Rattlesnake 1/48 - Harold M Hahn

donfarr

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
2,203
Points
478

JUST AN ASIDE, WHEN MY DAUGHTER REMODELED THE BARN FOR ME AS A LIVING APARTMENT SHE WENT AND ADDED A HOBBY ROOM/WORK ROOM. THOUGHT I HAD A LOT OF ROOM, THAT WAS 10and a half YEARS AGO, now it is so cramped I only have room to move my chair just a few feet all around till i hit something, MY DAUGHTER SAID EVEN IF SHE WOULD GIVE ME THE GARAGE COMPLETLY WITCH IS BEYONFD THE THOUGHT I WOULD RUN OUT OF SPACE SOON, SO THANKFUL FOR WHAT I HAVE and I may be USING MY BEDROOM FOR ADDITIONAL SPACE FOR A WHILE AS THE BUILDING SLIP IS QUITE LONG AN HEAVY FIRST WILL TRY IT OIN MY ROOM IF I HAVE TO MOVE IT AROUND I WILL SWITCH TO THE BEDROOM. Don
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Don, it sounds like you have filled your hobby room with many exciting things, tools and models, you may want to view a picture.
I also have a work desk in my basement, but very limited in space, can't make anything special with dust there.
Regards-
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Keel and Baug 6mm.
Here I wonder why it is different on the height front and back of the keel, but I suppose it should be so.
The materials are adjusted to 6mm which I have been told it should be, and then I glued on the pattern and cut out the parts so they are ready to fine tune.
Fortunately, I did nothing more than i find out that it was the wrong thickness.
OOPs.
Ratt Kjøl (1).jpgRatt Kjøl (2).jpgRatt Kjøl (5).jpgRatt Kjøl (6).jpg
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Explanation from my point of view.
The plans where I discovered that the parts I made earlier had the wrong thickness.
2 stem (1).jpg2 stem (2).jpg
I measure the thickness of the bow, the notches on the front full frame 2, and the notches rear full frame 35, here the dimensions are the same 4.50mm.
2 stem (3).jpg3 frames (1).jpg3 frames (2).jpg3 frames (3).jpg3 frames (4).jpg
The thickness of the bow via frames 2 to 35 is the same, and it seems that it is the correct thickness I think.
What I'm wondering is whether the keel should have the same thickness from frame 35 and all the way to the back of the rudder.
4 stern (1).jpg4 stern (2).jpg4 stern (3).jpg
In the last pictures you can see the targets of the stern,is there some who can tell how this kan be solved.

Hope there is a good explanation for this, please.
-
 

Olivers Historic Shipyard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
329
Points
313

Location
Munich
I ´ve learned with the planset from my La Belle that it is nescesary to measure the whole plan before you start any engine from a tool. As well to compare the waterlineplan and the frames, the sections... all important details to start a clean and correct framework. The qualitiy from the print can change the measure of the parts, as well the geometry. A line becomes a bow ect..... If you do a copy on different copy machines you can get a different result. Scan and print on the PC is very dangerous. There can be a lot of things.
 

Maarten

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
1,386
Points
483

Location
The Netherlands
You would expect the keel to be thinner at the bow and stern compared to the middle. I think you can't determine the thickness of the keel by measuring the notch in the frame. Is there no topview plan with an overview of the keel on it or a full section view at bow middle an stern.
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Thank you for your attention.
First, the plans and patterns I show in the pictures are the first scans of the original drawings I did at a print shop.
I have taken care of the originals as they are.

The first scan I have divided into sizes that fit in a regular copier, a4.
Since this is the first copy of the original, I will only use these patterns only when making pattern number 2.
I bought a laser printer, HP, which I intend to use for all pattern, then no pattern will be different.
Anyway, pattern only comes from a printer.
1- Original, 2- scan from printing, 3- pattern from HP laser printer, hope you understand.

Maarten, it is possible I have overlooked something in the plans, (overview of the keel), I have to study carefully again.
Thanks again-
 

Jimsky

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3,056
Points
578

Location
Brooklyn, New York USA
I agree with Maarten. It should be thinner at the stern. Please take a look at the following picture. The rudder has too (2) distinct thicknesses: at the head (wider) and the keel (thinner). I am not sure if it is a common practice for all periods of ships.

IMG_1006.jpeg
 

Olivers Historic Shipyard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
329
Points
313

Location
Munich
Its good to scan a ruler with the drawing. You can everytime check the result if you print on a another maschine and as well to doublecheck your own printer.
I put a little ruler on each of my own drawings. As well to check the ratio height/width. If you print one on your own printer and everything is fine, you dont must check every drawing. But i used three different printers in different sizes.

