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Do you see a difference between rotary cut and plane cut veneer? I think that rotary cut may curl/cup.
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School for Shipmodel Building School for model ship building
- Thread starter Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)
- Start date
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personally, i never used veneer i know model builders who have but i do not have any first hand experience. To explore the possible use of veneers i would suggest researching the art of marquetry.
- Joined
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The Holidays, the death of my computer workstation (the dreaded blue screen of death) and work on another art project has delayed work on the Sir Edward Hawke.
No worries everything should be back on schedule in a week or two.
No worries everything should be back on schedule in a week or two.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
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- 6,390
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- 728
i am still scrambling to reorganize from a string of unfortunate events. The guy who did my laser cutting quit his job, the person who did the casting for cannons fell off the face of the earth, the thickness sander needed repairs. Family issues "goodness gracious great balls of fire" if it is not thing it is another but i will be back.
Take breather, as you know ships usually right themselves after a storm.
Cheers!
Cheers!
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
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- 728
a heads up i am back in the shop and working on the Sir Edward Hawke classes will resume this coming Saturday
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 6,390
- Points
- 728
the last class was December 13 2025 and now classes are back in secession after almost a 2-month sabbatical from model ship building. So! where was I? oh yes planking the inside of the bulwarks. That is finished and it is time to turn attention to the stern upper section.
Looking at the picture starting with the wales. it does not matter if you're building from a kit or scratch setting the wales is the first thing you should do. It is the foundation the upper works sits on. As for the lower hull planking the best way is to first shape the gardboard planks and bottom planks then plank up to the wales. The last planks to go in are the ones under the wales called shutter planks. This model will not be planked below the wales except for maybe the garboards.
The planking right above the wales where the gun ports are runs parallel to the wales. At the bow a wider plank is used. Todays class is about the darker run of planks at the stern right above the molding.
The first issue to deal with is the difference in width of the section above the wales and the next section above the molding. I say an "issue" because one problem with many kits (not all) of them but it is common for kits to supply just one maybe two widths of planking. This could be why it is so difficult to get a proper job of planking.
I did mill the planking all the same width for the section above the wales but the planking is too wide for the next section. i cannot just use it because the molding above the section has to hit exactly at the correct height. In the final planking of the stern section and the height of the deck all have to come together at an exact measurement.
a well planked hull shows a sweet sweeping run of planks and moldings
so let's go in the shop and do some modeling
Looking at the picture starting with the wales. it does not matter if you're building from a kit or scratch setting the wales is the first thing you should do. It is the foundation the upper works sits on. As for the lower hull planking the best way is to first shape the gardboard planks and bottom planks then plank up to the wales. The last planks to go in are the ones under the wales called shutter planks. This model will not be planked below the wales except for maybe the garboards.
The planking right above the wales where the gun ports are runs parallel to the wales. At the bow a wider plank is used. Todays class is about the darker run of planks at the stern right above the molding.
The first issue to deal with is the difference in width of the section above the wales and the next section above the molding. I say an "issue" because one problem with many kits (not all) of them but it is common for kits to supply just one maybe two widths of planking. This could be why it is so difficult to get a proper job of planking.
I did mill the planking all the same width for the section above the wales but the planking is too wide for the next section. i cannot just use it because the molding above the section has to hit exactly at the correct height. In the final planking of the stern section and the height of the deck all have to come together at an exact measurement.
a well planked hull shows a sweet sweeping run of planks and moldings
so let's go in the shop and do some modeling
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
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- 728
ok! in the shop the first thing to deal with is to measure the area and divide that into the number of planks needed to fill it in.
You don't have to be exact close is good enough. There is a little play between the height of the deck to the cap rail and the outer planking. On some hulls the planking sweeps upward as it approaches the stern so planks might have to be tapered. In this case the section to be planked is running parallel to the section below it.
I could have just milled the planking to the measurement on the drawing to begin with but past experience i found the model 99% of the time will drift from the plans give or take from the "hand of man" so it is best to fit planking or whatever your working on to the model rather than trying to stay absolutely true to the plans. So the planking used for the bulwarks have to be reduced in width.
