers Grant
Hello Mark…..Sooooo many ropes
Glad you have it all under control skipper
- I don’t think I’m ever in control. I am super stoked to have added all the rigging- it makes it look crazy mad. Not sure if a Victory in port would really have them all up without sails tho. Was fun tho. Cheers Grant
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Not being in control is, IMHO, a constant state for a modeler, apart from the odd one out; the ship is in control and is leading and misleading you.
Having said that, your Victory is a true masterpiece and an challenge I am not willing to accept; kudos!
I think your flag-issue is solved, if not to your liking, you could always opt turning the flags upside down... No offense!
If I could add - with the wind astern (while sailing) flags normally blow forward...
Or maybe it's different in the southern hemisphere .
Or maybe it's different in the southern hemisphere
.
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That's also why you need to turn the flags upside down once you pass the Equator, isn't it?If I could add - with the wind astern (while sailing) flags normally blow forward...
Or maybe it's different in the southern hemisphere
Good morning Greg. Thank you. I am in agreement. To do the Victory justice and really get this model spot on, it would take plenty years.I am in awe of your work, Something like this would take me 20 years
Not being in control is, IMHO, a constant state for a modeler, apart from the odd one out; the ship is in control and is leading and misleading you.
Having said that, your Victory is a true masterpiece and an challenge I am not willing to accept; kudos!
I think your flag-issue is solved, if not to your liking, you could always opt turning the flags upside down... No offense!
If I could add - with the wind astern (while sailing) flags normally blow forward...
Or maybe it's different in the southern hemisphere
Everything is upside down here on the tip of Africa. An interesting experience.Cheers Grant
Good morning.
Flags: Here is what I have learned. (In Grants brief summary form)
The Royal Navy designed a system of flags for ships in the fleet to communicate with each other. It was rather primitive when looking back but clearly it worked for them.
In 1799 Admiral Lord Howe developed a numbered system 0-9 which would transmit to letters, words or messages when flown in certain combinations and referred back to the signal book.
In 1800 Capt Sir Holm Popham improved this cumbersome system to include flags which themselves would be words or sentences when hung in a combination- called the vocabulary system.
These sets of flags were stored in the signal or flag locker at the stern of the Victory.
On Grants Victory I simulated canvas covers on my lockers :
Admiral Nelson hoisted the famous message at the time of Trafalgar “England expects that every man will do his duty” using this system.
Here is a quote from John Pasco who was on board HMS Victory:
This message would have looked like this :
No messages from Grants Victory
My Flags : Mantua has provided the following : An ensign, a Union Jack, St George’s cross and a long hanging decorative flag.
I have tested the Ensign and I will be hanging them in a windless scenario. For Paul (@dockattner ) and Johan (@RDN1954 ) they will not be upside down. They will be curled and the one sided effect is not so visible. I’m not sure I will hoist the decorative flag tho.
The Mantua flags are too big from a scale point of view but look cool- so Grants Victory going to have some oversized flags.
And…. I have a confession to make: I have been playing with my Cazador the last two days. …..Eish
.
Cheers Grant
Flags: Here is what I have learned. (In Grants brief summary form)
The Royal Navy designed a system of flags for ships in the fleet to communicate with each other. It was rather primitive when looking back but clearly it worked for them.
In 1799 Admiral Lord Howe developed a numbered system 0-9 which would transmit to letters, words or messages when flown in certain combinations and referred back to the signal book.
In 1800 Capt Sir Holm Popham improved this cumbersome system to include flags which themselves would be words or sentences when hung in a combination- called the vocabulary system.
These sets of flags were stored in the signal or flag locker at the stern of the Victory.
On Grants Victory I simulated canvas covers on my lockers :
Admiral Nelson hoisted the famous message at the time of Trafalgar “England expects that every man will do his duty” using this system.
Here is a quote from John Pasco who was on board HMS Victory:
This message would have looked like this :
No messages from Grants Victory
My Flags : Mantua has provided the following : An ensign, a Union Jack, St George’s cross and a long hanging decorative flag.
I have tested the Ensign and I will be hanging them in a windless scenario. For Paul (@dockattner ) and Johan (@RDN1954 ) they will not be upside down
. They will be curled and the one sided effect is not so visible. I’m not sure I will hoist the decorative flag tho.The Mantua flags are too big from a scale point of view but look cool- so Grants Victory going to have some oversized flags.
And…. I have a confession to make: I have been playing with my Cazador the last two days. …..Eish
.Cheers Grant
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Most interesting the message system Grant. It would never work for me though. By the time I had figured out the message, the battle would be over!Good morning.
Flags: Here is what I have learned. (In Grants brief summary form)
The Royal Navy designed a system of flags for ships in the fleet to communicate with each other. It was rather primitive when looking back but clearly it worked for them.
