HMS Victory Mantua 1:78 (first build) by Grant Tyler

Great build, nice to see! Congratulations.

Some remarks for the hammocks: I made my ones out of plastelin. The same stuff that Doris always uses for her wonderful sculptures.

Also a hint for the stun´ sails: There were no stun´ sails on the main course as these sails were not issued any more at the times of Trafalgar. As far as I know the stun´ sail booms on the main channels are actually the ones of the fore course, just stowed there as for the anchors :)

XXXDAn
Good morning. Thank you. That is so interesting. I never stop learning while building this model. It certainly makes sense as with the anchors on the the fore channel there is no space for a second pair of booms. Cheers Grant
 
Good morning- Thank you Paul, Peter, Jeff for your encouragement and comments and all who like and stop by to have a look see at “Grants Victory “. Also Vladimir, Uwek and “Dafi” and previously Jim and Thomas for the guidance. I will give these little hammocks another go. If I can get them looking reasonable I will leave as is. Cheers Grant
 
I know also, that the hammocks were vertical or diagonal stored in the nets

Contemporary model of the Belle Poule
View attachment 329503 View attachment 329504

Contemporary Painting from Ender from 1817
View attachment 329506

an english 74-gunner represented in a contemporary model
View attachment 329508 View attachment 329509

contemp. model of HMS Phoebe
View attachment 329512 View attachment 329513 View attachment 329514

and also our @dafi made here already once a longer research for his model of the HMS Victory
View attachment 329516 View attachment 329515

In my opinion it is also looking more interesting on a model..... but this is off course subjective taste

I think somehow he described once also how he made the hammocks for his 1:100 model

View attachment 329525

View attachment 329505

View attachment 329507
Good Morning Uwek. Thanks for this. I will look at @dafi victory again. His research and build is fantastic and I have used his build as a reference at times. I appreciate your guidance. Thank you. Cheers Grant
 
Good morning. Hammocks :rolleyes::oops:o_O. I relaid my hammocks vertically as the guys have shown me to be correct. Not neatly I just wanted to see if it will work.
BD6C7258-1C78-479B-A603-7B58384DAB8A.jpeg
I now know I can get these to work, just have to find a way to remake these without the round hole on top showing and will have to be nearer. There is no time limit on this build so I will look at other models and see what I can do.

I still think horizontal looks better but let’s get this correct.
Cheers Grant
 
diagonal is looking (in my opinion) much better - much more interesting
Great that you try out the best solution - so we are looking forward to your future way of making hammocks

Maybe you try once the way dafi mentioned ...... would be good, if you show us the different results (positive and also negative....)
 
I like the diagonal look better, it's interesting what Walterone says about the angle of lay being dependent on the ships ranking. I think uniformity of the angle would become critical for the best look.
 
The Hammocks: I spent some time reading up on these and found an interesting thesis :
876C1F16-4398-45B9-A181-7CCA39D93770.jpeg
Worth a read. What I found out Re the storage of these in a brief Grants summary:
- Each sailor was issued a hammock (later 1770 2 for hygiene purposes) and these were assigned and numbered to each sailor. Even if they moved ship they had to keep these assigned hammocks.
-Each hammock has a designated place for storage in the cranes and netting.
-Hammocks had to be lashed 7 times and rolled to a specific width. During call to arms the hammocks only required 3 lashings.

The punishment for lost, incorrect storage, incorrectly lashed or using another sailors hammock was severe.

The storage and the use for protection of the Hammocks was a grey area with little information up until 1746 according to Admiralty records. Peter Goodwin identifies the use of the cranes in 1710. In 1628 the Duke of Buckingham records the use of hammocks for protection in the his expedition to Rochelle with little other documentary evidence- according to this research.

After - 1746
- the hammocks where stored in the hammock nettings at various times for the following reasons :
1. Ventilation and drying
2. Protection during battle
3. Created more space below for ship activities
4. Peter Goodwin suggests they created a windbreak for sailors

During battle the hammocks where often stacked around the quarter deck cannons, lashed to the forecastle, place on the fighting top, around weaker rigging areas and lanyards, and in the sickbay for protection. Captain Hutchinson even added another 2 layers of horizontal hammocks above the netting and cranes during battle.

In stormy seas they were also placed behind the cannon wheels if a cannon broke free.

The storage of the hammocks was a problem in inclement weather as these got soaked and achieved little. The Royal Navy from 1746 covered these with waterproof canvas being canvas covered with tar and secured down by hooks or ropes on the cranes. Shown in following photos : (the reference is shown)
86A05961-A69D-4DEA-AB19-BB9D541BEDA3.png207DA7E2-6EA1-48F2-962E-3547306388AE.png

D79608E1-8966-450D-81ED-174E48944BD9.jpeg

And a model in the Daily mail as “the most accurate Victory”. ( not sure the press got this right as with my very limited knowledge on this ship I can see some inaccuracies). Thus in the reporters opinion...although she did put this in “”.
5F374A58-5D4C-47F5-BBF6-A4BA1DEE92D6.png

Without the canvas cover (which would look pretty ugly with the tar effect) the question : Vertically or horizontally stored in the netting ?

