Don, that looks great. 
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YUANQING BLUENOSE - Don Robinson
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Well this was supposed to be my week of working on the HMS Ontario and I was doing good until today.
I asked a simple question to @PT-2 about mast hoops then @Canoe21 cuts in and shows pictures of his homemade mast hoops! It was if they were both daring me to stop work on the Ontario and go back to the Bluenose for a day. The dare worked and I did stray away for a bit:
This not originally my idea, I seen this somewhere a long time ago. What you do is to take plane shavings, in this case I used walnut, and use these to make mast hoops. The piece I used was 15 cm long which ended up being the perfect length to give the proper thickness.
Drop the shavings into a diluted mixture of pva glue, I use Weldbond, within seconds they will double in diameter size and are flexible enough to use.
I am using a 13/32" bit here, which ended up being a almost perfect fit. On the bit I have put a tiny drop of ca glue to help hold the strip in place then it is a matter of gently wrapping the strip around the bit on top of itself.
Sorry for the poor picture but I was rushing before the glue dried. On the very end of the strip I added a little bit more ca glue in order to hold it in place and to speed things up.
As soon as the ca glue is applied start removing the hoop. Gently go around the hoop with the back of your blade pushing the hoop off the drill bit. Doing this also helps align the wraps of strip.
Put aside to dry
When dry I used my forefinger to sand each side smooth and to bring the thickness down to around 1.2 mm from the 1.5 mm original thickness. I used 320 grit sandpaper for this. To be right on scale the width should be .07 mm which would equal 2 " in real life.
After sanding the edges I put the hoop back on the drill bit to do the final sanding with a 600 grit sanding stick. I did the face and also rounded off the edges a slight bit.
Gave them a quick soak in some boiled linseed oil. You can notice two of these are not quite as thick, as this was all just a test I used some shorter pieces of shavings too see how they looked.
These are not perfectly cleaned up but this is just a practice run to see if this technique is worthwhile.
And here is the final result. I am happy with the results. This is the actual mast from the kit I am using, so you can see the fit is not too bad. Have any of you noticed that all the masts, booms and spars are already tapered for us? What a bonus!!
I spent a lot of time on the first few until I finally got the final procedure down right. After that I was easily completing one hoop in approx fifteen minutes, excluding drying times. If you decide to go this route just think of it as one hoop is less work than a carriage assembly which you are not building for the Bluenose!!! Now that I know the results are satisfactory I'll be making the real ones from pear.
Hope you enjoyed. Back to the Ontario for me.
I asked a simple question to @PT-2 about mast hoops then @Canoe21 cuts in and shows pictures of his homemade mast hoops! It was if they were both daring me to stop work on the Ontario and go back to the Bluenose for a day. The dare worked and I did stray away for a bit:
This not originally my idea, I seen this somewhere a long time ago. What you do is to take plane shavings, in this case I used walnut, and use these to make mast hoops. The piece I used was 15 cm long which ended up being the perfect length to give the proper thickness.
Drop the shavings into a diluted mixture of pva glue, I use Weldbond, within seconds they will double in diameter size and are flexible enough to use.
I am using a 13/32" bit here, which ended up being a almost perfect fit. On the bit I have put a tiny drop of ca glue to help hold the strip in place then it is a matter of gently wrapping the strip around the bit on top of itself.
Sorry for the poor picture but I was rushing before the glue dried. On the very end of the strip I added a little bit more ca glue in order to hold it in place and to speed things up.
As soon as the ca glue is applied start removing the hoop. Gently go around the hoop with the back of your blade pushing the hoop off the drill bit. Doing this also helps align the wraps of strip.
Put aside to dry
When dry I used my forefinger to sand each side smooth and to bring the thickness down to around 1.2 mm from the 1.5 mm original thickness. I used 320 grit sandpaper for this. To be right on scale the width should be .07 mm which would equal 2 " in real life.
After sanding the edges I put the hoop back on the drill bit to do the final sanding with a 600 grit sanding stick. I did the face and also rounded off the edges a slight bit.
Gave them a quick soak in some boiled linseed oil. You can notice two of these are not quite as thick, as this was all just a test I used some shorter pieces of shavings too see how they looked.
These are not perfectly cleaned up but this is just a practice run to see if this technique is worthwhile.
And here is the final result. I am happy with the results. This is the actual mast from the kit I am using, so you can see the fit is not too bad. Have any of you noticed that all the masts, booms and spars are already tapered for us? What a bonus!!
I spent a lot of time on the first few until I finally got the final procedure down right. After that I was easily completing one hoop in approx fifteen minutes, excluding drying times. If you decide to go this route just think of it as one hoop is less work than a carriage assembly which you are not building for the Bluenose!!!