I do make sanding sticks of different grits. It is a simple hand made tool by just gluing sandpaper to a stick. The trick is not to use sheets of sandpaper but rather use sanding belts they are much thicker and hold up much longer than thin sandpaper.
To start i am using masking tape sticky side up taped at the ends to a flat surface, in this case a piece of glass.
I take the planks to be reduced in width and stand them on edge on the sticky masking tape. Then sand away until you reach the correct width. simple
You don't have to be exact close is good enough. There is a little play between the height of the deck to the cap rail and the outer planking. On some hulls the planking sweeps upward as it approaches the stern so planks might have to be tapered. In this case the section to be planked is running parallel to the section below it.
I could have just milled the planking to the measurement on the drawing to begin with but past experience i found the model 99% of the time will drift from the plans give or take from the "hand of man" so it is best to fit planking or whatever your working on to the model rather than trying to stay absolutely true to the plans. So the planking used for the bulwarks have to be reduced in width.
I do make sanding sticks of different grits. It is a simple hand made tool by just gluing sandpaper to a stick. The trick is not to use sheets of sandpaper but rather use sanding belts they are much thicker and hold up much longer than thin sandpaper.
To start i am using masking tape sticky side up taped at the ends to a flat surface, in this case a piece of glass.
I take the planks to be reduced in width and stand them on edge on the sticky masking tape. Then sand away until you reach the correct width. simple
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 6,390
- Points
- 728
Before gluing the planking to the hull like i did with the bulwarks be sure to sand the timbering to the correct width. On the left side is the correct width of .100 the right side need to be reduced. When you are sanding and shaping the hull you can do this at that time. I just left the top timbers full width until it was time to plank the upper works. either way is fine
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The final results. Next comes the cap rail at the bow and the last section at the stern.
See you all in class next Saturday
it is -12 below zero here on the southern shores of lake Erie and my shop is in an unheated barn. Even though i do have military grade arctic wear. the machines groan in the cold. Must be the grease in the bearings got to stiff. So i will be working on the Sir Edwars Hawke this week.
See you all in class next Saturday
it is -12 below zero here on the southern shores of lake Erie and my shop is in an unheated barn. Even though i do have military grade arctic wear. the machines groan in the cold. Must be the grease in the bearings got to stiff. So i will be working on the Sir Edwars Hawke this week.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
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At this point i am stopping at the planking on the side and turn attention to the stern. Let's take a look at Hahns model of the Sir Edward Hawke
zooming in the blue section along the side lines up across the stern. so, everything done on the stern has to match up with the side.
Building the model at some point will drift from the drawings so you end up building to the model rather than trying to follow the drawings. Let's call it "as built"
The stern of the Hawke is a noted-on Chapelle's plans are reconstructed so we do not know what the stern actually looked like. To start the build like using the wales as the starting point for the upper works the first pieces to set in place on the stern is the lower molding. This molding could have has an arch to it or not we don't know. So went with no arch.
Like i said building the model may or may not end up like the drawing. Slightly off with the size of the material or maybe a slight + or - in construction ends up with the model being slightly different than to drawings. Printing out the stern from the drawing and placing it on the model the black area shows a difference in the drawing to the model.
At this point it is now building to the model, besides anyone looking at the model has no idea the exact shape and size of the stern, they are not comparing the model to the drawings. The actual difference is quite small so let's carry on with the build
zooming in the blue section along the side lines up across the stern. so, everything done on the stern has to match up with the side.
Building the model at some point will drift from the drawings so you end up building to the model rather than trying to follow the drawings. Let's call it "as built"
The stern of the Hawke is a noted-on Chapelle's plans are reconstructed so we do not know what the stern actually looked like. To start the build like using the wales as the starting point for the upper works the first pieces to set in place on the stern is the lower molding. This molding could have has an arch to it or not we don't know. So went with no arch.
Like i said building the model may or may not end up like the drawing. Slightly off with the size of the material or maybe a slight + or - in construction ends up with the model being slightly different than to drawings. Printing out the stern from the drawing and placing it on the model the black area shows a difference in the drawing to the model.
