Paul
Simply wonderful work enhanced further more by your humility
Kind Regards
Nigel
Simply wonderful work enhanced further more by your humility
Kind Regards
Nigel
Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]
- Thread starter dockattner
- Start date
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Jim, I think Paul is winding us all up here. I figured it out - he is professional ship model builder commissioned by Vasa museum. But it's OK, I'll live with his story.
....don't open a can of worms about 'museum quality and museum level'
, but you are correct, very high-quality modeling, for sure.
Jim....don't open a can of worms about 'museum quality and museum level'
I deliberately avoid that term
I have seen fantastic models that SHOULD be in a museum and some frankly crude models that are in a museum
Paul
All I would say is that if you chose to enter this in a competition, they is a very good chance you would win a medal in the kit class, what level depends on the opposition of the day.
Kind Regards
Nigel
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Dr. Paul, kinda late to the party but I echo all the superlatives and compliment you on surviving even the macro looks at your rigging- pretty rare to see that the camera doesn’t even reveal a flaw or two…. You are a meticulous modeler, your passion is showing!
Whatever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might.
Good afternoon Paul. I’ve been out of WiFi and connectivity and now I see this!!!!!! you have had enough compliments from everyone so no more. . Nothing left to add- Paul
, just an exclamation- Wow.
. Nothing left to add- Paul, just an exclamation- Wow.
Paul,
Just catching up- you images of 2,200 are absolutely brilliant !!!! -- Nigel is right this build would be super competitive along with the excellent chance of a win!
Just catching up- you images of 2,200 are absolutely brilliant !!!! -- Nigel is right this build would be super competitive along with the excellent chance of a win!
Once again, I find I need to offer my thanks for the many kind comments. I am humbled by your attention to my work.
I am presently researching what it would mean to go (more) vertical - and learning that I need to do some remedial work on my mast segments.
I had no idea that there were modeling 'competitions' - but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I knew there were 'exhibitions' but have never heard about one in my area. Honestly, I would love to attend something like this (these) to see the work of others in person.
I am presently researching what it would mean to go (more) vertical - and learning that I need to do some remedial work on my mast segments.
I had no idea that there were modeling 'competitions' - but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I knew there were 'exhibitions' but have never heard about one in my area. Honestly, I would love to attend something like this (these) to see the work of others in person.
I've got nothing else, Paul. That's an interesting product transition to realize when you need parts the most. I hope you receive your Mermen in short order.
Here's a picture you might not have yet, Paul. Found it on a Russian build log of HMS SotS. It may be in a book you already have.
very clean and very very accurate rigging work - Bravo
Stunning work as ever Paul. My compliments - You do set a very high bar.
Your detailed work is so clean and with your made ropes, the finish is excellent.
One question for you. In the post with the images of the various shroud rigging on the main mast, you appear to have three tackles/pendants. This is correct from the plans I have, but for each on your ship, there is a violin block used, except for the forward tackle (your picture below):
Why have you used a double block and not a violin block for this tackle? I don't know if it is correct or not but I am curious why you have done it this way..
I note that Landstrom (perhaps not the best reference shows all three tackles to have violin blocks (see below):
Probably the best description of the mast tackles is from the thesis by Howe, 2011 (Vasa_Blocks and Rigging). His description includes:
"The upper end of the mast tackles were usually fitted with fiddle (violin) blocks. Yet none were found outside the orlop except for the two that were clearly employed in the spritsail garnet tackles. In fact, Vasa was grossly short of fiddle blocks in general. In the 1620s a Dutch-rigged ship of Vasa’s size could have up to 25 fiddle blocks in the rig. Eva Marie Stolt’s (Stolt 1981) reconstruction of the ship’s rig calls for 16 fiddle blocks employed in the lower mast tackles and the spritsail garnet tackles. Fiddle blocks were also often rigged as an adjustable element at the forward end of the fore and main topmast stays, as part of the yard downhaul tackles, as garnet or winding tackles, or in the topsail yard halyards (Hoving 2000:71, 74, 75) (Figure 8.32). Yet only nine were recovered with Vasa, four of them being the peculiar non-stropped type, the use of which remains unclear. "
Just another of the many dilemmas of rigging and decisions we have to make.
PeterG
Your detailed work is so clean and with your made ropes, the finish is excellent.
One question for you. In the post with the images of the various shroud rigging on the main mast, you appear to have three tackles/pendants. This is correct from the plans I have, but for each on your ship, there is a violin block used, except for the forward tackle (your picture below):
Why have you used a double block and not a violin block for this tackle? I don't know if it is correct or not but I am curious why you have done it this way..
I note that Landstrom (perhaps not the best reference shows all three tackles to have violin blocks (see below):
Probably the best description of the mast tackles is from the thesis by Howe, 2011 (Vasa_Blocks and Rigging). His description includes:
"The upper end of the mast tackles were usually fitted with fiddle (violin) blocks. Yet none were found outside the orlop except for the two that were clearly employed in the spritsail garnet tackles. In fact, Vasa was grossly short of fiddle blocks in general. In the 1620s a Dutch-rigged ship of Vasa’s size could have up to 25 fiddle blocks in the rig. Eva Marie Stolt’s (Stolt 1981) reconstruction of the ship’s rig calls for 16 fiddle blocks employed in the lower mast tackles and the spritsail garnet tackles. Fiddle blocks were also often rigged as an adjustable element at the forward end of the fore and main topmast stays, as part of the yard downhaul tackles, as garnet or winding tackles, or in the topsail yard halyards (Hoving 2000:71, 74, 75) (Figure 8.32). Yet only nine were recovered with Vasa, four of them being the peculiar non-stropped type, the use of which remains unclear. "
Just another of the many dilemmas of rigging and decisions we have to make.
