Vasa Build Log - Billing Boats - Scale 1/75 [COMPLETED BUILD]

Brilliant Peter. I have nothing but admiration for your research and execution against that research. Of course, I have nothing intelligent to say about the mizzen sail at my point in the learning process. I'm still trying to figure out where to terminate topgallant stays...

I see you rigged backstays. They look fantastic by the way. Could you please walk me through your decision to include those?
 
Many thanks to you all for your kind support and comments. Again I apologise for a sort of ‘leap ahead’ without any build notes added. I have been juggling the Vasa with some actual, money-paying work (and you all know where the Boss sets the priorities) so the build log has taken a bit of a back seat.

The question regarding the mizzenmast remains something of a dilemma and when you reach this point (Daniel and Paul), you will be faced with the same issue and see what I mean.

Paul, I am not sure which lines you are calling ‘backstays’ - If you are referring to the stays in the shroud sets, these are as per the museum and Billings rigging plans. We have discussed these lines before and the use of violin blocks etc.

If you are referring to the lines running aft from the main and fore masts, these are on the museum rigging plans but also detailed in Clayton’s photos of his scratch build. Clayton conferred closely with Fred Hocker and so I used their guidance in rigging these lines. If you want me to take more detailed photos, let me know and I will get some.

PeterG
 
If you are referring to the lines running aft from the main and fore masts, these are on the museum rigging plans but also detailed in Clayton’s photos of his scratch build. Clayton conferred closely with Fred Hocker and so I used their guidance in rigging these lines. If you want me to take more detailed photos, let me know and I will get some.
Thank you, Peter. I was referring to the aft running lines that end in crowsfeet tied to the stay. In one picture it appears this is a backstay for a topgallant and I seem to remember Fred saying it was unlikely she had backstays on the topgallants... I'm probably just remembering wrong or misinterpreting your picture.

Any chance you could just post a picture of the full ship from the side or a few angles?
 
Thanks Paul,

Below are a couple of photos with more backstay detail.

460CADEC-CC07-473B-A577-11FD8783B7A2.jpeg

6790EAE4-62AE-4424-8620-DB04010CBDF5.jpeg

7AEAF624-447B-4F99-9F5E-61C28AC5149E.jpeg

Returning to Wasa forum and your questions regarding backstays, Mark3l posted the question:

I'm looking at photographs of the 1:10 model and rigging instructions from the Billings kit. Both seem to show backstays for the fore topmast, fore topgallant, main topmast, and main topgallant, all with fairly complex combinations of blocks and crowsfeet. Clayton's model doesn't have these backstays; is there any concrete information on which is correct, or is there no evidence either way?”

Fred Hocker responded:

“There is no clear evidence either way, but I think that on balance there were probably topmast backstays on the fore and main. This is different from what I told Clayton when he was rigging his model, but we had not documented the chainwales at that point. The chainplate fixing points on the fore and main suggest one backstay to the topmast head, probably rigged from the next-to-last chainplate position and probably rigged as running backstays. Backstays are attested in English sources from the beginning of the 17th century (they appear in the survey of fleet rigging carried out in 1611, for example) and show up in images of ships at about the same time. Baltic practice may have been a little behind developments in the more demanding North Sea/Atlantic basin, and the detailed inventory of the rigging for Tre Kronor in 1626 is not definitive, but I think that they were in use on large ships by the 1620s.”

Link for above is :

https://warshipvasa.freeforums.net/thread/140/topmast-backstays

So Fred is saying that backstays were most likely present (albeit without direct evidence) for the upper topmasts (but he does not specifically reference the topgallant spars, and he is probably being non-committal as there is no evidence from the ship’s salvaging either way.)

My museum rigging plans and Billings plans (as well as many models detailed in previous builds eg Mark3l, md1400cs, Fmodajr, Karleop) and even the German Museum- link:

https://www.modelships.de/Vasa_II_Janssen/dIMG_5922.jpg),

all include topgallant backstays, so I am amongst good company. Just to clarify that, the upper backstay pendant attaches from the top of the topgallant head and a second pendant/crow feet arrangement at the topsail head on the foremast but only the topgallant head on the mainmast.

