BALDER, Vlaardingen Herring Lugger from 1912, scratch build scale 1:50 Plate-On-Frame

[Tobias]

Hello Peter, that looks very clean.
I have to ask again, did I understand correctly that you want to divide the model lengthwise or make it open to get an insight into the interior. Or did I misunderstand something when you wrote about cutting the bulkheads in half?

 

[dockattner]

Hello Peter, that looks very clean.
I have to ask again, did I understand correctly that you want to divide the model lengthwise or make it open to get an insight into the interior. Or did I misunderstand something when you wrote about cutting the bulkheads in half?

Peter, I'm pretty sure Tobias' question might get lost in translation from German to English to Dutch and back again so allow me to rephrase his question: Peter, have you lost your flippin' mind???

 

[Tobias]

Peter, I'm pretty sure Tobias' question might get lost in translation from German to English to Dutch and back again so allow me to rephrase his question: Peter, have you lost your flippin' mind???

Thank you Paul for the simple explanation. Why make it complicated when it can be simple.

 

[RDN1954]

Peter, have you lost your flippin' mind???

Paul, since you also followed Peter's blog of his Bluenose build, I guess this is a rhetorical question?

 

[Peter Voogt]

Hi Peter,

Can you mirror the vertical L profile to both ships sides and split the frame between them. Offcourse this is a little concession to the original but you will avoid the wobbly frames. If you split the hull you won t notice it that much and if you combine two halves you don t see it.

Thanks for this option, Maarten. This small deviation from the original is a good solution.
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

Already shared the idea with you on WhatsApp, but upon request: you could consider to have both stem and stern being an integral part of one half of the model. Say from the fwd watertight bulkhead to the bow and from the aft watertight bulkhead to the transom. It might give you a little more rigidity and less vulnerability of stem- and stern parts.
The opposite half of the hull would then slide into place in between those two "extensions".
Drawback: your intended assembly method needs to be revised...

Thanks for this interesting option, Johan. Indeed a revisiting of the plans. But always a but .........
With this option I must place the bow and stern must be placed at the end. Otherwise I can tilt the hull parts to build the side completely flat.
And a flat adjustment on both side by the 2 bulkhead.
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

Good morning Peter. Wow! Just wow. This is going to be legendary. Cheers Grant

Thanks, Grant. Wishful thinking after building 1 bulkhead to become a legendary build ......... I'll do my best!
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

Stai ottenendo dei risultati eccezionali. Dei pezzi perfetti.

You are getting great results. Perfect pieces.

Thanks, Alessandro.
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

Hello Peter, that looks very clean.
I have to ask again, did I understand correctly that you want to divide the model lengthwise or make it open to get an insight into the interior. Or did I misunderstand something when you wrote about cutting the bulkheads in half?

Peter, I'm pretty sure Tobias' question might get lost in translation from German to English to Dutch and back again so allow me to rephrase his question: Peter, have you lost your flippin' mind???

Thank you Paul for the simple explanation. Why make it complicated when it can be simple.

Thanks, Tobias and Paul.
No, the idea is still to build the model in a port and a starboard part. To get a view on the inside of the interior of the port side. The starboard side will give you a clean view on the internal structure.
But fortunately no 'split personality' yet.
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

Paul, since you also followed Peter's blog of his Bluenose build, I guess this is a rhetorical question?

Haha, but no Japanese Saw this time. Only surgical scalpels.
Regards, Peter

 

[RDN1954]

Thanks for this interesting option, Johan. Indeed a revisiting of the plans. But always a but .........
With this option I must place the bow and stern must be placed at the end. Otherwise I can tilt the hull parts to build the side completely flat.
And a flat adjustment on both side by the 2 bulkhead.
Regards, Peter

Depending on your build accuracy (and yours' is quite acceptable...) you could make it a modular build. (Basically it is what you're doing right now, so it's nothing out of the ordinary .)
You could build both hull halves like you suggested, minus stem and stern and, at the appropriate moment, add the two seperately build stem- and stern modules to the port side of your model.

 

[Peter Voogt]

I am pleasantly surprised by all this thinking and making suggestions for the construction of my model. My sincere thanks for that.