Prior to 1746 - who knows.

Post 1746 :

In battle there are a multitude of configurations as mentioned.
We have seen photos of drawings from the guys in the know - @Frank48 , @dafi , @Uwek , @Thomas Marocke , @Walterone which show vertical storage. I further found this photo which also clearly shows this method (source shown)
B0625B9B-257E-4684-9C80-0714B49D73C7.png

In my quest to find horizontal storage I failed ROTF unless I decide Grants Victory is Pre 1746;).

However I painted it in Trafalgar colours which was on the 21 October 1805. Eish another redoROTF
Cheers Grant
 
The Hammocks: I spent some time reading up on these and found an interesting thesis :
View attachment 330093
Worth a read. What I found out Re the storage of these in a brief Grants summary:
- Each sailor was issued a hammock (later 1770 2 for hygiene purposes) and these were assigned and numbered to each sailor. Even if they moved ship they had to keep these assigned hammocks.
-Each hammock has a designated place for storage in the cranes and netting.
-Hammocks had to be lashed 7 times and rolled to a specific width. During call to arms the hammocks only required 3 lashings.

The punishment for lost, incorrect storage, incorrectly lashed or using another sailors hammock was severe.

The storage and the use for protection of the Hammocks was a grey area with little information up until 1746 according to Admiralty records. Peter Goodwin identifies the use of the cranes in 1710. In 1628 the Duke of Buckingham records the use of hammocks for protection in the his expedition to Rochelle with little other documentary evidence- according to this research.

After - 1746
- the hammocks where stored in the hammock nettings at various times for the following reasons :
1. Ventilation and drying
2. Protection during battle
3. Created more space below for ship activities
4. Peter Goodwin suggests they created a windbreak for sailors

During battle the hammocks where often stacked around the quarter deck cannons, lashed to the forecastle, place on the fighting top, around weaker rigging areas and lanyards, and in the sickbay for protection. Captain Hutchinson even added another 2 layers of horizontal hammocks above the netting and cranes during battle.

In stormy seas they were also placed behind the cannon wheels if a cannon broke free.

The storage of the hammocks was a problem in inclement weather as these got soaked and achieved little. The Royal Navy from 1746 covered these with waterproof canvas being canvas covered with tar and secured down by hooks or ropes on the cranes. Shown in following photos : (the reference is shown)
View attachment 330094View attachment 330095

View attachment 330096

And a model in the Daily mail as “the most accurate Victory”. ( not sure the press got this right as with my very limited knowledge on this ship I can see some inaccuracies). Thus in the reporters opinion...although she did put this in “”.
View attachment 330097

Without the canvas cover (which would look pretty ugly with the tar effect) the question : Vertically or horizontally stored in the netting ?

Prior to 1746 - who knows.

Post 1746 :

In battle there are a multitude of configurations as mentioned.
We have seen photos of drawings from the guys in the know - @Frank48 , @dafi , @Uwek , @Thomas Marocke , @Walterone which show vertical storage. I further found this photo which also clearly shows this method (source shown)
View attachment 330098

In my quest to find horizontal storage I failed ROTF unless I decide Grants Victory is Pre 1746;).

However I painted it in Trafalgar colours which was on the 21 October 1805. Eish another redoROTF
Cheers Grant
Many Thanks for all these additional information and the hint to this thesis

I found this model shown in Figure 32

l2294_001.jpg l2294_002.jpg

l2294_003.jpg rp9625.jpg

Sectional model​

Scale: 1:24. Sectional model depicting part of the gun deck of a warship with a 6.5 ton gun in position complete with its slide carriage, shells and equipment. The section shows part of the upper part of a ship's hull, with a gunport and its lids which are in an open position. Above the gunport, there is a section of hammock rail with hammocks stowed. Above the gunport and beneath the hammock rail, on the exterior of the hull, a hand-written label in white lettering on a black ground reads " SECTION OF SHIP WITH 61/2 TON GUN IN POSITION &c." and a paper label with "6" printed in black type. Two decks are depicted, the lower one is integral to the baseboard of the model, which sits on four turned bun feet. This deck shows a muzzle-loading gun and its carriage, deck rails, two shell racks with shells, a brown cylindrical container with a label marked "Canister", and a rack containing four items including a reamer and a sponge. Neither the rack nor the container are fixed to the model. The deck above, which forms the main deck of the vessel, has been depicted cutaway with planking and deck beams broken away to reveal below the gun, its equipment and tackle. The two decks and the interior face of the ship's side are realistically finished in planked, stained and varnished wood. The exterior of the hull is realistically painted black with a white band running horizontally along the line of the gunport. Underneath the model, "Sheerness Yard" has been prominently written on the baseboard.

