BALDER, Vlaardingen Herring Lugger from 1912, scratch build scale 1:50 Plate-On-Frame

Peter Voogt said:
Sometimes you think, I'm well on my way. Just throw away an apparently empty point and then.........gggggrrrrr. :confused: Fortunately, Ctrl-Z (step back) also works here. :)
Once you have drawn a few frames, you can use the 'loft function' to pull some kind of sheet material over those frames. Then you can also see whether the shape runs smoothly.
It then turns out that those old drawings, as mentioned earlier, contain imperfections. Made the lines of the frames smoother by hand and then again.
Here is an example of the frames 47 to 54:
View attachment 399805
I still have to make the connection to the bow.
The corner points of the lines of the frames should connect to the drawing points on the lines of the keel and deck. It was also quite a puzzle to get that done, because you always have to consider in which of the 3 drawing areas you are working. The deck still must have the deck curves, but that will come later.
But it's still fun, especially now that the results are out.
Regards, Peter
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One just got to love those point clouds.
It's difficult to grasp, but there's quite a bit of work involved, plus a deep understanding on how these 3D tools function.
 
Heinrich said:
I'm screwed! ROTF Seriously though @Peter Voogt Peter, it is fascinating to watch (even though I do not understand much) and I have no doubt that you will be successful.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your trust, Heinrich. :) I am gaining more and more confidence in the possible final result. I am almost ready to do some comparison tests between a frame export from Fushion with a custom printed old drawing of frames. Then I will know whether all the time invested has not been in vain.
Regards, Peter
 
Maarten said:
Hi Peter,

Any idea how much time you spend in the drawing sofar? And was Fusion 360 the right choice?
Just interested in this for my own choices in the future.
Click to expand...
Hi Maarten. How many hours till now …… phoe ……. 30? Now I know the basics and what is needed for what I want as a outcome, I needed less hours.
I haven’t try other 3D programs, so I can’t tell if this is THE right one or which is better. For my purposes, making the 54 frames, it does.
PS: If you choose Fushion, I can now give some practice of the basics.
Regards, Peter
 
Time to experimentally see whether the drawn shapes correspond to the old drawings.
First I made full frames from the half frames 51 and 52 in Fushion. A matter of selecting and mirroring around the correct axis:
0068 Spant-51.jpg
I chose 51 and 52 because the watertight bulkhead 51 is also drawn in detail on the old drawings. While comparing, I saw that it is between the Fusion frames 51 and 52.
The comparison can be made in 2 ways:
0069 Spant-51 en 52.jpg
Left: the cut-out drawn frame 51, pasted on the screen and in Fushion frames 51 and 52 zoomed in so far that the dimensions matched.
Right: Pasted an export from Fushion into Photoshop and overlaid it on the old drawing file. Then it's a matter of making a layer transparent. I used some gray areas to express the contours of the Fushion frames 51 and 52.
Conclusion: the old drawn bulkhead 51 is in between Fushion 51 and 52 in terms of shape. So there is some discrepancy between the 111-year-old drawings of the bulkheads and the lines plan.
But the drawings also indicate that these are 'general specifications' that can be adjusted per client. No idea if any drawings have been adjusted in the meantime.
It won't be a problem for my build, as long as I use all the frames drawn in Fushion. These are all aligned around the keel and deck line.

PS: In my previous post I mentioned that I sometimes gave the frame line a nice smooth course by hand. How do I check that?
Just good old fashioned with a piece of Evergreen 4x4 rod.
0070 Vloeiend.jpg
Place a drawn frame as large as possible on my screen. If I can bend the Evergreen rod by hand into a corresponding curvature via the ends, then that is smooth. For this frame 49, the point indicated by the blue arrow must be moved slightly inwards. In the meantime I also set the frames 48 and 50 on view, so that I can assess the progression between several frames.
The ends are also not completely connected. In the first instance yes, but it took a while before my admiral had taken the photo. Meanwhile, my screen tilted more and more. ;)

Here is a satisfied person who is happy with the time invested and can now continue. :) It still remains a test to see whether I can actually put half the frames on the divided keel. We will see ......
Regards, Peter
 
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Perhaps it would be nice to show that the 'Loft function' does its job. And that I am on the right track with smoothing the frames:
0071 Loft.jpg
Left with a smooth, even gradient
In the middle I pulled out a drawing point of the middle frame.
I pushed that point straight in.
PS: the model is a bit tilted to the left/port side. The loft shows the right/starboard half of the hull.
Regards, Peter
 
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Peter Voogt said:
Perhaps it would be nice to show that the 'Loft function' does its job. And that I am on the right track with smoothing the frames:
View attachment 399937
Left with a smooth, even gradient
In the middle I pulled out a drawing point of the middle frame.
I pushed that point straight in.
Regards, Peter
Click to expand...
Ciao Peter.
Finora ho capito che devo seguirti con attenzione, perchè penso che imparerò qualcosa.
Il comando loft c'è anche in Rhinoceros ma non ho capito la sua funzione e non l'ho mai usato.
Intanto ti faccio i miei complimenti, bravo davvero.

