Outstanding and Excellent as usual Uwe !!!
HMS GRANADO - full hull - POF kit by CAF in 1:48 - by Uwe
The tiller is stored and safe ..... after I made the final photos of the rudder
after the final installation I was able to drill the small holes and installed the bolts
the holes in the gudgeons are big enough, that I am able to assemble and disassemble the rudder
Only some blackening of the bolts and the project in the project is completed ....... wish you all a nice weekend ...... to be continued
after the final installation I was able to drill the small holes and installed the bolts
the holes in the gudgeons are big enough, that I am able to assemble and disassemble the rudder
Only some blackening of the bolts and the project in the project is completed ....... wish you all a nice weekend ...... to be continued
Uwe,
I had to catch from several weeks, but this is such beautiful and greatlooking work you are showing us, WOW
I had to catch from several weeks, but this is such beautiful and greatlooking work you are showing us, WOW
The small house of the rudder tiller was also done
it would look like this (somehow) - but for the final assembly the tiller will be at the rudder, so at the lower half of the model
The next work will be the ensign staff ......
it would look like this (somehow) - but for the final assembly the tiller will be at the rudder, so at the lower half of the model
The next work will be the ensign staff ......
I have read that there were racks or stanchions or guides (I forget the terminology) that helped to hold the coiled anchor ropes in place, or as a guide to coiling them. But I've never seen anything as to what these actually were. Do you have any information on this? Looking further, this might be called the cable TIER, but I don't know if that just means the rope itself or some sort of support or guide.Imagine, that there were 6 cables on board, each with a length of 219 meter - So the small Granado carried 1,3 km cable (in the model it would be 27 meter rope) length with her. More or less all of this was stowed in the hold between the two mortar beds - this area is a little bit longer than 10 meter
And somewhere they had to store also other things like beer and water etc. => on such ships they had not much space
BTW, the hold area between the two mortar beds is only about 15.5 feet or 4.7 meters long, not 10+ meters.
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Hallo,
I did not read something like this until now.
I can not imagine, that 200 meter of relatively heavy anchor cable can be coiled
On the HMS Victory you have coils, but for much smaller ropes and cables
but for the much heavier and also longer anchor cables I can not imagine how such a coil could work ( somehow it can be calculated how high or which diameter such a coil would have with 219 meter cable)
On the HMS Victory the cable was (is) laying in the cable locker - we can find several photos of this in the web
with some cables
with some more cables (and ropes)
and with some very interesting information - here it is written "coiled", but in reality the cable is laying there in rings on the deck
On the Victory there was / is and extra deck as a cable locker with floor and sidewalls - on the Granado I have no other information than in the area between the two mortar beds and maybe partly in the free space between the mortar beds and the hull
200 meter long cable is in 1:48 -> 4,2 meter of rope material - for only one cable
BTW: I was wrong with my first calculation - in total the 6 cables are 1,3 km which are in 1:48 appr. 27 meter of rope / cable in the model
Witaj
Ster i domek sternika wyglądają bardzo ładnie. Pozdrawiam Mirek
Hello
The rudder and the helmsman's house look very nice. Best regards, Mirek
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Perhaps "coiled" is not the right word. I forget where I got this from, but this is what I imagine as coiled, and also should be fairly applicable to the hold on the Granada (at least that is what I am planning):
Deleted. Not really the right place for it.
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One of the next work is the flag post / ensign staff which is mounted on top of the tiller-house
In the contemporary drawings nothing is shown (off course)
but we have the painting of John Cleveley showing the Grenado
and looking at the NMM model
So the post is relatively long
but looking at Goodwins anatomy book sketch G12/2 and G12/3 with scale 1:48
it is shown only with a total length of 8,5cm equal to only 4meter length -> this can not be => it seems that Goodwin mixed up the scales and in reality it is scale 1:96, which he is sometimes also using
Therefore I made my staff appr. 16cm long
the staff cap alone on top of the tiller house
and together with the flag staff - only dry fitted - at the end I will keep the staff removable for transport of the model when it is all finished
I think I am correct with the length, but maybe somebody can give some additional information
Many Thanks for your interest .....