At this point it is now building to the model, besides anyone looking at the model has no idea the exact shape and size of the stern, they are not comparing the model to the drawings. The actual difference is quite small so let's carry on with the build
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
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- 728
In the shop the first thing to do is make a cardboard pattern for the section above the lower molding. Regardless of what the drawing shows on the model this section goes from the top of the molding to the halfway up the transom piece.
My colleagues here in the school may be muttering a hum? what's the point in accurate plans if you're going to drift away from them? Good point but plans may have been only a suggestion to the master shipwright there is almost no construction or very little on the old drawings so much may indeed be left up to the imagination of the master shipwright and the yard foreman.. It is known there are cases where general dimensions and line drawings are given to the shipyard the ship was built and after the ship was built drawings were done and marked "as built" the same may apply to model building as well.
My colleagues here in the school may be muttering a hum? what's the point in accurate plans if you're going to drift away from them? Good point but plans may have been only a suggestion to the master shipwright there is almost no construction or very little on the old drawings so much may indeed be left up to the imagination of the master shipwright and the yard foreman.. It is known there are cases where general dimensions and line drawings are given to the shipyard the ship was built and after the ship was built drawings were done and marked "as built" the same may apply to model building as well.
- Joined
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From pattern to piece is where a lot of the plus or minus creeps in so it is best to try and reproduce the actual part as close to the pattern as you can. Here is what i do.
a pencil line is fuzzy and it is drawing to the outside edge along a pattern. As you are shaping the piece the line is disappearing what you need is a clear sharp line to finish to. I use electrical tape and stick it to the wood then place the parrern on the tape and with an knife cut out the shape
now i have a clear and sharp pattern on the wood
i can cut out and sand the piece to exactly to the edge
peel off the tape and glue the piece to the stern. It will take some creative clamping because the stern has a slight arc from side to side. where clamping is difficult i will use Super Glue and just hold the piece in place by hand, I found using rubber gloves is a good idea when using your fingers as clamps i have glued my fingers to a model in the past. You can unglue your fingers using Acetone.
Next comes another molding It is possible to clamp this molding so Super Glue or Titebond wood glue will do the job.
This molding is a compound bend first it has to match the arch of the piece below and it also has the arch of the stern from side to side. The reason the lower piece is halfway up the transom piece at the top is to give the molding a solid backing,
In many cases kit manufactures don't give much consideration to the workability of wood or providing a wood that will take a compound bend and not break. As you see in the picture clamps are used to pull the molding down against the lower piece and another set of clamps to bend it to the arc of the stern. The Walnut being used is cold bent.
The final results
a pencil line is fuzzy and it is drawing to the outside edge along a pattern. As you are shaping the piece the line is disappearing what you need is a clear sharp line to finish to. I use electrical tape and stick it to the wood then place the parrern on the tape and with an knife cut out the shape
now i have a clear and sharp pattern on the wood
i can cut out and sand the piece to exactly to the edge
peel off the tape and glue the piece to the stern. It will take some creative clamping because the stern has a slight arc from side to side. where clamping is difficult i will use Super Glue and just hold the piece in place by hand, I found using rubber gloves is a good idea when using your fingers as clamps i have glued my fingers to a model in the past. You can unglue your fingers using Acetone.
Next comes another molding It is possible to clamp this molding so Super Glue or Titebond wood glue will do the job.
This molding is a compound bend first it has to match the arch of the piece below and it also has the arch of the stern from side to side. The reason the lower piece is halfway up the transom piece at the top is to give the molding a solid backing,
In many cases kit manufactures don't give much consideration to the workability of wood or providing a wood that will take a compound bend and not break. As you see in the picture clamps are used to pull the molding down against the lower piece and another set of clamps to bend it to the arc of the stern. The Walnut being used is cold bent.
The final results
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- Dec 1, 2016
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Coming up is the next section which includes two windows, i could draw the windows and just 3D print them and Wham! Bam! it is done. But i am not going to do that because for one reason many builders do not have 3D printing capabilities in their shop. Even though the Sir Edward Hawke is semi-scratch another reason is learning how to make some parts from scratch. Finally 3D printing is controversial is it still scratch building if you created the file and do the printing? or is it just machine made and not scratch built by hand?