However, I have only shown you a few fragments of the old drawings as well as the 54 frames that I drew.
While I have already spent many hours studying the drawings to get an idea of the internal construction. To get an idea of what I have to take into account.
So let's first take a look at 2 cutouts from the old 'Construction drawing' of the A. de Jong shipyard. I have tried to clarify this with yellow accents.
I give both a higher resolution, so perhaps gives clicking on the pictures a bigger opening of both pictures.

First the cross-section seen from the side:

(Source: Digital kopie by the SZB of the old drawing from Shipyard A. de Jong)
On the bottom you see the position of the 54 frames.
A: An L-profile of 75x75x8 along the outside of the deck
B: The keelson positioned above the keel plate, consisting of a 'Bulb plate' (with round bar on top) 220x14, with 2 L-profile 100x75x8, on either side one with the shoulder against the bulb plate.
In my model, the finished port side gets the Bulb plate and 1 L-profile. The open starboard side the other L-profile.
I also accentuated the 3 watertight bulkheads.

Then the top view drawing:

(Source: Digital kopie by the SZB of the old drawing from Shipyard A. de Jong)
A: The L-profile on the outside of the deck, 75x75x8
With a 2nd profile, facing the L-profile on the outside, 65x65x8.
The space between those 2 profiles is filled with cement. As a closed waterway.
A1: 2 L-profiles with the shoulders to each other in the middle of the deck.
C: The deck beams, 130x75x9.5. Not every frame has a deck beam.
The deck is reinforced lengthwise over the deck beams with:
D: a gusset plate at the front and back with Stringer plates in between along the entire side.
E: length plates, especially on both sides of the hatches.
F: plates in the middle to strengthen the mizzen mast, steam spindle and the tube at the foremast, because this can be lowered while fishing.

So, a lot of details for my construction plan in my head.
To start with the bulkhead 51 in one piece and the frames 52,53 and 54 not cute in half is pure for me to get a better view of the lines of the hull. To build in some security for my peace of mind.
Then I cut them in halves and start the with the final construction of both halves.
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

Time to post again. Over the past week I've been thinking and puzzling a lot about how to build. Because theory and practice do not yet go together.

I think my intended method for installing the frames will not work:

I intended to place the half frame templates B on the construction template A, which I obtain when I have cut out the shape of the frame in question.
Here I placed 51 and 53. 52 and 54 still have to be added here in-between. On average, a frame of 1.5 mm every 9 mm.
(Depending on the amount of shaving light, the small rivets show quite nicely.)

To align the frame jigs I also wanted to use a template that has the shape of the deck:

On which I drew the frames.
The construction templates are placed so close together that I have virtually no space left to properly align the frames to be installed and to provide them with the necessary longitudinal profiles.
And I need to start connecting all the frame templates together to take up all the slack.

I thought about it for a while again and now I'm going to do it without the frame templates, as a 2nd test.
Therefore, first made frame 53:

A: deck beam
B: knee
C: frame
D: retaining frame (keerspant)* that carries the floor plate in the forepeak (forgotten the rivets at the bottom......)
E: vrang/wrang - flange or deep floor? I don't know the exact English name of those plates.
All connections provided with rivets.

*A small addition to the retaining frame that is partly attached to the frame.
The old specifications state:
"Retaining frames on each frame, every other frame up to deck or top of bilge".
Yesterday I went to see the Balder in Vlaardingen again. And partly based on photos during the restoration, it appears:
-frames with a deck beam, the retaining frame extends to the bilge.
-frames without a deck beam, the retaining frame extends to the deck. There it has a small knee and the top of that knee is attached to the stringer with a small piece of profile, a 'little man'.
And on the Balder it became visible that the frames and retaining frames are stacked together in such a way that they form a perpendicular Z.
-In the front part of the ship, the upper part of the deck L-profile points forward. These point backwards from the watertight bulkhead 39.
These are small details, but they do determine the direction of the frames and the retaining frames.
In the frame 51 in the photo above you can see that behind the downward-facing part of the deck beam is the knee and behind the knee is the frame. The retaining frame is then again on the side of the deck beam.
This is also a confirmation of how I had read the old drawings. The invisible profile parts are drawn with a dotted line.

