Hohenzollernmodell 1660-1670 Scale 1/75 POF build by Stephan Kertész (Steef66)

Dear Stephan
I would like to praise you for the beautiful and special choice, and thank you for sharing with us the challenging creative process. I have no doubt that we will learn a lot from you.
I will join to the other friends and follow with great curiosity :)
good luck my dear friend Thumbsup:)
 
I am always excited to pick up random hints and ideas from the posts of forum members adventures with their builds. In this case finding a cheap, used table to harvest wood for the bulkheads. Yikes! Something I never thought of. The local second hand store has such things cheaper than buying the wood billets...especially if they have a lot of wear.
Thanks Jim, yes a lot cheaper then the woodstore. Wen I'm remember it correct, I payed 15 euro. And the seller delivered me the table at home without paying extra. And the great thing about old furniture is, the wood is dried for a long time.
 
Dear Stephan
I would like to praise you for the beautiful and special choice, and thank you for sharing with us the challenging creative process. I have no doubt that we will learn a lot from you.
I will join to the other friends and follow with great curiosity :)
good luck my dear friend Thumbsup:)
Thanks Shota for joining and those kind words.
 
So this is a particularly fascinating build for me, for both the subject and the design process.

You are teaching yourself AutoCAD. Had you investigated other design software and decided that CAD was best suited to the process?

I am similarly possessed by a desire to design a fully framed ship on the computer, and I have been wondering which drawing package offered the greatest design versatility without too burdensome a learning curve.

I am excited to see your ship rise from these earliest design phases!
 
So this is a particularly fascinating build for me, for both the subject and the design process.

You are teaching yourself AutoCAD. Had you investigated other design software and decided that CAD was best suited to the process?

I am similarly possessed by a desire to design a fully framed ship on the computer, and I have been wondering which drawing package offered the greatest design versatility without too burdensome a learning curve.

I am excited to see your ship rise from these earliest design phases!
Thanks Marc to visit my log and to follow.
Yes I looked to other design software like Delftship for example. The basics of CAD I learned last year, so to go further with that makes it easier for me. It seems that Delftship is special designed for shipbuilding. But I tried it and the layout didn't make cense to mee. I also couldn't find any YouTube video's that where clear enough for me. So I decided to go further in AutoCAD. The only thing you need in AutoCAD is a lot of re-thinking about how it will be in 3D. My goal is to get in the end prints in pdf to use to cut the parts out. This part I did till now already took me a few months to design, read and study. I think it will still need a couple of months to compleet.

You have taken on a monumental task and I look forward to follow along !!
Thanks Alan for visiting my log and following it.
 
By the way, the drawings in the book are not accurate. There a major mistakes in the waterlines and in the bulkheads. The distance between the waterlines are not equal and the bulk head 17 is drawn 2 times and also different from each other.
Thanks for visiting my log and all the likes.
There is something I want to highlight in my log. The problems I found in the drawing that came with the book.
When you start drafting ship plans in CAD you soon notice that things can be inaccuraat. CAD is a very precise program to use and can be accurate to 0,0001 mm. An accuracy you don't need in your model, but the program uses this.
I can explain how things are done but here (LINK) you can find a nice pdf on NRG how it's done.

Don't expect that your first attempts will be perfect. You discover more and more when you do this the first time. How the best way to drafting the lines of the plans in CAD, but also the function of all these lines in the drawing.
So after my first 2 attempts I discovered that the waterlines and the station lines (the vertical lines on the half breadth plan, on a right angle of 90 degrees on the waterlines) These terms you can find back in the document I mentioned before. The half breadth plan is the view on the top of the ship at different levels of the waterlines, the body plan is the view on the stern or bow. Back to my drawing, I discovered that the waterlines and station lines on my plan don't have the same distance of each other. This was the first inaccurate point in the drawings. After I made sure that the drawing in CAD have the right format (You can make your drawing in 1/1 scale, what I also did). I measure the distance between the fist station line on the stern to the last on the bow. That distance I divide by the numbers of lines after the first. After that you got the distance between every line of your plan. I did the same to the waterlines of the body plan.
I got 2 drawings after doing this and drafting the lines of the plan
Hol2dekontw.jpgHol2dekontw2.jpg

The second mistake I discovered was made in de station lines. Line 17 was on both side drawn and both where different

Hol2dekontw3.jpg

I had to find out what is going on here en decided to leave these open in my drawing of the single parts.

I made from each curved waterline and every curved bodyline a single drawing like it is till now. What would look like this:

Hol2dekontw4b.jpg

For example I took Waterline 7 (left) and station line 7 (right) Distance A should be in both drawings be the same. This wasn't always the case. The third mistake in the drawing. I had to filter out these mistakes and make a new drawing that would be the perfect middle ground between the two would be. So I made 2 new sets of drawings. 1 new waterlines drawing out of the data of the original station lines and vice versa. And when this was done, I lay the drawings over each other and look where the difference where between them. I corrected the whole thing to a smooth line that was between the two.
The end result I put together in a 3D drawing.

3D layers.jpg


With the function orbit you can look around your model. And find all the spots that don't look right in your eyes. just by looking slowly from all angles you see mistakes in lines that don't fit to the lines next to it. You need to correct thes line in the 2D drawings and try again in 3D till it looks perfect and like a smooth hull. For me was this the way to do it. Maybe there are programs they can do this for you or there are commands in CAD that can do this. Let the experts correct me. But it works in this way and I was happy. (And it kept me off the streets because of the huge amount of work it required) I also filtered out the mistake of the names of the frames in this way. I discovered that the line 17 on the right side was correct and the left 17 was something around 15. Actually it didn't fit anywhere so I decided to cancel that line.

So far about these corrections.