PeterG
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Interresting question. I know for sure there is always one fiddle and one with double block. That there where 3 tackles? Is new to me. And why Landstrom draw 3 fiddle is also new to me. Is Landstrom to trust about this? I follow up for the answer.
Thank you for your kind assessment of my early efforts at rigging Peter. Daniel also sent me a PM asking about this so let me explain my thinking here so we can all learn from each other.
The idea came from Anderson (sorry, I'm at work so I can't give you the precise quote or even page reference). He described (I think for foreign ships especially but my brain might be addled over this point) the use of four-line (four-fall) and five-line (five-fall) tackles. The four-line tackles used a violin block paired with a single block and the run started from a becket on the single block. The five-line tackles used two double blocks and the run started from a becket on the upper block.
In this discussion he wondered (he held this idea very loosely) if these were sometimes used in combination - and if they were, then the five-line would be rigged toward the open portion of the main deck. That is, the five-line block would be used aft on the foremast, and forward on the main. This is how I have rigged the mast tackles.
I'll add that while I am eager to get everything just right - I also did it this way for the purpose of visual interest.
I have not really been using Landstrom all that much (though his drawings are unmatched) and have settled in on Anderson (though the drawings in Mondfeld are very helpful when Anderson uses only words). I have concluded that Mondfeld can be sometimes unreliable (same comment for Landstrom). Of course, as I have said many times, I believe we think we know more about how things were done four hundred years ago than we actually know. But the effort must be made. When Vasa II finally gets published we will all end up crying...
The idea came from Anderson (sorry, I'm at work so I can't give you the precise quote or even page reference). He described (I think for foreign ships especially but my brain might be addled over this point) the use of four-line (four-fall) and five-line (five-fall) tackles. The four-line tackles used a violin block paired with a single block and the run started from a becket on the single block. The five-line tackles used two double blocks and the run started from a becket on the upper block.
In this discussion he wondered (he held this idea very loosely) if these were sometimes used in combination - and if they were, then the five-line would be rigged toward the open portion of the main deck. That is, the five-line block would be used aft on the foremast, and forward on the main. This is how I have rigged the mast tackles.
I'll add that while I am eager to get everything just right - I also did it this way for the purpose of visual interest.
I have not really been using Landstrom all that much (though his drawings are unmatched) and have settled in on Anderson (though the drawings in Mondfeld are very helpful when Anderson uses only words). I have concluded that Mondfeld can be sometimes unreliable (same comment for Landstrom). Of course, as I have said many times, I believe we think we know more about how things were done four hundred years ago than we actually know. But the effort must be made. When Vasa II finally gets published we will all end up crying...
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Thank you Paul.
I knew you would not have used this combination of rigging without having thought it through. My assessment is that you don’t do anything without research and thinking it through. This is abundantly evident by the quality of your work - Oh, for a tooth doctor down the road of your calibre!!
I like Landstrom, especially his artwork, but his detail has proven to be inaccurate. many Mondfield too, although good, may not always be relevant to a ship of Vasa’s age and origin. Anderson is excellent but again, unless he specifically refers to Dutch/Swedish ships, can be a guide only.
The visual variation I can appreciate. Attention to detail, as you demonstrate is paramount. Let me assure you, it gets worse with running rigging. I have many unanswered questions where you make a decision about a line or rig arrangement and then later change it. But, in the end, so long as YOU are happy with your decision, move on to the next bit.
Certainly the Vasa II book would assist, but with the lack of recovered rigging from the ship, many of their (Fred Hocker et al) suppositions will be wrong too. We can only do our best, and yours is a wonderful example of that!!
Regards,
PeterG
I knew you would not have used this combination of rigging without having thought it through. My assessment is that you don’t do anything without research and thinking it through. This is abundantly evident by the quality of your work - Oh, for a tooth doctor down the road of your calibre!!
I like Landstrom, especially his artwork, but his detail has proven to be inaccurate. many Mondfield too, although good, may not always be relevant to a ship of Vasa’s age and origin. Anderson is excellent but again, unless he specifically refers to Dutch/Swedish ships, can be a guide only.
The visual variation I can appreciate. Attention to detail, as you demonstrate is paramount. Let me assure you, it gets worse with running rigging. I have many unanswered questions where you make a decision about a line or rig arrangement and then later change it. But, in the end, so long as YOU are happy with your decision, move on to the next bit.
Certainly the Vasa II book would assist, but with the lack of recovered rigging from the ship, many of their (Fred Hocker et al) suppositions will be wrong too. We can only do our best, and yours is a wonderful example of that!!
Regards,
PeterG
- Joined
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That is so well put Peter - this kind of posting shows great objectivity, logic and above all maturity on a subject that can be best described as one riddled with assumptions and suppositions!
Thank you Heinrich. I try to choose my words carefully, especially with someone like Paul, where 'care' is his raison d'etre. Very kind words.
Yet another hijack of Paul's voluminous Build Log...It's no wonder we are on Page 112....
PeterG
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