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L'Orenoque Mamoli 1:100 scale

Namabiiru said:
Chuck,
Have you considered making them as eyebolts, as opposed to rings? Rings will be hard to cleanly attach to the port lids.
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JerryTodd said:
At small scales, making an eye-bolt and bending it to appear as a ring hanging is much easier. 1:100 may be at the line for this effect, it would certainly work well at 1:64, but I doubt it would look right at 1:48 or larger.
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Namabiiru! Jerry Todd! Thanks for the ideas! This is probably the route I'll take. I didn't think I would have much of a problem with attachment - matte acrylic medium works fine with these tiny almost weigtless objects - I used it to attach the hinges and door handles. Since they are supposed to be rings I'll make the mini eyebolts and bend them as Jerry suggests - this way there will be no issue with uniform attachment :D

Thanks again, shipmates!

Blessings
Chuck
 
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Martin By Eye said:
L'Aigle was definitely built for speed, the feathering wheels added some 30% in efficiency . I saw video of the PS Waverley ,that has the same feathering system, she is impressively fast even compared to screw driven ships.
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I'll just bet she was. The comparison made me doubt the accuracy of the kit's statement that it was a 1:100 scale model. So much to doubt about the kit that I don't think I would have been surprised.ROTF
 
Martin By Eye said:
Ha, I was waiting for that one ! It's got to be difficult to say as it is such a crossover period. the Sphinx seems to have absolutely standard 18C style rigging and knowing the french i would expect them to be twenty years behind , at least. i have looked at what i had already to hand but i have as many question marks as you for the moment !
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Martin! What you say about the rigging makes me say "Yikes!" It also makes me a little bit uncomfortable about whether to use deadeyes or try my hand at giving the impression of a rigging screw at 1:100 scale. On that point, should the topmast shouds use rigging screws if the main shoruds are set up with rigging screws? I am also at somewhat of a stand with the head rigging. For example, chain bobstays?

As you know, I am working towards as much historical accuracy as I can manage given the terribly thin source materials. Really, it is a miracle that I found the cache of plans at the start of the build. With that in mind, there was a draught of the USS Missouri in the French archive where I found L'Orenoque's plans. Here's a view of the Missouri or her twin sister Mississippi. These USN steam frigates predate L'Orenoque by about 5 years. I'll take a look into my resources on these ships and see if I cant find some help there. Seems to me that there's a family resemblence to their younger French cousin. Jerry @JerryTodd , thoughts?

USS Mississippi or Missouri.jpg

I'm just trying to get a jump on the planning for the masting and rigging so I can order hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of blocks etc from our friends at @Dry-Dock Models & Parts in time to get them by the start of my Christmas break.:p

Blessings.
Chuck
 
All I have on the Mississippi is a spar deck layout with Constellation's laid over it.
mississippi_constellation_spar_decks.png

pg608.jpg As for rigging screws I found an image in a manual recently.

But I 3D modeled one based on photos of Constellation in the 1890s, and printed them for my model
ringging_screw.png rigging_screws05.png con20250805c.jpg

I see glimpses of these things in many CW era photos, usually peeking over hammocks in some group photo on deck of ships such as Hartford. Sometimes you can make them out in photos of ships, but I've yet to find a good clear photo.

Anyway, I don't know how well they'd scale down to 1:100, I may have to fatten them up some for it to work. If you're going this route, I'll take a shot at it.
 
JerryTodd said:
All I have on the Mississippi is a spar deck layout with Constellation's laid over it.
View attachment 556645

View attachment 556642 As for rigging screws I found an image in a manual recently.

But I 3D modeled one based on photos of Constellation in the 1890s, and printed them for my model
View attachment 556643 View attachment 556644 View attachment 556646

I see glimpses of these things in many CW era photos, usually peeking over hammocks in some group photo on deck of ships such as Hartford. Sometimes you can make them out in photos of ships, but I've yet to find a good clear photo.

Anyway, I don't know how well they'd scale down to 1:100, I may have to fatten them up some for it to work. If you're going this route, I'll take a shot at it.
Click to expand...
Jerry! You always come through!!! I really appreciate the offer! Would the top mast shrouds also have rigging screws?

Blessings.
Chuck
 
I have been back over the photo's we already dug out, and here's my observations ;
the pitching deck picture shows almost exclusively hemp ropes apart from chain stays to the funnel and possibly a chain halyard top right for a topsail or topgallant.(to be taken with a pinch of salt)
the gomez photo looks like possibly having sheaves fitted in the yards , which almost seem to have the shape of steel yards ? Does not appear to carry jackstays

ne_sai10.jpgthis one shows either rigging screws or disconnected deadeyes depending whether you have your glasses on ! and i just found this, which is the british mail boat MS ORINOCO !!caused me some confusion!! built five years before the French version which seems to have jackstays fitted , judging by the sail furling ! (note twin funnels)564540663_26066968402903499_320673434484374902_n.jpg
so that should keep you up at night if you want accuracy ROTF !
also , steel wire was invented around 1815 and used fairly commonly by this era .
Chain bobstays ? why not ROTF !
I really was waiting to see what you would do for rigging , you see....
there must surely be more expert than me...
 