Interestingly, on the museum rigging plan (see below), there IS a single pendant backstay from the mainmast topsail top (at the foot of the topgallant), which goes directly to the knight head at the foot of the mizzenmast and therefore has no crows feet. I have opted not to have this backstay as it is not consistently represented (eg it is not on the museum 1/10 model), so I guess it is up to the whim of the modeller.

6F5CBB3D-D108-4B9E-AFD0-AA6780725D57.jpeg

Note too that Clayton’s model does NOT have topgallants, ending his mast height at the upper topsails (see picture below from his website with link):

https://sites.google.com/site/clayton707/swedishwarshipwasa

1648076513775.jpeg

Hope this helps Paul,

Regards

PeterG
 
Last edited:
Peter,
She's looking very excellent. As you know I also used the Billings rigging sheets for my Corel with added sails - very happy with the results and as Fred said information is a bit sketchy indeed. Clayton's was also a great reference!!

When I spent time with Dr Hocker in Stockholm (a too brief hour at the museum) we spoke about the rigging of the 1/10th - He mentioned that a few bits were based on English ships of that period.
He was also kind enough to invite me to visit into the research area - not open to the public - I have an image of he and I in the lab area - damn if I can find it - was going to share lol -
He did say that they are still "mining" the area and still find lots of artifacts that will eventually be placed for public view.
I visited the museum in the mid-nineties when I was working - had a two day layover. Went back in in 2018 with my son as a tourist (SAS very nice carrier)-

The differences of then and now are really amazing. SO much more to see there now. It's also one of the most popular museums in Europe. And Stockholm not too shabby either haha...

Regards,
 
Many thanks @oldflyer, I appreciate your comments. I first visited the Vasa Museum in 2017 during a Baltic cruise and it was that cruise and visit which inspired me to build the ship. Unfortunately I have not had the pleasure of meeting Fred Hocker but we have communicated a few times on the Wasa Forum and by email. He is an inspirational and extremely knowledgeable man.

Stockholm too is a wonderful city and although we visited for only a few days on our cruise, it was a wonderful and welcoming city, especially to us Aussies.

I am travelling and working a bit at the moment so the ship isn’t getting too much attention but when I get back, I hope to dive in to finish it off. I have already taken some steps towards my next build…

Regards,
PeterG
 
I only recently discovered SOS and so wasn't entering a build log as I went for the last few months of a build of the Swedish Vasa from the Billing Boat kit. My name is Peter, and I live in the snow country of south-east Australia. About 12 months ago, following a cruise in the Baltic Sea my wife and I visited the amazing Vasamuseet in Stockholm, I commenced building the Vasa. This is the second large Billing Boat I have constructed, the first being the Cutty Sark, almost 40 years ago. This model is proudly displayed in a glass case in our home and has been a talking point and feature most of my life. Hopefully, while I now have more time, the Vasa will be the same.

I have read many of the build logs regarding the Vasa and of these, there are builds from kits of Corel, Sergal/Mantua, Billing and more recently the De Agostini release from Italy. Prior the DeAgostini model (by ModelSpace), a number of writers commented that they felt the Billing Boat's Vasa was the most accurate. It was available before the DeAgostini model release, and so my choice was the Billing Boats kit when I made the purchase. Having now progressed through this build, overall I am very happy with the content of materials (although I have substituted some timbers), and scratched a number of items (eg below decks cannon mounts etc). The instructions are limited and short on detail, but the build logs have subsequently helped and filled in some of the 'gaps'.

The kit packaging and delivered product was complete with no obvious broken parts or missing items. One thing that I did notice was that hull planking used timber referred to as 'Obechi'. While this was included, I did not like its scaled width or thickness, and so I did some maths to scale the planking of the actual ship pictures I had, and then purchased some 5 x 1 mm mahogany in precut strips. This to me, was a much better planking material, and better for the scaling appearance of the ship. A similar argument held for the deck planking and so I milled some of the mahogany to use for this as well. Different stain/treatments were also used to maintain reasonable appearance and weathering effects.