Hello Peter.
So far I understand that I have to follow you carefully, because I think I will learn something.
The loft command is also available in Rhinoceros but I don't understand its function and I've never used it.
In the meantime I congratulate you, really well done.
 
AlessandroROMA said:
Ciao Peter.
Finora ho capito che devo seguirti con attenzione, perchè penso che imparerò qualcosa.
Il comando loft c'è anche in Rhinoceros ma non ho capito la sua funzione e non l'ho mai usato.
Intanto ti faccio i miei complimenti, bravo davvero.

Hello Peter.
So far I understand that I have to follow you carefully, because I think I will learn something.
The loft command is also available in Rhinoceros but I don't understand its function and I've never used it.
In the meantime I congratulate you, really well done.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the compliments, Alessandro. About the loft: when the function is activated you click the first part of where you will start to create the loft. Then the next parts. I started with the frame that is on the left side of the ‘lofted part’, that’s my frame 44. Then I clicked 45, 46 etc till 54. Not till the points or line at the bow, because ‘something’ is not right there to complete the loft. I need to make some adjustment on that part. (Perhaps lesson 34-3a from my self-education study ……. ;))
And I see the lines of frame 53. Also a indication for ‘something not completed’.
Regards, Peter
 
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Grazie mille Peter.
Dove sono le tue lezioni? Mi dai il link, per favore?

Thanks so much Peter.

Where are your classes? Can you give me the link, please?
 
AlessandroROMA said:
Grazie mille Peter.
Dove sono le tue lezioni? Mi dai il link, per favore?

Thanks so much Peter.

Where are your classes? Can you give me the link, please?
Click to expand...
I only typed in my browser “Fushion”+ship+lineplan”.
Then look, try, look, try, select another video, look, try, delete, try again, look, try, a bit of ‘eureka’, sometimes a aaaarrrccccggggg @#$%^&*, ctr-Z, ……… etc.
 
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GrantTyler said:
Good morning Peter. I played some catch up here and mostly got lost in the maze of 3D Fushion CAD…..this a build years ahead of my level and I will follow with interest. Cheers Grant
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Thanks, Grant.
I started drawing at the end of August and had no idea if the shape of the frames would come out. Those 1.5 months also seem like years to me.;)
If I had posted all the mistakes, the build log would already be at page 15......
It's nice that others find it interesting too.
Regards, Peter
 
The test frame on site. I use the watertight bulkhead 39 that I had already made for this. For the test I cut it in half and do that with all the frames.
0072 Test.jpg
In this case, to place the two half frames at right angles, I first tilted the port side of the jig. I glued right-angled corner pieces at the front and back. Then I always build vertically perpendicular to the waterline.
The floor of the jig is 8 cm wide. I had already shown that I had glued the frame on a paper template on a piece of polystyrene sheet. That piece is 16 cm wide. The height depends on the height of the frame to be built.
Here I glued half the mold to the floor and glued the piece of frame in the bottom corner to the (half) keel beam with a dab of glue. And fixed to the mold with 4 pieces of tape.
Then the jig was put upright again.

The next step is not entirely in accordance with the method I am going to use. Because all half frames are first placed in place from the half molds in a tilted position.

Now I first placed the 2nd half frame upright against it:
0073 Test.jpg
The bottom point with a tip of glue on the other half keel beam. You can’t see the piece of tape on the top of the other side.
Secured with 3 temporary braces and then also tilted the starboard jig:
0074 Test.jpg
Now I was able to align this half properly with the help of some guide lines on the floor plate.

Once dry it was able to stand up again:
0075 Test.jpg
This is what it looks like with both parts separated.

Soon things will be a little different. Because then I always build a few open frames in a tilted position and they get their longitudinal connection profiles that are completely fixed between 2 watertight bulkheads. It will be a sturdy whole of composite frames. I think I will provide a brace for each group of 3 or 4 frames. I am already thinking about extendable struts that I will make with Evergeen or brass tubes and rods. This makes it easy to place it against the fames at the correct lenght.
The final model, just like my Bluenose, will stand on struts from which it can also be removed.
In short, there are still plenty of challenges.
Regards, Peter
 
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Back to de drawing. After a lot of hours I have drawn the frames 54 to 27. The loft function showed a lot of imperfections on the old line plan drawing. After a lot of adjustments on most of the frames in de direction of the main frame 31 this is how it looks now with to draw point in view:
0076 27-54.jpg
The hull shows a nice flow.

