LA SALAMANDRE, bomb ketch - POF - (CAF-models, 1/48)

ADC

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Hi Uwek, looks like you will be overtaking me on the build. I have been away from home for a few days and missing my build. Interesting question about the 79 or 80 degree angle. I will have to have a good look at it when the assemble frame 45. What piece are you waiting for from Max?
 

Uwek

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Hi Uwek, looks like you will be overtaking me on the build. I have been away from home for a few days and missing my build. Interesting question about the 79 or 80 degree angle. I will have to have a good look at it when the assemble frame 45. What piece are you waiting for from Max?
Hallo again,
It would be good to get your opinion about the correct angle......as I mentioned before I will finally check, when I am assembling the whole stern structure.
it is mainly the upper plywood part of the building board / jig, which was not straigth. Some „waves“ in the original board, and therefore the cut of the laser did not went through the playbook, so I lost some „teeth“ also. And I think a good fitting jig is important to get a fitting hull. But Max is helping a lot to get a good spare......good Service.
 
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Interesting construction and great job so far. I can't wait to see the framework erected onto the keel. Keep up the good work Uwe. You'll have a model to be proud of.

Bob
 
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HI Bob. I have a number of Ancre books all of the books contain a full set of plans usually drawn to 1/48 scale. Every frame is drawn out full
size so you can build scratch if you wanted to.

Janet B
 
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HI Bob. I have a number of Ancre books all of the books contain a full set of plans usually drawn to 1/48 scale. Every frame is drawn out full
size so you can build scratch if you wanted to.

Janet B
That's great news. Thanks Janet, I think I'll order the set today.

Bob
 

ADC

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Hallo again,
It would be good to get your opinion about the correct angle......as I mentioned before I will finally check, when I am assembling the whole stern structure.
it is mainly the upper plywood part of the building board / jig, which was not straigth. Some „waves“ in the original board, and therefore the cut of the laser did not went through the playbook, so I lost some „teeth“ also. And I think a good fitting jig is important to get a fitting hull. But Max is helping a lot to get a good spare......good Service.
In this Russian build log there is a suggestion that the angle from rib 45 away from 44 should be about 11.5 degrees or 11.25 to be precise. So the rear angle of rib 45 should be close to 79 degrees according to the builders.
https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=8540&start=75
 

Uwek

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In this Russian build log there is a suggestion that the angle from rib 45 away from 44 should be about 11.5 degrees or 11.25 to be precise. So the rear angle of rib 45 should be close to 79 degrees according to the builders.
https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=8540&start=75
This would would confirm my measurement out of the drawings, ok, I measured 11 degrees, very close. But seems not the 10 degrees.
Many thanks for this info ! If I could give three „likes“......I would like to do it
 
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Uwek

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HI Bob. I have a number of Ancre books all of the books contain a full set of plans usually drawn to 1/48 scale. Every frame is drawn out full
size so you can build scratch if you wanted to.

Janet B
Thanks for your confirmation of the quality......if you take a look at post 41 of this topic, there are some excerpts of the ancre drawings shown.
Just received a copy of the drawing set of the 74 gun ship drawn by Jean Boudriot. So detailed, great.
I can realy highly recommend these drawing sets.
 
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Looking good Uwe and the difference between yours and the one I am drawing is yours is a Ketch which was usually a converted 2 masted merchant vessel and mine is a Bomb Vessel which is a purpose built 3 masted Bomber. so basically the difference between a ketch and vessel when looking at bombers is ketches are converted and 2 masts and vessels were purpose built and 3 masts
 
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I got the book and plans in english for the Le Fleuron very detailed nice plans but the book comes with it was more of a build log than a detailed thing but supposedly there is another book for it with more details
 

ADC

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Looking good Uwe and the difference between yours and the one I am drawing is yours is a Ketch which was usually a converted 2 masted merchant vessel and mine is a Bomb Vessel which is a purpose built 3 masted Bomber. so basically the difference between a ketch and vessel when looking at bombers is ketches are converted and 2 masts and vessels were purpose built and 3 masts
According to the ANCRE monograph La Salamandre was a purpose build bomb vessel. Converted ships were from a later period when it was judged a waste to build single purpose ships that were infrequently needed. It was ketch rigged because the mortars were fired over the bow. With a foremast it was not possible. The heavy and beamy build with very close set ribs are not features of typical 18th century merchant vessels. The monograph gives quite a detailed history of French bomb ships and does state that some later larger ships were three masted and called artillery barges as well as mortar sloops and frigates.
 