Bulkhead layout was straightforward but the bulkhead extensions above deck (which were instructed to be 'thinned') were weak and fragile. Some of these broke in the process of the build, especially with the deck plywood fitting and so I trimmed these and added extensions later when the planking was built up above the deck level. The decking base needed some trimming but this was minimal and fitted satisfactorily.


Before any comments are made about the Smirnoff bottles in the background, these are holding raw alcohol which I intend to use in assisting the bending of planks. This is to be an experiment, but I have read where it is more effective than water and/or steam bending. More on this later!!

Thanks - more soon

Peter G.
Hallo @PeterG
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Birthday-Cake
 
Happy birthday Peter! May the year ahead be one full of good health and great modeling. You already have me queuing up to see what the next build will be.
 
Many thanks to all those who wished me a Happy Birthday - I had forgotten that my birth date was in the SOS system!! This was a 'special' birthday as it's my 70th year. As a surprise, my wife said, "Your not having a party - Instead, I am taking you on a week's holiday!!".

"Where to" I asked.

"You'll see..." She replied.

Well two days later, I arrived at Uluru for a few days, and then on to Kings Canyon (another Northern Territory highlight). For those who don't know, Uluru is the Aboriginal name for what used to be known as Ayres Rock. There is a resort nearby called 'Sails In The Desert' where we stayed. Just a great few days with lots of walking, 31-34 degree Centigrade temperature, and perfect blue sky weather.

Uluru is one BIG pebble, takes about 3 hours to walk around (the base) and used to be a rock you could climb (until 3 years ago). The sunsets/sunrises and dinner under the stars in the shadow of the rock are just the most amazing experiences - A truly great birthday gift!!

1649903249592.png

Again, many thanks for the birthday wishes,

Regards,

PeterG
 
Many thanks to all those who wished me a Happy Birthday - I had forgotten that my birth date was in the SOS system!! This was a 'special' birthday as it's my 70th year. As a surprise, my wife said, "Your not having a party - Instead, I am taking you on a week's holiday!!".

"Where to" I asked.

"You'll see..." She replied.

Well two days later, I arrived at Uluru for a few days, and then on to Kings Canyon (another Northern Territory highlight). For those who don't know, Uluru is the Aboriginal name for what used to be known as Ayres Rock. There is a resort nearby called 'Sails In The Desert' where we stayed. Just a great few days with lots of walking, 31-34 degree Centigrade temperature, and perfect blue sky weather.

Uluru is one BIG pebble, takes about 3 hours to walk around (the base) and used to be a rock you could climb (until 3 years ago). The sunsets/sunrises and dinner under the stars in the shadow of the rock are just the most amazing experiences - A truly great birthday gift!!

View attachment 302908

Again, many thanks for the birthday wishes,

Regards,

PeterG
What a wonderful time. It's good to do things like that now while you can. I'm glad you had a good one.
 
Many thanks to all those who wished me a Happy Birthday - I had forgotten that my birth date was in the SOS system!! This was a 'special' birthday as it's my 70th year. As a surprise, my wife said, "Your not having a party - Instead, I am taking you on a week's holiday!!".

"Where to" I asked.

"You'll see..." She replied.

Well two days later, I arrived at Uluru for a few days, and then on to Kings Canyon (another Northern Territory highlight). For those who don't know, Uluru is the Aboriginal name for what used to be known as Ayres Rock. There is a resort nearby called 'Sails In The Desert' where we stayed. Just a great few days with lots of walking, 31-34 degree Centigrade temperature, and perfect blue sky weather.

Uluru is one BIG pebble, takes about 3 hours to walk around (the base) and used to be a rock you could climb (until 3 years ago). The sunsets/sunrises and dinner under the stars in the shadow of the rock are just the most amazing experiences - A truly great birthday gift!!

View attachment 302908

Again, many thanks for the birthday wishes,

Regards,

PeterG
Awesome sounds like a fantastic way to celebrate.
My wife and I spent some time in the same area at the end of 2019 just before covid, great memories.
 