The Gavel said:
Martin! What you say about the rigging makes me say "Yikes!" It also makes me a little bit uncomfortable about whether to use deadeyes or try my hand at giving the impression of a rigging screw at 1:100 scale. On that point, should the topmast shouds use rigging screws if the main shoruds are set up with rigging screws? I am also at somewhat of a stand with the head rigging. For example, chain bobstays?

As you know, I am working towards as much historical accuracy as I can manage given the terribly thin source materials. Really, it is a miracle that I found the cache of plans at the start of the build. With that in mind, there was a draught of the USS Missouri in the French archive where I found L'Orenoque's plans. Here's a view of the Missouri or her twin sister Mississippi. These USN steam frigates predate L'Orenoque by about 5 years. I'll take a look into my resources on these ships and see if I cant find some help there. Seems to me that there's a family resemblence to their younger French cousin. Jerry @JerryTodd , thoughts?

View attachment 556634

I'm just trying to get a jump on the planning for the masting and rigging so I can order hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of blocks etc from our friends at @Dry-Dock Models & Parts in time to get them by the start of my Christmas break.:p

Blessings.
Chuck
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This looks more like deadeyes to me. rigging screws would hardly be visible.
 
What ho, shipmates!

I'm still pondering the rigging question. Last night I found this image of the French stern screw frigate Clorinde circa 1843. It occurred to me to try to find pictures of ANY French Navy ships from that period to try to puzzel out the answers. Also, since (GASP!) no one chimed in on whether upper mast shrouds should be set up with rigging screws if the main shrouds use them (GASP! GASP!) I guess no one knows the answer ROTF

I also looked back trough McArdel's plan set for USS Susquehanna. She is rigged with deadeyes.

Here's Clorinde. I think I see deadeyes. What do you see?

Clorinde 1843.jpg
 
The Gavel said:
What ho, shipmates!

I'm still pondering the rigging question. Last night I found this image of the French stern screw frigate Clorinde circa 1843. It occurred to me to try to find pictures of ANY French Navy ships from that period to try to puzzel out the answers. Also, since (GASP!) no one chimed in on whether upper mast shrouds should be set up with rigging screws if the main shrouds use them (GASP! GASP!) I guess no one knows the answer ROTF

I also looked back trough McArdel's plan set for USS Susquehanna. She is rigged with deadeyes.

Here's Clorinde. I think I see deadeyes. What do you see?

View attachment 556834
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The image is not complete sharp. So if I focus in it becomes blur.
But from this view it look likes deadeyes.
 
Papatotalos said:
The image is not complete sharp. So if I focus in it becomes blur.
But from this view it look likes deadeyes.
Click to expand...
Clemens! Thank you for your vote! Yes, it is very hard to work with these old pictures for exactly that reason. The photographers were obviously not thinking about us when they failed to take close-up pictures of every part of the ship. Especially the rigging! ROTF

Blessings.
Chuck
 
Period painters, even those that had been Naval officers, suck at depicting details such as rigging screws, even deadeyes & lanyards. The Impressionists were taking over the art scene, and their influence was ruining art for us folks looking for the details.
chains1862.png chains1856c.png chains1856b.png chains1888.png

In the tops...
top1856.png

Sometimes you just have to look for them from a different angle...
DavidFarragut_Hartford.jpg

I can't speak to French ship-fitting policy, but rigging-screws were fairly common on US sloops and frigates in the decade leading up to the Civil War. The Patent Truss, which was a standard fitting on clipper ships, had found it's way onto warships as well. Though you can't see them directly, they seem pretty apparent in the image of the Mississippi under-weigh posted above.

(Chuck, I am using the same screws for the topmast shrouds as for the lowers.)
trusses.jpg truss.jpg trusses_parrels_topsail_yard.jpg
 
JerryTodd said:
Period painters, even those that had been Naval officers, suck at depicting details such as rigging screws, even deadeyes & lanyards. The Impressionists were taking over the art scene, and their influence was ruining art for us folks looking for the details.
View attachment 556844 View attachment 556845 View attachment 556847 View attachment 556846

In the tops...
View attachment 556850

Sometimes you just have to look for them from a different angle...
View attachment 556849

I can't speak to French ship-fitting policy, but rigging-screws were fairly common on US sloops and frigates in the decade leading up to the Civil War. The Patent Truss, which was a standard fitting on clipper ships, had found it's way onto warships as well. Though you can't see them directly, they seem pretty apparent in the image of the Mississippi under-weigh posted above.

(Chuck, I am using the same screws for the topmast shrouds as for the lowers.)
View attachment 556859 View attachment 556857 View attachment 556858
Click to expand...
Jerry Todd!!! My man!!! Thanks for coming through yet again! Well, I'm going to give things a minute to percolate. I get why USN ships moved in relative synchrony with the modern times - France was a different story, I think, because of the amount of political upheaval from Napoleons escape from Elba to the Third Empire I can well imgine that the social, financial and political instability caused delays in adopting the newest and best technology throughout a given ship. Take La Gloire, the model. That was the ship of the moment that changed warships forever. If the model is accurate (as well as my eyes) she still had deadeyes.

For what it's worth.

Blessings.
Chuck
 
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