Back to my 2nd test for installing the frames.
To keep the half frames in position I will connect them to the stringers on the outside:

A: L-profile on the outside of the deck
B: L-profile that faces inwards and against which the wood of the deck rests
C: the pieces of profile (little man) between which the bulwark plates will later be placed.

I will now install these 2 frames with the stringer on the outside and a few other pieces of profile as a mutual connection between the frames. Then the frames 52 and 54.
This will also be a test to see whether I still have enough space to spray paint all parts in color per compartment.
Please be patient, but I will try to take some pictures of all the steps in between.
Regards, Peter

 

[Jimsky]

I'm unsure if you ever considered this, but it just came to mind, working on longitudinal hull. Something similar to the half model. You already building the frames in half.

 

[Peter Voogt]

I'm unsure if you ever considered this, but it just came to mind, working on longitudinal hull. Something similar to the half model. You already building the frames in half.

View attachment 406103

Thanks for sharing, Jim. But it’s a bit of a static view. I will make mine more ‘dynamic’: both halves separate but also together. With or without the jig.
Uuhhhh, that’s the plan ……..
Regards, Peter

 

[Jimsky]

Thanks for sharing, Jim. But it’s a bit of a static view. I will make mine more ‘dynamic’: both halves separate but also together. With or without the jig.
Uuhhhh, that’s the plan ……..
Regards, Peter

Yea...I understand your goal and desire!! I thought of making two halves separately. This way it will be easier to lay down the frames.

 

[Peter Voogt]

Yea...I understand your goal and desire!! I thought of making two halves separately. This way it will be easier to lay down the frames.

That was already the plan:
—> Post #155 page 8 <—
I made the frames first completely, to get a right alignment and then cut them in halves to build them on the halve jigs.
Regards, Peter

 

[RDN1954]

Back to my 2nd test for installing the frames.
To keep the half frames in position I will connect them to the stringers on the outside:
View attachment 406097
A: L-profile on the outside of the deck
B: L-profile that faces inwards and against which the wood of the deck rests
C: the pieces of profile (little man) between which the bulwark plates will later be placed.

I will now install these 2 frames with the stringer on the outside and a few other pieces of profile as a mutual connection between the frames. Then the frames 52 and 54.
This will also be a test to see whether I still have enough space to spray paint all parts in color per compartment.
Please be patient, but I will try to take some pictures of all the steps in between.
Regards, Peter

Instead of using the full construction templates, might it be possible to pick up your frames at a number of discrete points? You already would have three points, being 1) the keel, 2) and 3) the deck longeron at the outside. For stability reasons you could add points 4) and 5), somewhere in between 1) and 2)/3). it might look somewhat similar to the YQ Bluenose jig. You could also consider extending the OBD frame angles, picking them up in a higher positioned jig part with frame notches to pick up said angles. might give you some room to manouever...

 

[Peter Voogt]

Instead of using the full construction templates, might it be possible to pick up your frames at a number of discrete points? You already would have three points, being 1) the keel, 2) and 3) the deck longeron at the outside. For stability reasons you could add points 4) and 5), somewhere in between 1) and 2)/3). it might look somewhat similar to the YQ Bluenose jig. You could also consider extending the OBD frame angles, picking them up in a higher positioned jig part with frame notches to pick up said angles. might give you some room to manouever...

If I'm interpreting this correctly...that's pretty much what I'm planning to do.
It's just a bit complex to describe.
That's why I'll show the steps later.
Perhaps it’s was better to combine my latest post with the upcoming steps, but then it becomes a very long post.
Regards, Peter

 

[Peter Voogt]

Frame 51 glued to the keel:

And the 1st intermediate beam of 16 mm that serves as a side support for the hatch to the forepeak:


The beam and frame 53 placed:

With the 2nd beam that goes under the deck between frame 53 and the keel.
Unfortunately, not everything is sharp with the iPhone.

Frame 51 and 53:

With the 2 bars. The stinger will rest on it at the front.

The moment of truth:
The port side construction jig placed upright:

On the left the watertight bulkhead 39 that I had made as a test. I can align the stinger with that later.
To be on the safe side, 51 and 53 will soon receive a brace.

From the other side:

Once frames 52 and 54 are in place, I can check the alignment on the outside with strips of paper.
Simultaneously also make the floor from 51 forward over 52, 53 and 54 to the keel.
Regards, Peter