Now that I know the results are satisfactory I'll be making the real ones from pear.Hope you enjoyed. Back to the Ontario for me.
Last edited:
Canoe21
Lawrence
Hello Don, Great results with the mast hoops, I have heard of this idea before but never gave it a try. For sure the pear will bend much easier than the walnut.Well this was supposed to be my week of working on the HMS Ontario and I was doing good until today.
I asked a simple question to @PT-2 about mast hoops then @Canoe21 cuts in and shows pictures of his homemade mast hoops! It was if they were both daring me to stop work on the Ontario and go back to the Bluenose for a day. The dare worked and I did stray away for a bit:
View attachment 203964
This not originally my idea, I seen this somewhere a long time ago. What you do is to take plane shavings, in this case I used walnut, and use these to make mast hoops. The piece I used was 15 cm long which ended up being the perfect length to give the proper thickness.
View attachment 203965
Drop the shavings into a diluted mixture of pva glue, I use Weldbond, within seconds they will double in diameter size and are flexible enough to use.
View attachment 203966
I am using a 13/32" bit here, which ended up being a almost perfect fit. On the bit I have put a tiny drop of ca glue to help hold the strip in place then it is a matter of gently wrapping the strip around the bit on top of itself.
View attachment 203967
Sorry for the poor picture but I was rushing before the glue dried. On the very end of the strip I added a little bit more ca glue in order to hold it in place and to speed things up.
View attachment 203968
As soon as the ca glue is applied start removing the hoop. Gently go around the hoop with the back of your blade pushing the hoop off the drill bit. Doing this also helps align the wraps of strip.
View attachment 203969
Put aside to dry
View attachment 203970
When dry I used my forefinger to sand each side smooth and to bring the thickness down to around 1.2 mm from the 1.5 mm original thickness. I used 320 grit sandpaper for this. To be right on scale the width should be .07 mm which would equal 2 " in real life.
View attachment 203971
After sanding the edges I put the hoop back on the drill bit to do the final sanding with a 600 grit sanding stick. I did the face and also rounded off the edges a slight bit.
View attachment 203972
Gave them a quick soak in some boiled linseed oil. You can notice two of these are not quite as thick, as this was all just a test I used some shorter pieces of shavings too see how they looked.
These are not perfectly cleaned up but this is just a practice run to see if this technique is worthwhile.
View attachment 203973
And here is the final result. I am happy with the results. This is the actual mast from the kit I am using, so you can see the fit is not too bad. Have any of you noticed that all the masts, booms and spars are already tapered for us? What a bonus!!
I spent a lot of time on the first few until I finally got the final procedure down right. After that I was easily completing one hoop in approx fifteen minutes, excluding drying times. If you decide to go this route just think of it as one hoop is less work than a carriage assembly which you are not building for the Bluenose!!!
Hope you enjoyed. Back to the Ontario for me.
Regards Lawrence
This is essentially the same procedure that I took a year or so ago with the same results. Well done!!! They are far better than the laser cut hoops in the MS2130 kit which I cut out but will probably abandon. There was another question that came in as to how many hoops were used in the original Bluenose. From the specifications for that schooner I found quantities for the two diameters: 36 24" and 24 13". I found that two were set below the tack as spares for each mast taking four out from the lower mast count of 36 leaves 32 between the fore and main masts or 16 hoops on each (if this assumption is correct). I have not found that spares were provided at the top masts but for replacement needs they were very likely there, at leas during the long fishing season runs, OK four out of 24 leaves 20 between the fore top and main top masts or 10 per top mast. I cannot guarantee this but it is from the original specs quantities for sizes and having found the placement of 2 spares below, just above the jaws of the boom and top sails. Borrowing from the sail/rigging drawings for Bluenose II I counted: Lower main 15, 14 lower fore; and 14 top main including 5 above the cross trees and 10 on the top main mast itself; 5 on the fore above the cross trees and 9 on the fore top mast itself. I may have made an error in my visual count on both in the area of the main above the cross trees to the top of that mast to the transition to the top mast itself where the hoops are very plain for both main and fore. As the book Bluenose II Saga of the Fishing Schooners with measured drawings is under copyright I don't want to make additional images. I do again highly recommend acquisition of the book which is by Nimbus Publishing, nimbus.ca, copyright 1994. It contains information and drawings for both Bluenose schooners and is a highly insightful resource. RichWell this was supposed to be my week of working on the HMS Ontario and I was doing good until today.