In the contemporary drawings nothing is shown (off course)
but we have the painting of John Cleveley showing the Grenado
and looking at the NMM model
So the post is relatively long
but looking at Goodwins anatomy book sketch G12/2 and G12/3 with scale 1:48
it is shown only with a total length of 8,5cm equal to only 4meter length -> this can not be => it seems that Goodwin mixed up the scales and in reality it is scale 1:96, which he is sometimes also using
Therefore I made my staff appr. 16cm long
the staff cap alone on top of the tiller house
and together with the flag staff - only dry fitted - at the end I will keep the staff removable for transport of the model when it is all finished
I think I am correct with the length, but maybe somebody can give some additional information
Many Thanks for your interest .....
Great progress again Uwe. Looking forward to see both halves being displayed together.
A dose of 'distrust' never goes amiss. Now you have a nice proportional flag staff. It gives her some elegance.One of the next work is the flag post / ensign staff which is mounted on top of the tiller-house
In the contemporary drawings nothing is shown (off course)
but we have the painting of John Cleveley showing the Grenado
View attachment 471906
and looking at the NMM model
View attachment 471907
View attachment 471908
So the post is relatively long
but looking at Goodwins anatomy book sketch G12/2 and G12/3 with scale 1:48
View attachment 471913
View attachment 471914
it is shown only with a total length of 8,5cm equal to only 4meter length -> this can not be => it seems that Goodwin mixed up the scales and in reality it is scale 1:96, which he is sometimes also using
Therefore I made my staff appr. 16cm long
View attachment 471912
the staff cap alone on top of the tiller house
View attachment 471915
and together with the flag staff - only dry fitted - at the end I will keep the staff removable for transport of the model when it is all finished
View attachment 471916
I think I am correct with the length, but maybe somebody can give some additional information
View attachment 471917
Many Thanks for your interest .....
Regards, Peter
Beautiful execution! Your research and follow up attention to detail should be an inspiration to everyone here including both scratchers and kit builders. Your use of multiple sources of information to make sure things are right rather than relying on a single source is so nice to see.
Allan
Allan
Top notch work. Excellent attention to detail.
I just happen to be making the ensign staff too for the Discovery1789. Lees says the ensign staff is one third the length of the main mast measured from the top of the taffrail and the diameter is 1/2" for every 3' of it's length.
Somewhere else I read it should be 2/3 of the beam.
Somewhere else I read it should be 2/3 of the beam.
That may be the case, or it may not be that simple. I photographed Goodwin's drawing alongside Part 3 of CAF's drawings:
I then copied Goodwin's Ensign Staff over the CAF drawing in its actual (supposed 1/48 scale, like the CAF drawing), shown in BLUE below:
This BLUE one is obviously too small. So I assumed as you did that it was in 1/96 scale, and doubled its size, showing it above in RED. Well, that really looks too big. I then made the GREEN "Goldilocks" version, and scaled it at 1/72 scale. It closely matches the CAF drawing.
That doesn't mean the CAF drawing and staff size is correct; I'd always assumed they'd shortened it some so when encased it wouldn't force the height of the case to be so large. But it LOOKS better (the green one), and the Stiffener and Mast Cap match much better.
The other good resource we have is the NMM model. So I took (roughly) the outline of the NMM model and scaled it to match the CAF drawing and superimposed it, and got this:
The overall height of the NMM model matches closely the 1/48 scale (RED) mast shown above, but the lower structure, Stiffener and Mast Cap match the 1/72 (GREEN) mast much better.
I think that CAF's structure is modeled accurately (lower structure, stiffener and mast cap in particular), although the total mast length has been shortened somewhat, but think that modification is reasonable for this Admiralty style model, so I will probably model it as CAF shows, but perhaps increase the inclination angle to be more accurate and match the stern lines.
While we're on the subject of the Ensign staff, what flag/Ensign do you intend to use? I've seen the CAF model shown here by Igor Tula and the JoKita model by rawen using the "Red Ensign":
but it is my understanding that Red Ensign or Civil Ensign was used by the British Merchant Navy. I would have thought that this obviously not-merchant and obviously military ship would use the "White Ensign" or Naval Ensign was used by the British Royal Navy. For the time period of this ship the flag would (should?) look like this:
Anyhow, that's the way I've been thinking concerning the ensign staff and the ensign itself. Please feel free to correct me, of course.