And with to points and lines out and a bit of color:
0077 27-54.jpg
The loft function still shows the position of the frames. When you 'hover' over the position of the individual frames each one is then highlighted. And you can choose the one you want to adjust.
On the the aft part of the hull.
Regards, Peter
 
Peter Voogt said:
The test frame on site. I use the watertight bulkhead 39 that I had already made for this. For the test I cut it in half and do that with all the frames.
View attachment 400187
In this case, to place the two half frames at right angles, I first tilted the port side of the jig. I glued right-angled corner pieces at the front and back. Then I always build vertically perpendicular to the waterline.
The floor of the jig is 8 cm wide. I had already shown that I had glued the frame on a paper template on a piece of polystyrene sheet. That piece is 16 cm wide. The height depends on the height of the frame to be built.
Here I glued half the mold to the floor and glued the piece of frame in the bottom corner to the (half) keel beam with a dab of glue. And fixed to the mold with 4 pieces of tape.
Then the jig was put upright again.

The next step is not entirely in accordance with the method I am going to use. Because all half frames are first placed in place from the half molds in a tilted position.

Now I first placed the 2nd half frame upright against it:
View attachment 400188
The bottom point with a tip of glue on the other half keel beam. You can’t see the piece of tape on the top of the other side.
Secured with 3 temporary braces and then also tilted the starboard jig:
View attachment 400189
Now I was able to align this half properly with the help of some guide lines on the floor plate.

Once dry it was able to stand up again:
View attachment 400190
This is what it looks like with both parts separated.

Soon things will be a little different. Because then I always build a few open frames in a tilted position and they get their longitudinal connection profiles that are completely fixed between 2 watertight bulkheads. It will be a sturdy whole of composite frames. I think I will provide a brace for each group of 3 or 4 frames. I am already thinking about extendable struts that I will make with Evergeen or brass tubes and rods. This makes it easy to place it against the fames at the correct lenght.
The final model, just like my Bluenose, will stand on struts from which it can also be removed.
In short, there are still plenty of challenges.
Regards, Peter
Click to expand...
As we've come to expect, beautiful modeling, plus an illustrative explanation of what you're doing.
The point I'm missing though is why you build half by half, is that prototyping only, or is this how you will be building the hull?
 
Peter Voogt said:
Back to de drawing. After a lot of hours I have drawn the frames 54 to 27. The loft function showed a lot of imperfections on the old line plan drawing. After a lot of adjustments on most of the frames in de direction of the main frame 31 this is how it looks now with to draw point in view:
View attachment 400775
The hull shows a nice flow.

And with to points and lines out and a bit of color:
View attachment 400777
The loft function still shows the position of the frames. When you 'hover' over the position of the individual frames each one is then highlighted. And you can choose the one you want to adjust.
On the the aft part of the hull.
Regards, Peter
Click to expand...
That last observation is a creepy one; the highlighting of almost all frames is indicative of a deviation of sorts.
Does Fusion have a function to analyse surfaces, like curvature tangency, curvature radii and curvature angles? Or a function to graphically show the quality of your surface, using colors? Did you use the same number of points on every frame position and are all points located on a frame datum?
It might be an imaginative issue, since you are using your frames to define your skin. When the frames are within acceptable tolerance, you might be able to easily install the skins, but that's only true when the transition between the frames is smooth, without bumps and dents.
 
RDN1954 said:
As we've come to expect, beautiful modeling, plus an illustrative explanation of what you're doing.
The point I'm missing though is why you build half by half, is that prototyping only, or is this how you will be building the hull?
Click to expand...
Hi Johan. I am building the model half by half. Because the frames of 1,5mm have to be cut in half on the (bleu) cutting mat. Ones installed it is not possible to cut them with to much damage.
To get the middle surface from keel to mid-deck flat, I have to turn the jig a quarter. Then the midline is lying flat on the base.
At the end with the two half constructed in the quarter tilted position, they will hopefully fit nicely together.
I will not build half by half completely but frame by frame to constant checking the alignmen.
Regards, Peter
 
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Ciao Joahn e ciao Peter.
Bravissimo Peter; Anch'io sono curioso di sapere il motivo di questa procedura. Mi ricollego alla domanda di Johan.
Io, ad esempio, ho dovuto creare più parti differenti della superficie dello scafo e poi unirle, perchè non riuscivo (nonostante nuemrosi tenativi a creare un'unica superficie dello scafo ni un'unica soluzione).
A questo punto mi sorge un altro quesito: Il tuo è già un volume o una superficie?

Well done Peter; I too am curious to know the reason for this procedure
I go back to Johan's question.For example, I had to create several different parts of the hull surface and then join them, because I couldn't (despite numerous attempts to create a single hull surface or a single solution).At this point another question arises: Is yours already a volume or a surface?
 
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