On my return from the birthday treat, I have gotten back into a bit more rigging. I am working on the spritsail and finishing the mizzen but in the background, the thought has occurred to me that I do not have too much longer to finish this ship. Obviously, there is still a lot to do and it will take a couple of months, but the end is distantly in sight. So, I thought, "What next???" As it happens, a few years ago during a trip to England (when travel was unencumbered by Covid etc), my wife and I visited HMS Victory in Portsmouth. As my experience in modelling the Vasa has been underpinned by the amount of research and acquired information about the ship (from the Vasamuseet, research papers etc etc), and with the HMS Victory, similar research was existing, and so it seemed like a logical choice.

I think I am reasonably committed now to it's being my next venture and so I started to do some research of the ship and available kits. If you trawl through the various Build Logs with a 'Victory' keyword search there are a huge number of modeller's been down this route. There is also some excellent background research and descriptive build books available. The one thing that stood out as possibly the 'best' and most complete Victory model on offer today, is the Caldercraft (JoTika) HMS Victory, made in Britain but incredibly difficult get get hold of at the moment. Most distributors are out of stock and while this is probably only a temporary thing, at the moment, it is difficult, and expensive - We are talking about a big model and a price tag to match.

One thing however which came out of this research of a new kit that I was not fully aware of, is the marketing and availability of model kit 'copies' or 'knock-offs'. Call me "naive" to the bad ways of the world!! In particular, I became aware of some companies promoting model kits (including the HMS Victory), which are referred to as 'knock-offs' and which clearly are direct copies of existing and well regarded model kit manufacturer's products. This is a huge problem for the model ship manufacturers, to have their design work effectively 'stolen' and then marketed to unsuspecting modellers who are not aware they are buying a considerably cheaper copy of a legitimate ship kit.

Evidence of this practice led me to an especially good article on the NRG (Nautical Research Guild) website here "https://thenrg.org/resource/articles/anatomy-of-a-knock-off" by Chris Coyle and James Hatch. I would urge all those thinking of purchasing one of these (especially Chinese) kits to read this article - It is most convincing and inarguable as to the piracy that is being committed. In particular, one of the companies named in this article (and there are similar discussions on MSW, where certain manufacturer kit build logs are banned), was the ZHL model of HMS Victory. It is about half the cost of the Caldercraft model kit and would be very tempting for many modellers.

In my research of the ZHL Model website, interestingly, I was amazed to see that the FIRST thing you see when you open the website, is a US Trade and Patent certificate issued by the US Patent and Trademark Office. If you do a search of the company and registration number, sure enough, this is a valid trademark issued by the US - How can that be when their products are clearly knock-offs??

1649905145857.png

Delving further into their website, I was intrigued at one associated article in their Forum which detailed a Build Log of their model of the Flying Dutchman. This fictitious ship has been modelled and detailed as an available kit but as you go through the Build Log (link is here). A picture of the hull being built is below. Does this look familiar?????

1649905622333.png

1649908125386.png

On going through the Build Log further, I then found references to the original Vasamuseet Vasa ship plans, and these were shown:

1649905881750.png

So the Vasa, has been used as the basis for the design and building of this Flying Dutchman ship. Very interesting. An additional link for this is here. Note too that (I don't know where in the world), but there is a full size replica of the Flying Dutchman and this is referred to extensively on the website.

1649906116885.png

This is all just a NEW and parallel universe to me. It makes for interesting, but almost scary corruption of a seemingly benign hobby industry relating to model ship building!! It is NOT an industry or aspect to the industry which should be sought out or bought from, in my opinion.

Regards,

PeterG
 
Last edited:
On my return from the birthday treat, I have gotten back into a bit more rigging. I am working on the spritsail and finishing the mizzen but in the background, the thought has occurred to me that I do not have too much longer to finish this ship. Obviously, there is still a lot to do and it will take a couple of months, but the end is distantly in sight. So, I thought, "What next???" As it happens, a few years ago during a trip to England (when travel was unencumbered by Covid etc), my wife and I visited HMS Victory in Portsmouth. As my experience in modelling the Vasa has been underpinned by the amount of research and acquired information about the ship (from the Vasamuseet, research papers etc etc), and with the HMS Victory, similar research was existing, and so it seemed like a logical choice.