I asked a simple question to @PT-2 about mast hoops then @Canoe21 cuts in and shows pictures of his homemade mast hoops! It was if they were both daring me to stop work on the Ontario and go back to the Bluenose for a day. The dare worked and I did stray away for a bit:
View attachment 203964
This not originally my idea, I seen this somewhere a long time ago. What you do is to take plane shavings, in this case I used walnut, and use these to make mast hoops. The piece I used was 15 cm long which ended up being the perfect length to give the proper thickness.
View attachment 203965
Drop the shavings into a diluted mixture of pva glue, I use Weldbond, within seconds they will double in diameter size and are flexible enough to use.
View attachment 203966
I am using a 13/32" bit here, which ended up being a almost perfect fit. On the bit I have put a tiny drop of ca glue to help hold the strip in place then it is a matter of gently wrapping the strip around the bit on top of itself.
View attachment 203967
Sorry for the poor picture but I was rushing before the glue dried. On the very end of the strip I added a little bit more ca glue in order to hold it in place and to speed things up.
View attachment 203968
As soon as the ca glue is applied start removing the hoop. Gently go around the hoop with the back of your blade pushing the hoop off the drill bit. Doing this also helps align the wraps of strip.
View attachment 203969
Put aside to dry
View attachment 203970
When dry I used my forefinger to sand each side smooth and to bring the thickness down to around 1.2 mm from the 1.5 mm original thickness. I used 320 grit sandpaper for this. To be right on scale the width should be .07 mm which would equal 2 " in real life.
View attachment 203971
After sanding the edges I put the hoop back on the drill bit to do the final sanding with a 600 grit sanding stick. I did the face and also rounded off the edges a slight bit.
View attachment 203972
Gave them a quick soak in some boiled linseed oil. You can notice two of these are not quite as thick, as this was all just a test I used some shorter pieces of shavings too see how they looked.
These are not perfectly cleaned up but this is just a practice run to see if this technique is worthwhile.
View attachment 203973
And here is the final result. I am happy with the results. This is the actual mast from the kit I am using, so you can see the fit is not too bad. Have any of you noticed that all the masts, booms and spars are already tapered for us? What a bonus!!
I spent a lot of time on the first few until I finally got the final procedure down right. After that I was easily completing one hoop in approx fifteen minutes, excluding drying times. If you decide to go this route just think of it as one hoop is less work than a carriage assembly which you are not building for the Bluenose!!!
Hope you enjoyed. Back to the Ontario for me.
Thanks again Rich, book is on order!
With your younger eyes you will be better able to read the small handwritten script.. I read an old article describing Bluenose II and the drawings that were originally on large 40x48 inch boards which explains their reduction in size for the book. It is well worth the cost for the insights. Enjoy. Rich
I accidentally stumbled/scanned across a microscopic note that the mast hoops are spaced 30 inches apart up luff side of the sails with the bolt rope hem on the starboard side The scale drawings and graphic scale match that the seams of the sail canvass are 20 inches apart, following the spec for 22 inch canvass, and the hoops grommet holes are 30 inches apart. The fisherman's staysail is always set on the windward side but this may not be relevant if there are no sails set in the presentation. Clew lines and associated blocks are always on starboard opposite with Europe where they are on port. Lastly, if anyone has noticed the blocks and tackle on the bottom of the main and fore boom they are used to hold the booms outboard when running before the wind in rolling seas; however, I don't see those rigging elements in the YQ model's generally simplified rigging and lack of sails. So. . . this is just to whet your curiosity and perhaps satisfy some questions as I am able to cast a fly over the water waiting for a rise from below. None of this is guaranteed but only as I understand it as of this point in time. Rich
- Joined
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Great information.
I am learning so much from different contributors.
Thanks all!
I am learning so much from different contributors.
Thanks all!
Hey everyone, how are things going. Lots of work was done here but unfortunately not much to show:
A momentous stage, all the frames have been glued.
The last of the frames have been sanded.
Sanding was a big job, I did end up using my oscillating drum sander to do the initial sanding then finished off by hand. I used 80 grit on the sander followed by 120, 220 and 320 to finish them. As careful as I thought I was being I did end up breaking 6 of the frames but all were easily fixed and should not be a problem. Sanding the ends of the frames is kind of iffy as it is sometimes hard to get them to look good as you will see later, so be careful when sanding and don't make the same mistakes as I did.
You will not only need to file or sand the notch that goes over the keel but also the the inside notch. For this I took pieces 48, 39 and 50 and made sure each frame fit properly on these as well as the keel.