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Uwek

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Looking good Uwe and the difference between yours and the one I am drawing is yours is a Ketch which was usually a converted 2 masted merchant vessel and mine is a Bomb Vessel which is a purpose built 3 masted Bomber. so basically the difference between a ketch and vessel when looking at bombers is ketches are converted and 2 masts and vessels were purpose built and 3 masts
In addition to the information we got already from ADC (which I can completely confirm) the following:
The La Salamandre from 1752 was one of the latest special built mortar ketches, which are called "bomb vessel of the french type".
Chevalier Renaud had in 1680 the idea of employing mortars at sea, on board of vessels specially built for the purpose, allowing an effective bombardment of the port cities. Ans in 1681 already 5 vessels of this type were laid down under the name of "galiotes a bombes". The idea was essentially to place two mortars side by side, firing forwards, this in turn implied doing away with the foremast. The mortars are installed in fixed position, the beds cannot be movedand it is the vessel itself which must be positioned in the correct alihnment for the direction of fire. In th ebeginning the vessels were very busy, f.e during the bombardement of Algirs in 1688 the french used 10 bomb ketches sending more tha 20.000 bombs against the port.

IMG_1726.JPG

During the period from 1681 to 1755 the french built together 21 vessels of the french type bomb vessel.

IMG_1725.JPG

The last one in action were the Etna and the Salamandre

IMG_1724.JPG

all pages shwon on the photos are from the ancre booklet attached to the planset of the La Salamandre
 

Uwek

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I got the book and plans in english for the Le Fleuron very detailed nice plans but the book comes with it was more of a build log than a detailed thing but supposedly there is another book for it with more details
Hallo Joseph,
I took my copy of the Le Fleuron and want to give other friends here a short info about the content of this monographie of this 64 gun ship built in 1694 by Blaise Ollivier. IN the book you can find in 135 pages also:
Annotated Study of the plates , Measurements and scantlings of timber pieces, Description of the rigging and a Complete retranscription of B. Ollivier's manuscript
But off course most important are the beautiful 28 drawings made by Jean Boudriot and Gerard Delacroix.

The focus in the monographies from ancre are every time the drawings. And all of them are based on the information and details of the four copies of Boudriots book set about the 74 gun ship.....

IMG_1727.JPG

monographie-du-fleuron-vaisseau-de-64-canons-1729.jpg
 
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maybe the salamander being french was purpose built but from what I found abt the british ships was the info I was reciting as the diff between a ketch and a vessel. maybe the frenchies just called them all ketches and brits had dif way either way they cool ships
 
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Good evening Uwek, beautiful machine but for what use is he? is the first time I see such a thing
 

Uwek

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I like to go for mashines.......but not only because of this

For ship modeling:
I want to use this sander f.e. for the inside and partly outside sanding of the frames, to get a rectangle smooth surface, but I guess it is also possible partly for bevelling of the frames. Means everything which has to be sanded and is curved.
In future I hope to make complete ships based on plans and no kits, so I think I can even use it more.

Additional:
I plan also to make some wooden toys, you know, ducks, elephants etc. which have all curved forms

I tried to find some video on youtube, maybe this is showing partly what I want to tell you......it is the big brother of mine -> small hint: reduce the sound, it is like "Top gun" music


Maybe in future I can add a home made video showing the Jet helping me with the Salamandre
 

Uwek

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I was several days sick with a cold, so no real activities. Today I tried first time my new sander with fairing one frame.
I was in beginning afraid, that the sander is going to fast so that I have to be very carefully with the frame.
But it goes slowly so it is possible to sand the frame down very exactly......step by step ...... it is going very good.
First photos showing only one side done. Using a grid 100

IMG_1743.JPGIMG_1745.JPG

I left a little bit meat, so I can adjust the frames when I install them on the keel and into the jig

IMG_1748.JPG

IMG_1749.JPG

I am happy with the result, getting a very smooth surface. Also now I can see, that it was good to keep the connecting joints between the futtocks of one frame as small as possible. Sanded you can see every small unperfect connections.......so today I am happy :)
 
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