Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]

Paul, "deadeyes evenly spaced" appears to be used on the Wasa in WasaMuseet. I'd go with that one. The museum made an educated guess, and if you choose what they did, you're in good company if it's proven wrong in the distant future. Your shrouds should have enough flexibility to stretch and allow adjustments of the lanyards to get the upper deadeyes where you want them. The shrouds should have no slack, and be just a little bit tighter than that. Every shroud pair places more force of the mast, and it adds up. You can judge by feel how tight they are. If a shroud or two is gooped up with too much glue at this point, replace it. You have the luxury of being able to make your own lines. Take advantage of it! It's more work, but if you expected to get this ship down without some painful setbacks to correct things, you're in the wrong hobby. Be glad this is the one of the very few that requires rework, because that in itself is a testament to your careful planning and skill. As much as you hate to admit it, this ship is your practice model, because it is your first. Be glad you have the opportunity to rework this, and that it's not something buried behind a bunch of other stuff. Access is no issue here... only time and patience.

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Make the spacing tool from spare deadeyes and a paperclip, secure the deadeye from rotating with CA. The two pins for each end of the tool should grip the deadeye with a friction fit so they don't slip out while rigging. If they slip out too easily, squeeze them together with a pliers until they grip the deadeye firmly enough to work. If you don't have spare deadeyes, I can send you some, just name your sizes in mm. Make one for the fore and main masts, and another of a different length for the mizzen. Then make a third and forth smaller one for the topmasts and topgallants. If making these tools is a challenge, tell me the deadeye sizes and distances between deadeyes in mm and I'll make the tools for you and send them to you. I work with metal and this would take me 5 minutes per tool.
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Tool for lower foremast deadeyes.
665 Deadeye Tool.jpg

Use the tool while setting shroud tension. Apply a small amount of CA to bottom and top of deadeye and clip until dry. The remove the tool and seize the shroud look around the deadeye with thread. You know what to do from here...
673 Glue Shroud Around Deadeye.jpg
 
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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Paul, "deadeyes evenly spaced" appears to be used on the Wasa in WasaMuseet. I'd go with that one. The museum made an educated guess, and if you choose what they did, you're in good company if it's proven wrong in the distant future. Your shrouds should have enough flexibility to stretch and allow adjustments of the lanyards to get the upper deadeyes where you want them. The shrouds should have no slack, and be just a little bit tighter than that. Every shroud pair places more force of the mast, and it adds up. You can judge by feel how tight they are. If a shroud or two is gooped up with too much glue at this point, replace it. You have the luxury of being able to make your own lines. Take advantage of it! It's more work, but if you expected to get this ship down without some painful setbacks to correct things, you're in the wrong hobby. Be glad this is the one of the very few that requires rework, because that in itself is a testament to your careful planning and skill. As much as you hate to admit it, this ship is your practice model, because it is your first. Be glad you have the opportunity to rework this, and that it's not something buried behind a bunch of other stuff. Access is no issue here... only time and patience.

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Out of curiosity, a long time ago someone told me about modern sailing yachts having the possibility to adjust the orientation of the mast to improve performance by moving the aerodynamic pressure point forward or aft, thus minimizing hydro-dynamic drag.
1) Anyone able to confirm this?
2) Would it be possible for the captains of these ships to adjust the orientation of their masts to optimize performance? If so, this could also mean that the pitch between deadeyes was not per se equidistant.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Make the spacing tool from spare deadeyes and a paperclip, secure the deadeye from rotating with CA. If you don't have spare deadeyes, I can send you some, just name your sizes in mm. Make one for the fore and main masts, and another of a different length for the mizzen. Then make a third and forth smaller one for the topmasts and topgallants. If making these tools is a challenge, tell me the deadeye sizes and distances between deadeyes in mm and I'll make the tools for you and send them to you. I work with metal and this would take me 5 minutes per tool.
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Use the tool.
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When I was doing the deadeye-rigging, I made a simple tool; a strap of wood and four pins, two-on-two, with a pitch of "x"mm to pick up the deadeyes. It wasn't a very robust solution and it was still a struggle to get it all right; deadeyes on the correct pitch and lanyards and shrouds sufficiently taught. Maybe using at least two tools, one port and one starboard, tightening both shroyds more or less simultaneously?
 
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RDN1954 said:
When I was doing the deadeye-rigging, I made a simple tool; a strap of wood and four pins, two-on-two, with a pitch of "x"mm to pick up the deadeyes. It wasn't a very robust solution and it was still a struggle to get it all right; deadeyes on the correct pitch and lanyards and shroyds sufficiently taught. Maybe using at least two tools, one port and one starboard, tightening both shroyds more or less simultaneously?
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I usually install shrouds one at a time, alternative port and starboard, keeping the tension of all shrouds about the same by feel. They should end up having equal force on the mast, such that it stays vertical.
 
RDN1954 said:
Out of curiosity, a long time ago someone told me about modern sailing yachts having the possibility to adjust the orientation of the mast to improve performance by moving the aerodynamic pressure point forward or aft, thus minimizing hydro-dynamic drag.
1) Anyone able to confirm this?
2) Would it be possible for the captains of these ships to adjust the orientation of their masts to optimize performance? If so, this could also mean that the pitch between deadeyes was not per se equidistant.
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You may be able to change the angle of the mast on a small boat, but on large ships, the angle of the masts was set by design, and adjustments of the deadeyes were probably only made to ensure and even load between the shrouds by maintaining even tension. The foundations of the masts where hard set on the keel and not adjustable, and the masts were wedges into place at each deck they pass through, allowing no movement. Also, bending the mast out of position risked breakage. Early 17th century ships typically had a rear rake of the main and mizzen masts, and vertical or forward rake on the foremast. This was determined by ship building and sailing experience, skill of the craft.
 