 
If you not want to put them into the nettings, there is still another way of presentation of hammocks - not very often shown on models ;)


pu6170.jpg

H.M.S. Queen, Corfu Roads​

As the title indicates, this coloured lithograph depicts the British naval vessel Queen, in starboard broadside view, at anchor, in the Corfu Roads. The sea is very calm and several flags hang limply from the mast heads and stern gaff. All the sails are furled and the lower rigging is entirely draped from bow to stern with drying hammocks. Low hills, rising to mountains, can be seen in the background.


Here I know only one model showing the that way of drying hammocks (and sails)

Achille_mp3h9307.jpg Achille_mg_6916.jpg

Achille_mg_6917.jpg Achille_mp3h9308.jpg

Scale model of Achille, a typical French seventy-four of the Téméraire class at the beginning of the 19th century.

 
The Hammocks: I spent some time reading up on these and found an interesting thesis :
View attachment 330093
Worth a read. What I found out Re the storage of these in a brief Grants summary:
- Each sailor was issued a hammock (later 1770 2 for hygiene purposes) and these were assigned and numbered to each sailor. Even if they moved ship they had to keep these assigned hammocks.
-Each hammock has a designated place for storage in the cranes and netting.
-Hammocks had to be lashed 7 times and rolled to a specific width. During call to arms the hammocks only required 3 lashings.

The punishment for lost, incorrect storage, incorrectly lashed or using another sailors hammock was severe.

The storage and the use for protection of the Hammocks was a grey area with little information up until 1746 according to Admiralty records. Peter Goodwin identifies the use of the cranes in 1710. In 1628 the Duke of Buckingham records the use of hammocks for protection in the his expedition to Rochelle with little other documentary evidence- according to this research.

After - 1746
- the hammocks where stored in the hammock nettings at various times for the following reasons :
1. Ventilation and drying
2. Protection during battle
3. Created more space below for ship activities
4. Peter Goodwin suggests they created a windbreak for sailors

During battle the hammocks where often stacked around the quarter deck cannons, lashed to the forecastle, place on the fighting top, around weaker rigging areas and lanyards, and in the sickbay for protection. Captain Hutchinson even added another 2 layers of horizontal hammocks above the netting and cranes during battle.

In stormy seas they were also placed behind the cannon wheels if a cannon broke free.

The storage of the hammocks was a problem in inclement weather as these got soaked and achieved little. The Royal Navy from 1746 covered these with waterproof canvas being canvas covered with tar and secured down by hooks or ropes on the cranes. Shown in following photos : (the reference is shown)
View attachment 330094View attachment 330095

View attachment 330096

And a model in the Daily mail as “the most accurate Victory”. ( not sure the press got this right as with my very limited knowledge on this ship I can see some inaccuracies). Thus in the reporters opinion...although she did put this in “”.
View attachment 330097

Without the canvas cover (which would look pretty ugly with the tar effect) the question : Vertically or horizontally stored in the netting ?

Prior to 1746 - who knows.

Post 1746 :

In battle there are a multitude of configurations as mentioned.
We have seen photos of drawings from the guys in the know - @Frank48 , @dafi , @Uwek , @Thomas Marocke , @Walterone which show vertical storage. I further found this photo which also clearly shows this method (source shown)
View attachment 330098

In my quest to find horizontal storage I failed ROTF unless I decide Grants Victory is Pre 1746;).

However I painted it in Trafalgar colours which was on the 21 October 1805. Eish another redoROTF
Cheers Grant
Hi Grant. Wonderful find. I found the thesis and will be reading it soon. Very applicable (and apparently believable) as the author was from ECU (East Carolina University) whose school mascot/nickname is "Pirates".
 
If you not want to put them into the nettings, there is still another way of presentation of hammocks - not very often shown on models ;)


View attachment 330116

H.M.S. Queen, Corfu Roads​

As the title indicates, this coloured lithograph depicts the British naval vessel Queen, in starboard broadside view, at anchor, in the Corfu Roads. The sea is very calm and several flags hang limply from the mast heads and stern gaff. All the sails are furled and the lower rigging is entirely draped from bow to stern with drying hammocks. Low hills, rising to mountains, can be seen in the background.


Here I know only one model showing the that way of drying hammocks (and sails)

View attachment 330119 View attachment 330117

View attachment 330118 View attachment 330120

Scale model of Achille, a typical French seventy-four of the Téméraire class at the beginning of the 19th century.

Good morning Uwek. Thanks for this. In my reading I did see one or two examples of crew airing hammocks this way. I think from a model point of view it sort of detracts from the overall look of model. I will go for the vertical hammocks in the netting. I will have to finish this before too many stays etc get in the way. I already have shrouds to contend with. Thanks again. Cheers Grant
 
Good morning. Not much to show busy finishing the ratlines. I did have a break from these and prepared the channels with the extra dead eyes and rings for the many back and breast stays on the Victory.
65E25649-F14F-46E1-8FC2-BFE61F58A7CD.jpeg
I have run out of 5mm dead eyes - I run out of everything with this ship. ROTF. The 3 rings at the aft of the channel are a bit cramped. I don’t think the Mantua kit is 100% accurate to scale on quite a few things- as I have found out previously. Non the less it is going to work just fine. Cheers Grant
 
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