Here after hours and hours of sanding and filing all the frames are completed
Don't forget to drill out frame 31, it is the only one with these steps. I am using the sherline mill with the sensitive drilling attachment so I was unable to use the DRO for and accurate measurement but I'm sure the tape method will do just fine.
I have started the gluing process. Here frames 1 and 49 are glued in place, as stated previously in Heinrich's log, The other frames have just been placed at this time, I was trying to figure out how the frames can be installed. I can say that it is impossible to just slid them in! As I suspected you cannot just slide them in as the notches will not allow that. The only way, and I'll gladly be corrected, is to bring them in from the bottom. What I have been doing is to bring them in from the bottom, put the frame into the notches, apply some glue into the top notch then slide into place. After this is done I apply a little ca glue to the bottom of the frames to attach them to the jig.
This might not be explained very well so I will post some pictures so of this procedure when I am done with this.
These are now permanently fixed, notice how the frames sit by the rabit. This is what I mean by being careful, I will now have to pick a line and fair them all evenly. If this was being planked on both sides I would not worry too much about it. Also to note I am finding that some of the frames do not sit flush on the table and sit tight in the keel notches, so you will need to decide whether to push them up tight to the keel or have them sitting flush on the table.
And just to show how the off ship fairing is looking so far.
I will be back soon with picture of installing the frames.
A momentous stage, all the frames have been glued.
The last of the frames have been sanded.
Sanding was a big job, I did end up using my oscillating drum sander to do the initial sanding then finished off by hand. I used 80 grit on the sander followed by 120, 220 and 320 to finish them. As careful as I thought I was being I did end up breaking 6 of the frames but all were easily fixed and should not be a problem. Sanding the ends of the frames is kind of iffy as it is sometimes hard to get them to look good as you will see later, so be careful when sanding and don't make the same mistakes as I did.
You will not only need to file or sand the notch that goes over the keel but also the the inside notch. For this I took pieces 48, 39 and 50 and made sure each frame fit properly on these as well as the keel.
Here after hours and hours of sanding and filing all the frames are completed
Don't forget to drill out frame 31, it is the only one with these steps. I am using the sherline mill with the sensitive drilling attachment so I was unable to use the DRO for and accurate measurement but I'm sure the tape method will do just fine.
I have started the gluing process. Here frames 1 and 49 are glued in place, as stated previously in Heinrich's log, The other frames have just been placed at this time, I was trying to figure out how the frames can be installed. I can say that it is impossible to just slid them in! As I suspected you cannot just slide them in as the notches will not allow that. The only way, and I'll gladly be corrected, is to bring them in from the bottom. What I have been doing is to bring them in from the bottom, put the frame into the notches, apply some glue into the top notch then slide into place. After this is done I apply a little ca glue to the bottom of the frames to attach them to the jig.
This might not be explained very well so I will post some pictures so of this procedure when I am done with this.
These are now permanently fixed, notice how the frames sit by the rabit. This is what I mean by being careful, I will now have to pick a line and fair them all evenly. If this was being planked on both sides I would not worry too much about it. Also to note I am finding that some of the frames do not sit flush on the table and sit tight in the keel notches, so you will need to decide whether to push them up tight to the keel or have them sitting flush on the table.
And just to show how the off ship fairing is looking so far.
I will be back soon with picture of installing the frames.
Hi Don,
Nice to see your progress and the steps you made by the installing of the frames.
And the beautiful finish of your frames.
I had also my questions by the frame installing proces. Glad you will show it further with pictures.
Regards, Peter
Nice to see your progress and the steps you made by the installing of the frames.
And the beautiful finish of your frames.
I had also my questions by the frame installing proces. Glad you will show it further with pictures.
Regards, Peter
Don,
When you have in mind that the top parts of the frames, who fit in the jig, later will be cut of, the advice is you have to concentrate to the fit in the keel and close to the rabbet?
As you shown with your picture in my build-log? (After the bevel-discussion)
And sitting in the jig flush to the table is minor?
O o, edit some later, now I see your line:
“Also to note I am finding that some of the frames do not sit flush on the table and sit tight in the keel notches, .... “
Regards, Peter
When you have in mind that the top parts of the frames, who fit in the jig, later will be cut of, the advice is you have to concentrate to the fit in the keel and close to the rabbet?
As you shown with your picture in my build-log? (After the bevel-discussion)
And sitting in the jig flush to the table is minor?
