HMS Victory Mantua 1:78 (first build) by Grant Tyler

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Good morning. Thanks- I always appreciate your input- no no Nike. Here are pics of my lines without the direct sunlight. It’s 11am and a beautiful day so probably more bright than it’s display area. I have taken pics of the lines which I sometimes see a little fuzz when the pics are taken with the sunlight behind. Which lines are you referring to as if they are easy to replace and are too fuzzy I will do this? The natural lines are not kit lines and do cost a little. Cheers Grant
Sooooo many ropes Redface
Glad you have it all under control skipper Thumbsup
 

Heinrich

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Nice looking flags. Do you need to have them flying straight out (with curls) or can you droop them in such a way the dull side is hidden in folds but the effect of the full colours is outwardly still there? Deceive the viewer’s eye in other words.
Excellent idea, Roger!
 
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Have them flying the opposite direction - you don't have sails so who is to say what direction the wind is blowing... Or maybe I don't understand the issue???
Good morning Paul. Now that is a simple yet clever solution. I will give that a go and see if it fits my Victory. Thanks. Cheers Grant
I pressed the "laugh" button, because I don't think that anybody will be able to tell the difference between the Port and Starboard sides - except you ...!
Good morning Heinrich. I agree, however my Pinnace hanging from the quarter Davits is starboard. I want this to be on the “viewing “ side. Paul may have solved this if the flags look good that way, I.E blowing forward. Cheers Grant
 
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quick question, if you don't mind. When you look at the scale of your model, are the sizes of the flags within scale too? I remember doing the Mirage and I didn't include the flags because I found them too big for the ship.
Good morning Jack. Good question. I will have a look see. Cheers Grant
Nice looking flags. Do you need to have them flying straight out (with curls) or can you droop them in such a way the dull side is hidden in folds but the effect of the full colours is outwardly still there? Deceive the viewer’s eye in other words.
Good morning Roger. I am going to have them curled so this will also help. You guys have given some great ideas so I must do some testing and see how it all looks. Thanks. Grant
On the beeswax subject, I was taught one you have coated them with one or two draws thru the was, pull them thru finger tips held tight to help press them into the rope and hold down the fuzz. Doing this quickly also heats up the was a bit to help it sink into the rope instead of just covering it up.
Good morning Kurt. Thanks for this. This may help in future builds. We never stop learning here. Cheers Grant
Sooooo many ropes Redface
Glad you have it all under control skipper Thumbsup
Hello Mark…..ROTFROTF- I don’t think I’m ever in control. I am super stoked to have added all the rigging- it makes it look crazy mad. Not sure if a Victory in port would really have them all up without sails tho. Was fun tho. Cheers Grant
 
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I don’t think I’m ever in control. I am super stoked to have added all the rigging- it makes it look crazy mad.
Not being in control is, IMHO, a constant state for a modeler, apart from the odd one out; the ship is in control and is leading and misleading you.
Having said that, your Victory is a true masterpiece and an challenge I am not willing to accept; kudos!
I think your flag-issue is solved, if not to your liking, you could always opt turning the flags upside down... No offense! :eek:
 
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Not being in control is, IMHO, a constant state for a modeler, apart from the odd one out; the ship is in control and is leading and misleading you.
Having said that, your Victory is a true masterpiece and an challenge I am not willing to accept; kudos!
I think your flag-issue is solved, if not to your liking, you could always opt turning the flags upside down... No offense! :eek:
If I could add - with the wind astern (while sailing) flags normally blow forward...

Or maybe it's different in the southern hemisphere ROTF ROTF ROTF.
Good morning Greg. Thank you. I am in agreement. To do the Victory justice and really get this model spot on, it would take plenty years.
ROTF ROTF Everything is upside down here on the tip of Africa. An interesting experience.
Cheers Grant
 
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Good morning.

Flags: Here is what I have learned. (In Grants brief summary form)

The Royal Navy designed a system of flags for ships in the fleet to communicate with each other. It was rather primitive when looking back but clearly it worked for them.

In 1799 Admiral Lord Howe developed a numbered system 0-9 which would transmit to letters, words or messages when flown in certain combinations and referred back to the signal book.

In 1800 Capt Sir Holm Popham improved this cumbersome system to include flags which themselves would be words or sentences when hung in a combination- called the vocabulary system.

These sets of flags were stored in the signal or flag locker at the stern of the Victory.

On Grants Victory I simulated canvas covers on my lockers :
54EA8144-9285-42F5-BEE0-B0BA1347B4E2.jpeg

Admiral Nelson hoisted the famous message at the time of Trafalgar “England expects that every man will do his duty” using this system.
Here is a quote from John Pasco who was on board HMS Victory:
A2FAAAD3-8C54-4983-B6E9-676E62B54E86.jpeg

This message would have looked like this :
77736B89-925A-4B90-9C39-89E3B6DE8DBE.jpeg

No messages from Grants Victory ROTF

My Flags : Mantua has provided the following : An ensign, a Union Jack, St George’s cross and a long hanging decorative flag.
0AFED129-76CE-42C7-95F6-5A06FCC0BEF7.jpeg

I have tested the Ensign and I will be hanging them in a windless scenario. For Paul (@dockattner ) and Johan (@RDN1954 ) they will not be upside downROTF. They will be curled and the one sided effect is not so visible. I’m not sure I will hoist the decorative flag tho.