In 1799 Admiral Lord Howe developed a numbered system 0-9 which would transmit to letters, words or messages when flown in certain combinations and referred back to the signal book.
In 1800 Capt Sir Holm Popham improved this cumbersome system to include flags which themselves would be words or sentences when hung in a combination- called the vocabulary system.
These sets of flags were stored in the signal or flag locker at the stern of the Victory.
On Grants Victory I simulated canvas covers on my lockers :
View attachment 353440
Admiral Nelson hoisted the famous message at the time of Trafalgar “England expects that every man will do his duty” using this system.
Here is a quote from John Pasco who was on board HMS Victory:
View attachment 353441
This message would have looked like this :
View attachment 353442
No messages from Grants Victory
My Flags : Mantua has provided the following : An ensign, a Union Jack, St George’s cross and a long hanging decorative flag.
View attachment 353443
I have tested the Ensign and I will be hanging them in a windless scenario. For Paul (@dockattner ) and Johan (@RDN1954 ) they will not be upside down
The Mantua flags are too big from a scale point of view but look cool- so Grants Victory going to have some oversized flags.
And…. I have a confession to make: I have been playing with my Cazador the last two days. …..Eish
Cheers Grant
And an update on my dreaded stern :
I had to include the Davits from the stern. I have seen these in some pics of the Portsmouth Victory e.g.
However it is common consensus that the Victory at Trafalgar did not have these. I was not going to include them but the Mantua etching had a cut outs for them. I could not close these nicely. So Grants Victory has Stern Davits.
I also made a couple more of the decorative railings. About 50 to go
.
Cheers Grant
I had to include the Davits from the stern. I have seen these in some pics of the Portsmouth Victory e.g.
However it is common consensus that the Victory at Trafalgar did not have these. I was not going to include them but the Mantua etching had a cut outs for them. I could not close these nicely. So Grants Victory has Stern Davits.
I also made a couple more of the decorative railings. About 50 to go
.Cheers Grant
True story. I did what I could modifying the Mantua kit, but sometimes its just a no go. Your comment is however cause for consternation re the Cazador, as I am chopping it a bit. Ahh, its a fun build not too complex and a model for a hole in my bar. One day when Im big I will build a ship with reference books and accurately.Twin Exhausts, nogal!
.So is episode three of the name of Barentz ship out yet?
.Cheers
Grant
Good morning.
Flags: I used kit polyester flags and some wood glue and water mix to get some shape.
I did not wrap them around a dowel as the glue/water mix dries shinny. I shaped them, held the shape with pegs and lightly painted the glue mix on.
Dried lighty with hairdryer, removed pegs prior to dries and then leave to dry in container to hold the shape. Trial and error approach to get the shape I want.
The stern insignia flag is temporarily hoisted. I have curled it to simulate a windless scenario. The curl also solves the one side print issue- mostly.
The Union Jack and St George’s cross are a little bit big for scale however I will hoist these. I could not hoist them onto the mast peak as the 2 back stays get in the way. On research I found it was not uncommon for ships of this era to use a “Pigstick”
A sketch of a pigstick approach. This will solve the stay issue.
Let’s see.
Cheers Grant
Flags: I used kit polyester flags and some wood glue and water mix to get some shape.
I did not wrap them around a dowel as the glue/water mix dries shinny. I shaped them, held the shape with pegs and lightly painted the glue mix on.
Dried lighty with hairdryer, removed pegs prior to dries and then leave to dry in container to hold the shape. Trial and error approach to get the shape I want.
The stern insignia flag is temporarily hoisted. I have curled it to simulate a windless scenario. The curl also solves the one side print issue- mostly.
The Union Jack and St George’s cross are a little bit big for scale however I will hoist these. I could not hoist them onto the mast peak as the 2 back stays get in the way. On research I found it was not uncommon for ships of this era to use a “Pigstick”
A sketch of a pigstick approach. This will solve the stay issue.
Let’s see.
Cheers Grant
Good solution Grant, man that flag looks huge once it’s hoisted.
In fact, British flags are easy to paint them yourself using self-adhesive tape for masks.
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Pigstick...will the animal references on this ship never stop?
Good evening Roger. Yes that huge flag….could be used as another sail
. I am going to put all the Mantua flags on however won’t tie them off. I may change these at a point as they are just too big.In comparison:
Hello Vladimir. See pic above- they are just too big. I will maybe look at making or buy some more to scale flags. Cheers Grant
Hello Paul…..is it the Victory or Noah’s arkPigstick...will the animal references on this ship never stop?
. Flags a little large I think. Let’s see once all on what it looks like. I won’t tie them off.Cheers Grant