O o, edit some later, now I see your line:
“Also to note I am finding that some of the frames do not sit flush on the table and sit tight in the keel notches, .... “
Regards, Peter
Last edited:
@Peter Voogt , I don't want to say that this is the right way but it is what I have decided to do. I found in order to get the bottom of the frames close to the rabbit line this is what I needed to do. I am not sure if is my sanding that caused this problem, but on some of the frames it was a big problem. So in doing it this way I am thinking it will be less of a problem for me to rectify. When gluing the frames be extra careful that the notches line up properly and also be sure there is no glue left on the inside. I noticed on some of the Yuanqing pictures the frames do not line up exactly either, maybe a person is worrying about this too much
So here I am sliding the frame up from underneath
and the frame pushed into position with the top notch glued
To glue the bottom to the jig slightly push the frame away from the jig and add a drop of glue
Here is another method, which is a little easier. I have the jig straddled across my table and part of the counter allowing me to insert the frame from the side. Add glue to the notch and push into place.
I find this last method easier, at any rate with either method the jig cannot be sitting flat on any surface you will need to raise it or allow access to the underside to install the frames
So here I am sliding the frame up from underneath
and the frame pushed into position with the top notch glued
To glue the bottom to the jig slightly push the frame away from the jig and add a drop of glue
Here is another method, which is a little easier. I have the jig straddled across my table and part of the counter allowing me to insert the frame from the side. Add glue to the notch and push into place.
I find this last method easier, at any rate with either method the jig cannot be sitting flat on any surface you will need to raise it or allow access to the underside to install the frames
Thanks EJ.
Another quick tip is to sand the tops of the frames enough that they slide through the jig notches easily.
Another quick tip is to sand the tops of the frames enough that they slide through the jig notches easily.
Thanxs Don for your clear answer and the very instructive pictures.
Regards, Peter
Regards, Peter
HI DON AND ALL I AM STILL MAKING FRAMES A LITTLE MORE THEN 1/2 DONE IT IS TAKING ME LONGER BECUSE I AM WAITING EXTRA LONG FOR GLUE TO DRY 4 TO 6 HOURS AND WHEN I GLUE THEM TOGETHER OVER NIGHT, JUST CAREFUL THIS TIME WILL SHOW MY FRAME BOARD METHOD ON MY LOG TONIGHT NOW I HAVE ONE BIG QUESTION DO NOT KNOW IF POSSIBLE BUT CAN THE FRAMES BE INSTALLED LIKE I DID ON THE HALIFAX USING LIKE THE HAHN METHOD WHERE I GLUED ALL THE FRAMES TO THE KEEL FROM THE TOP WITH THE BOTTOMES BEING FLUSH ON THE TABLE PROBALLY NOT NOT SURE JUST ASKING, LOOKING AT HOW DONS FRAMES TURNED OUT AFTER SANDING MAGNIFICENT, I WOULD LIKE TO USE MY VARIABLE SPPED SPINDEL SANDER, BUT I AM JUS TOTALLY AFRAID TO, WILL HAVE TO DO THEM BY HAND,,,OH BOY... I HAVE BEEN LOOKING ALL OVER FOR SANDING STICKS FROM STEVENS INTERNATIONAL 100/100 GRIT THEY ARE FANTASTIC TO USE BUT CAN NOT FIND THEM MY HOBBY SHOP USE TO CARRY THEM BUT NO MORE ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED. GOD BLESS ALL STAY SAFE YOU AND YOURS DON
Sanding sticks...you can make your own of any grit and any length. Just have half-inch plywood, cut to desired width and length. Using the double-sided sticky tape cut out and attach the sandpaper (from top and bottom). A couple of hours and you will have all kinds of sanding sticks ready for action! And if you need to replace sandpaper, just use a new double-sided tape along with fresh sandpaper.
Canoe21
Lawrence
Hello Don, You have answered answered a lot of the questions that I have been thinking of in the instillation of the Bluenose Rib Frames. Your Bluenose sure looks good, Well Done. One question and that is how much glue do you add to your keel and what type?
Regards Lawrence
@donfarr , hey Don I make my own sanding sticks just how @Jimsky has shown, easy to make and saves you lots of money. I even made special ones to sand the notches with. The frames really need to be glued to the keel and jig one at a time as I have done, it would be very difficult to do it any other way.
@Canoe21 , Hello Lawrence, I use pva glue(weldbond) for the notches at the keel and to glue the frames onto the jig I use a drop of CA glue as there is no real good way of clamping.
@Canoe21 , Hello Lawrence, I use pva glue(weldbond) for the notches at the keel and to glue the frames onto the jig I use a drop of CA glue as there is no real good way of clamping.
Last edited:
- Joined
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This is a massive amount of information that you have shared with us Don about all the nitty gritty of installing the frames. It is a slow and careful process like all POF builds are. Your frames look magnificent and super-clean! Well done my friend and thank you so much for this extremely valuable log. 