I found out in the log of @Olympic1911 that the first 3 frames not correspondent with the pictures of the ship. I did ignore this mistake because of the scale where I would build in. But that doesn't mean that I didn't checked it. Actually the difference between the drawing and the picture was more and less filtered out by the corrections I dit in the drawing. The difference was still there but a lot less.

Thanks for your visit and time to read this heavy stuff.
 
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Respect for your monumental effort to design a ship in AutoCAD without having experience in using this program.
Thanks Herman. I learn quick.
And I start to love the program. Sometimes I do a redo because I discover a new function. Only fun.
There are a few YouTube movies where you can learn the basics in a very easy and quick way. They helped me a lot in the beginning. Maybe they help others here too




Etc.... 10 parts in total
 
Steefe, when I think about the prospect of designing a ship on the computer, the thing that is hardest for me to grasp, from a drafting standpoint, is determining the difference in draft between the bow and stern; the stern sits deeper in the water, understandably, because of the extra weight of the after castle. That is easier said than done, though, from a drafting standpoint. One thing that I notice, though, is that your drawing shows a keel that rises from aft to fore, but not in a straight line; from the mid-ship frame, forward, the keel tapers upward. Is this a particularly Dutch construction feature? I had always thought that the draft was a uniform taper. What I find hard to understand, generally, is that the frames are not perpendicular to the keel, but at an acute angle from aft to forward. What you are showing suggests that the frames are square to the keel, from aft to mid-ships, and then at an acute angle going forward from there. Am I understanding this properly?
 
Steefe, when I think about the prospect of designing a ship on the computer, the thing that is hardest for me to grasp, from a drafting standpoint, is determining the difference in draft between the bow and stern; the stern sits deeper in the water, understandably, because of the extra weight of the after castle. That is easier said than done, though, from a drafting standpoint. One thing that I notice, though, is that your drawing shows a keel that rises from aft to fore, but not in a straight line; from the mid-ship frame, forward, the keel tapers upward. Is this a particularly Dutch construction feature? I had always thought that the draft was a uniform taper. What I find hard to understand, generally, is that the frames are not perpendicular to the keel, but at an acute angle from aft to forward. What you are showing suggests that the frames are square to the keel, from aft to mid-ships, and then at an acute angle going forward from there. Am I understanding this properly?
Yes, this is, if I understood it correctly, typically Dutch. The keel will be deeper in the water, which improves the steering load. The frames are perpendicular to the waterline and not to the keel. During construction, the keel was also laid on beams to match the waterline. So they raise the keel at the bow. On the old paintings and drawings of the Dutch ships you can see this typical position in the water. You can find a lot about how and why in Ab Hoving's book Nicolaes Witsen and Shipbuilding in the Dutch Golden Age.
A must read when you want to go Dutch. :)
You can also visit this site, where you can learn a lot about these ships and how to build them.
By the way, the Hohenzollern model is not design for the shallow waters aroud the Dutch coast line. When you look to the difference with the other ships we know. Like the 7P or a pinas in the book. The HZ have a difference in the first lagers of planks along the keel. Not flat but hollow. You can see this also in the stations plan I posted before.
 
I'm still drawing these frames shapes. There are a lot to do. I wanted to already work on the keel. But for that job I need a oscillating spindle sander. So I finished my project here
So I hope soon to show you some woodwork on the Hohenzollern model.
 
@All thanks for the likes, kind words and interest in this build of the HZ model in POF.
For me the first complete scratch build. A brave decision for me to start and I hope I'll bring it to an end. I'll need a lot of help. So be free to ask and tell me when you notice something.

The woodworking had begun.
First thing I had to make was a base where the keel could rest on. In the program of Ab these ar call "stapelblokken" (pile blocks) in the first section of the building phase. You can see that the keel is not straight, like mentioned before, but in the middle is lower then to the stern and the bow. This was not only done for the steering load, but also in shallow waters the rudder would not hit the sand and make it impossible to steering the ship. The pile blocks even the keel to ground (water) level during the build. I chose not to use piled blocks but a wooden beam copying the shape of the sagging keel. I used for this pine wood.

IMG_3092.JPGIMG_3093.JPGIMG_3094.JPGIMG_3095.JPGIMG_3096.JPGIMG_3097.JPG

I cut the markings in with a thin jap saw

IMG_3098.JPG

Then I started to make the keel of a piece of cherry. The end result
A lot of pictures, because I know we all love that.
The end result must have a threadment with Clou and other finishes. So the look will change a little bit. Not easy a keel of a Dutch ship. Lots of curves in it.

IMG_3099.JPGIMG_3100.JPGIMG_3101.JPGIMG_3102.JPG

This little lip on the end of the keel (picture below) is to protect the rudder. So no debris, rope or stones can come between the rudder and keel and give problems.

IMG_3103.JPG

The upstanding part on the keel on the bow side is called the "kinnebak", don't ask me the English name but this is the connection between keel beam and bow beam.

IMG_3104.JPGIMG_3105.JPGIMG_3106.JPGIMG_3107.JPGIMG_3108.JPG

The keel in the drawings of Winter is a little wider then in the documentation of Yk and Witse. On my scale this was 2 mm. This wil give the ship a differend look then most of us are used too. I'll keep this bigger keel because I'm build too the look of the model. Hope to give the next time a lot of pictures of the stem and stern.
Thanks for visiting.
 
Nice to see some sawdust in the workshop after all the time sitting in front of a computer screen. How inconvenient of the Dutch to make a keel that varies in width along its length...
Yes it was time to make some. Maybe I'm starting to soon. The plans are still in progress. But I think start to make the keel could be no problem. And all these varies in the shapes of the keel seems to be all for improving the steering of these Dutch ships.
Nice work Stephan.
Thanks Maarten.
 
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