I think I am reasonably committed now to it's being my next venture and so I started to do some research of the ship and available kits. If you trawl through the various Build Logs with a 'Victory' keyword search there are a huge number of modeller's been down this route. There is also some excellent background research and descriptive build books available. The one thing that stood out as possibly the 'best' and most complete Victory model on offer today, is the Caldercraft (JoTika) HMS Victory, made in Britain but incredibly difficult get get hold of at the moment. Most distributors are out of stock and while this is probably only a temporary thing, at the moment, it is difficult, and expensive - We are talking about a big model and a price tag to match.

One thing however which came out of this research of a new kit that I was not fully aware of, is the marketing and availability of model kit 'copies' or 'knock-offs'. Call me "naive" to the bad ways of the world!! In particular, I became aware of some companies promoting model kits (including the HMS Victory), which are referred to as 'knock-offs' and which clearly are direct copies of existing and well regarded model kit manufacturer's products. This is a huge problem for the model ship manufacturers, to have their design work effectively 'stolen' and then marketed to unsuspecting modellers who are not aware they are buying a considerably cheaper copy of a legitimate ship kit.

Evidence of this practice led me to an especially good article on the NRG (Nautical Research Guild) website here "https://thenrg.org/resource/articles/anatomy-of-a-knock-off" by Chris Coyle and James Hatch. I would urge all those thinking of purchasing one of these (especially Chinese) kits to read this article - It is most convincing and inarguable as to the piracy that is being committed. In particular, one of the companies named in this article (and there are similar discussions on MSW, where certain manufacturer kit build logs are banned), was the ZHL model of HMS Victory. It is about half the cost of the Caldercraft model kit and would be very tempting for many modellers.

In my research of the ZHL Model website, interestingly, I was amazed to see that the FIRST thing you see when you open the website, is a US Trade and Patent certificate issued by the US Patent and Trademark Office. If you do a search of the company and registration number, sure enough, this is a valid trademark issued by the US - How can that be when their products are clearly knock-offs??

View attachment 302909

Delving further into their website, I was intrigued at one associated article in their Forum which detailed a Build Log of their model of the Flying Dutchman. This fictitious ship has been modelled and detailed as an available kit but as you go through the Build Log (link is here). A picture of the hull being built is below. Does this look familiar?????

View attachment 302910

View attachment 302915

On going through the Build Log further, I then found references to the original Vasamuseet Vasa ship plans, and these were shown:

View attachment 302911

So the Vasa, has been used as the basis for the design and building of this Flying Dutchman ship. Very interesting. An additional link for this is here. Note too that (I don't know where in the world), but there is a full size replica of the Flying Dutchman and this is referred to extensively on the website.

View attachment 302912

This is all just a NEW and parallel universe to me. It makes for interesting, but almost scary corruption of a seemingly benign hobby industry relating to model ship building!! It is NOT an industry or aspect to the industry which should be sought out or bought from, in my opinion.

Regards,

PeterG
Good morning Peter. Thanks for this feedback. Re the Victory kit decision. I bought the Mantua and as my first build I had no idea what I was entering into. To get a historically accurate build this kit needs massive modifications and plenty extra wood, belay pins, rings etc etc have to be bought. (I have not done this just doing best I can). In addition the rope and blocks also need replacing. In my research this applies to most Victory kits. Caldercraft is by far the best and while more expensive, after one has to buy so many extras for other Kits the price differential is not so bad anymore. If you can wait for the supply you will enjoy the kit build more- unless of course you love scratch making parts.

The Pirate kits - super interesting however I do leave this decision to each individual choice. That is just me. I do feel there is a consequence to the industry tho and personally prefer buying non pirate kits. The knock on is so prevalent to almost every aspect of life and is a huge problem world wide.

Good to hear you had a magnificent birthday trip.

Cheers Grant
 
Back
Top