The Mantua flags are too big from a scale point of view but look cool- so Grants Victory going to have some oversized flags.

And…. I have a confession to make: I have been playing with my Cazador the last two days. …..Eish:eek::rolleyes:ROTF.

Cheers Grant
 

Heinrich

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Good morning.

Flags: Here is what I have learned. (In Grants brief summary form)

The Royal Navy designed a system of flags for ships in the fleet to communicate with each other. It was rather primitive when looking back but clearly it worked for them.

In 1799 Admiral Lord Howe developed a numbered system 0-9 which would transmit to letters, words or messages when flown in certain combinations and referred back to the signal book.

In 1800 Capt Sir Holm Popham improved this cumbersome system to include flags which themselves would be words or sentences when hung in a combination- called the vocabulary system.

These sets of flags were stored in the signal or flag locker at the stern of the Victory.

On Grants Victory I simulated canvas covers on my lockers :
View attachment 353440

Admiral Nelson hoisted the famous message at the time of Trafalgar “England expects that every man will do his duty” using this system.
Here is a quote from John Pasco who was on board HMS Victory:
View attachment 353441

This message would have looked like this :
View attachment 353442

No messages from Grants Victory ROTF

My Flags : Mantua has provided the following : An ensign, a Union Jack, St George’s cross and a long hanging decorative flag.
View attachment 353443

I have tested the Ensign and I will be hanging them in a windless scenario. For Paul (@dockattner ) and Johan (@RDN1954 ) they will not be upside downROTF. They will be curled and the one sided effect is not so visible. I’m not sure I will hoist the decorative flag tho.

The Mantua flags are too big from a scale point of view but look cool- so Grants Victory going to have some oversized flags.

And…. I have a confession to make: I have been playing with my Cazador the last two days. …..Eish:eek::rolleyes:ROTF.

Cheers Grant
Most interesting the message system Grant. It would never work for me though. By the time I had figured out the message, the battle would be over!
 
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And an update on my dreaded stern :

I had to include the Davits from the stern. I have seen these in some pics of the Portsmouth Victory e.g.
A063BB75-159A-4994-8A2B-47EEDFB4EB1D.jpeg

However it is common consensus that the Victory at Trafalgar did not have these. I was not going to include them but the Mantua etching had a cut outs for them. I could not close these nicely. So Grants Victory has Stern Davits.

I also made a couple more of the decorative railings. About 50 to goRedface.
ADE93DA3-991D-426A-AF81-27BCE12CBEC0.jpeg
Cheers Grant
 

Heinrich

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Twin Exhausts, nogal! ROTF Seriously though, Grant - I am in agreement. Sometimes, it is better just to build a kit, like it was designed. Changing things around just opens the proverbial tin of worms!
 
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Twin Exhausts, nogal! ROTF Seriously though, Grant - I am in agreement. Sometimes, it is better just to build a kit, like it was designed. Changing things around just opens the proverbial tin of worms!
True story. I did what I could modifying the Mantua kit, but sometimes its just a no go. Your comment is however cause for consternation re the Cazador, as I am chopping it a bit. Ahh, its a fun build not too complex and a model for a hole in my bar. One day when Im big I will build a ship with reference books and accurately. ;) .

So is episode three of the name of Barentz ship out yet?:D.
Cheers
Grant
 
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Good morning.
Flags: I used kit polyester flags and some wood glue and water mix to get some shape.
I did not wrap them around a dowel as the glue/water mix dries shinny. I shaped them, held the shape with pegs and lightly painted the glue mix on.
C834D849-2643-4556-8A95-1EE7B0BC461D.jpeg
Dried lighty with hairdryer, removed pegs prior to dries and then leave to dry in container to hold the shape. Trial and error approach to get the shape I want.
B7FE16B3-A9A3-4C76-ABD4-836EEF14A032.jpeg

The stern insignia flag is temporarily hoisted. I have curled it to simulate a windless scenario. The curl also solves the one side print issue- mostly. ;)
8CAB8C60-C425-4799-ADE4-139368331C12.jpeg

The Union Jack and St George’s cross are a little bit big for scale however I will hoist these. I could not hoist them onto the mast peak as the 2 back stays get in the way. On research I found it was not uncommon for ships of this era to use a “Pigstick”

A sketch of a pigstick approach. This will solve the stay issue.
9E250905-4509-45F1-8DA4-09AC39EEF1AA.jpeg
Let’s see.
Cheers Grant
 
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Good solution Grant, man that flag looks huge once it’s hoisted.
Good evening Roger. Yes that huge flag….could be used as another sail ROTF . I am going to put all the Mantua flags on however won’t tie them off. I may change these at a point as they are just too big.In comparison:
26AD3F13-E087-4870-8269-7DF6643A9116.jpeg
In fact, British flags are easy to paint them yourself using self-adhesive tape for masks.
Hello Vladimir. See pic above- they are just too big. I will maybe look at making or buy some more to scale flags. Cheers Grant
Pigstick...will the animal references on this ship never stop? ROTF ROTF ROTF
Hello Paul…..is it the Victory or Noah’s arkROTF. Flags a little large I think. Let’s see once all on what it looks like. I won’t tie them off.

Cheers Grant
 
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