References:
British ensign - Wikipedia
White Ensign - Wikipedia
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I just had a thought on this. While the Granado was certainly a military vessel, not a merchant one, we also see the Granado's name conspicuous in the absence of "HMS" in front of it. That is, we don't seem to see "HMS Granado". Although at least one source described it as "HMBV Granado" For His Majesty's Bomb Vessel. But perhaps it would use the merchant ensign if it is not "HMS"? Seems wrong to me, but possible.
I am not a specialist in these ensigns - and reading fast over the different information
The British Red Ensign (1707–1800)
The British Red Ensign as used in British America (including the Thirteen Colonies)
Upon the legislative union of England and Scotland in 1707, the tiny Royal Scots Navy came to an end as a separate force, and the "Union" colours (invented on the union of the two crowns a hundred years before) were inserted in all ensigns, naval and mercantile. An Order in Council of 21 July 1707 established as naval flags of the royal standard the Union flag and "the ensign directed by her Majesty since the said Union of the two Kingdoms", which from the coloured drafts attached to the order is seen to be the red ensign. The white and blue ensigns are not mentioned in this Order; evidently the red ensign was alone regarded as the legal ensign of Great Britain and the others as merely variations of it for tactical purposes.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ensign#cite_note-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>
In 1707, Acts of Union, ratifying the Treaty of Union, which had been agreed the previous year, were passed by the parliaments of England and Scotland, thereby uniting the Kingdom of Scotland with the Kingdom of England (which included the Principality of Wales) into a new state with the name "Kingdom of Great Britain". This resulted in a new red ensign which placed the first Union Flag, including a saltire in the first quarter. The new design of the Red Ensign was proclaimed by Queen Anne (1665–1714, reigned 1702–1714), who indicated that it was to be used by both the navy and ships owned by "our loving subjects".
en.wikipedia.org
Flag of the Red Squadron 1707–1800
The senior (red) squadron was usually placed in the centre of the line of battle, and always led by the commander-in-chief of the fleet, initially the Admiral of England, later called Lord Admiral until the creation of the rank of Admiral of the Fleet in 1688. During this period his van division was led by the Vice Admiral England (Red) and his rear division by the Rear Admiral of England (Red). From 1688 the Admiral of the Fleet's van division was led by the Vice Admiral of the Red and his rear division by the Rear Admiral of the Red. In 1805 the rank of Admiral of Red was created; the van and rear commands remained the same
en.wikipedia.org
Great Britain (1707–1800)
.svg)
The British Red Ensign (1707–1800).svg)
The British Red Ensign as used in British America (including the Thirteen Colonies)Upon the legislative union of England and Scotland in 1707, the tiny Royal Scots Navy came to an end as a separate force, and the "Union" colours (invented on the union of the two crowns a hundred years before) were inserted in all ensigns, naval and mercantile. An Order in Council of 21 July 1707 established as naval flags of the royal standard the Union flag and "the ensign directed by her Majesty since the said Union of the two Kingdoms", which from the coloured drafts attached to the order is seen to be the red ensign. The white and blue ensigns are not mentioned in this Order; evidently the red ensign was alone regarded as the legal ensign of Great Britain and the others as merely variations of it for tactical purposes.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ensign#cite_note-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>
In 1707, Acts of Union, ratifying the Treaty of Union, which had been agreed the previous year, were passed by the parliaments of England and Scotland, thereby uniting the Kingdom of Scotland with the Kingdom of England (which included the Principality of Wales) into a new state with the name "Kingdom of Great Britain". This resulted in a new red ensign which placed the first Union Flag, including a saltire in the first quarter. The new design of the Red Ensign was proclaimed by Queen Anne (1665–1714, reigned 1702–1714), who indicated that it was to be used by both the navy and ships owned by "our loving subjects".
Red Ensign - Wikipedia
Flag of the Red Squadron 1707–1800
The senior (red) squadron was usually placed in the centre of the line of battle, and always led by the commander-in-chief of the fleet, initially the Admiral of England, later called Lord Admiral until the creation of the rank of Admiral of the Fleet in 1688. During this period his van division was led by the Vice Admiral England (Red) and his rear division by the Rear Admiral of England (Red). From 1688 the Admiral of the Fleet's van division was led by the Vice Admiral of the Red and his rear division by the Rear Admiral of the Red. In 1805 the rank of Admiral of Red was created; the van and rear commands remained the same
Coloured squadrons of the Royal Navy - Wikipedia
Uwe, I have to agree with Allan’s post. Your work is indeed beautifully executed, informative and with great attention to fine detail.