Modern racing yachts do indeed move their masts fore and aft and tension their rigs dynamically through the miracle of hydraulic controls, all to adjust the relationship of the boat's center of lateral resistance (CLR) to the center of effort (CE). This effects the boats helm balance with an eye toward not letting the rudder act as a brake. A famous racing skipper once said: "Every time you turn the rudder you slow the boat down." A lot of the interest in moving CE in a modern yacht has to do with the limitations of the fore and aft sails. Square rigs with multiple masts are a "different kettle of fish" so to speak.

Given the technology of Vasa's day I would think most rigging adjustments would be static, sail adjustments would be more than adequate underway.

Fair winds

Ed
 
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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
You may be able to change the angle of the mast on a small boat, but on large ships, the angle of the masts was set by design, and adjustments of the deadeyes were probably only made to ensure and even load between the shrouds by maintaining even tension. The foundations of the masts where hard set on the keel and not adjustable, and the masts were wedges into place at each deck they pass through, allowing no movement. Also, bending the mast out of position risked breakage. Early 17th century ships typically had a rear rake of the main and mizzen masts, and vertical or forward rake on the foremast. This was determined by ship building and sailing experience, skill of the craft.
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Sailor_ed said:
Modern racing yachts do indeed move their masts fore and aft and tension their rigs dynamically through the miracle of hydraulic controls, all to adjust the relationship of the boat's center of lateral resistance (CLR) to the center of effort (CE). This effects the boats helm balance with an eye toward not letting the rudder act as a brake. A famous racing skipper once said: "Every time you turn the rudder you slow the boat down." A lot of the interest in moving CE in a modern yacht has to do with the limitations of the fore and aft sails. Square rigs with multiple masts are a "different kettle of fish" so to speak.

Given the technology of Vasa's day I would think most rigging adjustments would be static, sail adjustments would be more than adequate underway.

Fair winds

Ed
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Thank you both for your extensive answers. Learned something new today.

Happy building,

Johan
 
With rigging of deadeyes Paul, I made up a jig similar to those described above, but out of brass wire so I could bend them and adjust the height. I soldered some cross pieces of brass to keep the separation even and firm and I made a couple of different sizes for main deadeyes and upper deadeyes (based on the separation distance as indicated in the plans). These worked extremely well, except that, in reality, to keep the deadeyes perfectly aligned I found almost impossible.

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I used these brass separators and I tied off the shrouds using them with approximately the same amount of tension, but ultimately, I found that some shrouds either stretched more than others or more/less tension had been applied, and when the lanyards went on, they didn't end up perferctly aligned. Below is a photo of my foremast shrouds and deadeyes. Note that as per the Billing Boats plans, the shrouds are not equi-spaced but have gaps wider for the cannon shot to pass through.

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Making way for the cannons was essential and this has been done although in a couple of locations, the pendent haul lines (between the shrouds), might interfere with a clear shot, but these uphaul lines are made with a hook so could be moved easily by the crew.

To be frank Paul, I don't think getting the deadeyes to align perfectly is a major issue. Below is a photo of the Lady Nelson (in Bendigo, Australia) and you can note that her shroud lengths are very uneven. This I think would be the norm rather than the exception on 'real' ships rigging.


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More decisions and learning experiences Paul,

Regards,

PeterG
 
PeterG said:
but ultimately, I found that some shrouds either stretched more than others or more/less tension had been applied, and when the lanyards went on, they didn't end up perferctly aligned.
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The reason is that you didn"t fix the lenght of the lanniards during rigging. Aftere ⅔ of rigg the lanniard you need to adjust the lenght. I use the method Andrey Kudin discribes in his log and video. The only different I use is that I don"t make the knot in the beginning but use an alligator clip to hold the shroud in place.
Post in thread 'LE FLEURON. 1729. 1\48. KUDIN ANDREY.(YouTube)' https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/le-fleuron-1729-1-48-kudin-andrey-youtube.3249/post-67179
 
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Sailor_ed said:
Quella foto di Lady Nelson mostra un sartiame in piedi così sbagliato che mi fanno male i denti. Di seguito sono riportate le foto della USS Constitution in fase di ri-trucco. Devi stare attento con le navi replica.

Venti favorevoli
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Buon pomeriggio, Marinaio, la penso come te, personalmente non li prendo in considerazione1643819229639.jpeg
 
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I think I should explain why deadeye height is important as it may give some insight into how "sailing" works.

When the ships rig is first set up and tensioned all the deadeyes would have been set up to the same or at least some regular height scheme ie all the topmast shroud deadeyes the same height, lower shrouds a could be a different but similar height. When underway this regularity assures the sailor that everything is "shipshape". If he notes one deadeye is out of alignment he instantly knows something is wrong. Has a seizing loosened? Is the throat slipping down the mast? The misalignment is an alarm bell.

Sailors have keen eyes to detail regarding their ships, it is a safety issue and a habit quickly acquired aboard a ship. Very little should be left to chance at sea.

Fair Winds.............Ed
 
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