1576042992313.png
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Thanks Jim and Oliver for good advice.
Jim, according to my measurements and drawings it is exactly as you show, but what I mean is,
In the drawings, the keel from bow to rear whole frame is the same thickness, but from rear whole frame 38,
and at the back of the keel I don't quite know how to do it.
What I think is that the keel gets narrower from frame 38 to the back, otherwise I think the keel will be just as thick going forward but the bow will also be narrowed in a bit.
I've cut and pasted a little to understand how the parts should be put together.
cut paste (1).jpgcut paste (2).jpg
Oliver I try your ruler trick and do a control measurement.
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Here are a series of pictures of measurements made to find out how the keel and bow stern should be.
In the last pictures I have rounded off the goals and written them on an outline I have made.
1-( bow) (1).jpg2- 0  (0).jpg3- 2.jpg4-sektion (7-28) (1).jpg4-sektion (7-28) (2).jpg4-sektion (7-28) (3).jpg5-ramme 35 (2).jpg6- stern (1).jpg8-kiel dimensjons (2).jpg9-kiel dimensjons (1).jpg
More to kom-
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

And here's how I think it should be.
From frame 28-6mm and all the way to stern, the keel will be narrower to 5mm, stern post will be 5mm from keel to top.
From frame 7-6mm to bow it gets narrower to 4mm.
1-stern-kiel (1).jpg1-stern-kiel (2).jpg1-stern-kiel (3).jpg2-kiel dimensjons (1).jpg2-kiel dimensjons (2).jpg
Cut and pasted again to find out how deadwood should be.
5mm, but it must be cut out / adjusted where the boards meet sternpost and rabbet.
Yellow color where it should be cut out / adapted for planks (first image).
3- (1).jpg3- (2).jpg
Finally the goals of what I think the rudder should be, hope you understand my explanation through the pictures and the goals I show.
4-rudder (1).jpg4-rudder (2).jpg
If this sounds sensible, feel free to give tips and good advice, it is highly appreciated.
The parts I have already made I can use as they are 6mm thick, I thought they were wrong.
I think it is a question of making the keel narrower front and rear.

I will not start producing parts until I feel I have the right goals.
This is the first model I will build in this way (Hahn).
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Janos, do you mean that the goals I show in the pictures look right? If this looks okay then I start by making keel, bow and stern.
Yes, I have done a lot of research to get the right goals, I think this should be right before I start construction.

Since I am reasonably fresh in this area, (Hahn, drawings and building method), I really appreciate the help I can get from you other specialists here at SOS.
Greetings Knut-
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

TIME TO TRY NEW TOOL, TRITON SPINDLE SANDER.
Picture series of parts for bow, step by step, machine by machine, the parts should be fine-tuned by hand after this.
baug (1).jpgbaug (2).jpgbaug (3).jpgbaug (4).jpgbaug (5).jpg
Greetings Knut-
 

Norway

Blandford
Blandford Group Build
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
1,533
Points
478

Neptune, yes it is the way I think it should be, narrowed down by keel and thicker to the top of the stern, something else I'm wondering is,
my measurements show that the keel on my model is, 5mm front, 6mm center and 5mm thick rear, does this sound right?
Thank you for taking the time to think about the matter, which is why I posted these pictures of measurements from my drawings.
The problem is that my drawings do not show the keel seen from above.
I have received many likes and nice comments, but no one has said anything about what I show looks right.
Well, I have to figure this out myself.
Thank you Knut-
 

neptune

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
1,656
Points
528

Location
Australia.
G'day Knut, here are another couple of pics,


066.JPG
This is the stern post of my HMS Investigator,


028.jpg
This is the bow of the Investigator, It doesn't look like it, but Y is thinner than X, and also Z is thinner than X, also as you say going back along the
keel from Y the keel does get wider towards the midships and then thins down towards the stern post,


84.jpg
and this is a view along the keel from bow to stern, on the Royal William, hope these pics help,

best regards John,
 
Last edited:

Maarten

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
1,386
Points
483

Location
The Netherlands
G'day Knut, here are another couple of pics,


View attachment 127664
This is the stern post of my HMS Investigator,


View attachment 127665
It doesn't look like it, but Y is thinner than X, and also Z is thinner than X, also as you say going back along the
keel from Y the keel does get wider towards the midships and then thins down towards the stern post,


View attachment 127667
and a view along the keel from bow to stern, hope these pics this help,

best regards John,
John, is this an older build from you, didnt see this one before.
 
Top