I want to wish you a Happy Birthday, Wil.
Enjoy this day!
Regards, Peter
Enjoy this day!
Regards, Peter
-
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HMS Victory of Caldercraft by Wil
- Thread starter Scheepshoorn
- Start date
- Watchers 29
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- Tags
- caldercraft victory
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2024
- Messages
- 82
- Points
- 113
From now on, this build log on SOS will run in sync with my work.
In post 158 Stephan rightly pointed out to me that I had suspended one boat from a stay tackle, which logically of course cannot happen in reality. This would result in excessive tension in the stays. In addition, there is of course the obstruction that in this way the boat cannot be hung alongside the ship.
Stephan wouldn’t be Stephan if he didn’t come up with a solution, and he referred me to the book by Harland. A very specialist book on rigging, which I did not know. Just before our vacation I still got to work on the tackles for a bit.
The question of how the boats should be put overboard has occupied me for quite some time. But the Caldercraft manual says absolutely nothing about this. Even Longridge and McKay provide no real clarity. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that tackles do not belong to the fixed rope functions, but were only rigged when needed and cleared away again after use.
However, the book by Harland provided the solution, and I soon found a drawing in Zu Mondfeld showing how everything could be realized. I have executed the diagram on page 271 twice, in mirror image.
In the photo below it can be seen how it ultimately turned out. In the background the two tackles, which are attached to the main stay. In the foreground, in mirror image, the two stay tackles with which the boats can be put overboard and heavy loads can be hoisted on board. When the yards are added later, two more lines will be added from the end of the yard to the eye splices at the bottom of the little triangles. With these two lines the lateral movements are ultimately achieved.
I think this is how it should be, I am very satisfied.
In post 158 Stephan rightly pointed out to me that I had suspended one boat from a stay tackle, which logically of course cannot happen in reality. This would result in excessive tension in the stays. In addition, there is of course the obstruction that in this way the boat cannot be hung alongside the ship.
Stephan wouldn’t be Stephan if he didn’t come up with a solution, and he referred me to the book by Harland. A very specialist book on rigging, which I did not know. Just before our vacation I still got to work on the tackles for a bit.
The question of how the boats should be put overboard has occupied me for quite some time. But the Caldercraft manual says absolutely nothing about this. Even Longridge and McKay provide no real clarity. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that tackles do not belong to the fixed rope functions, but were only rigged when needed and cleared away again after use.
However, the book by Harland provided the solution, and I soon found a drawing in Zu Mondfeld showing how everything could be realized. I have executed the diagram on page 271 twice, in mirror image.
In the photo below it can be seen how it ultimately turned out. In the background the two tackles, which are attached to the main stay. In the foreground, in mirror image, the two stay tackles with which the boats can be put overboard and heavy loads can be hoisted on board. When the yards are added later, two more lines will be added from the end of the yard to the eye splices at the bottom of the little triangles. With these two lines the lateral movements are ultimately achieved.
I think this is how it should be, I am very satisfied.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 5,716
- Points
- 738
Almost Wil, the drawing shows it, but a little further on there is also text with an explanation. It is the side tackles that is used. See red encircled. The ones you first attached to the masthead before the shrouds. In conjunction with the yard tackles. One to move the boat outwards and one on the other side of the yard to keep the yard horizontal as a counterweight.
These side tackles are the same rope/cable used for the shrouds and only used to lift heavy loads. Or to secure the mast when the weather is rough.
These side tackles are the same rope/cable used for the shrouds and only used to lift heavy loads. Or to secure the mast when the weather is rough.
I looked at Steel, Lees, and elsewhere and cannot find a clear explanation on how the boats were launched. I looked in the Textbook of Seamanship which has great drawings but it is late 19th century so may not apply. https://maritime.org/doc/luce/index.php
Will there be the lines to the yards after the yards are in place? If you or anyone else has a link to a clear description on how these were launched, including when derricks came into use, this would be interesting to see. In the meantime, the hunt goes on.......
Thanks Wil
Allan
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 5,716
- Points
- 738
Some translations of English to Dutch Wil. I think that the mistake is the translation.
Stagtakel in Dutch is the Garnet tackle in English
Zijtakel in Dutch is the stay or side tackle in English. That is difficult to understand which one Harland discribes. So when Harland write about the stay tackle he is talking about in Dutch "de zijtakels" and not about the garnet tackle (Dutch Stagtakel) The burtons are the hangers on the mizzen mast and are also stay tackles (side tackles of zijtakels) Took me almost 2 days to see this too.
For Alan, buy you a copy of the book of Harland, Leest and Harland are 2 books the fit together. Harland was on sailing ships and studied the way how things where done. Fantastic book to read. See attachment where I put the 3 pages about the tackles and hoisting of a boat.
Stagtakel in Dutch is the Garnet tackle in English
Zijtakel in Dutch is the stay or side tackle in English. That is difficult to understand which one Harland discribes. So when Harland write about the stay tackle he is talking about in Dutch "de zijtakels" and not about the garnet tackle (Dutch Stagtakel) The burtons are the hangers on the mizzen mast and are also stay tackles (side tackles of zijtakels) Took me almost 2 days to see this too.
For Alan, buy you a copy of the book of Harland, Leest and Harland are 2 books the fit together. Harland was on sailing ships and studied the way how things where done. Fantastic book to read. See attachment where I put the 3 pages about the tackles and hoisting of a boat.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 5,716
- Points
- 738
Otherwise see this discussion
Pinnace Papegojan 1627 - 1/48 [COMPLETED BUILD]
Specific for Matt: Earlier today I made a promis about a surprize. That surprize was the announcement of the launch of an online program, in which the user can walk through a virtual pinas ship from 1671 and get all sorts of technical information about parts of the vessel. This afternoon I was...
shipsofscale.com
THANK YOU STEPHAN!!
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2024
- Messages
- 82
- Points
- 113
47 Standing rigging complete
Since my last post, almost 3 months have passed and I had hoped to be further along by now than I am.
After the tackles between the mizzen and the main mast, it was the fore topmast (or topmast) that came next. We are dealing here successively with:
Fore topmast tackle pendants
Fore topmast shrouds with ratlines and catharpins
Fore topmast futtock shrouds
Fore topmast stay
Fore topmast preventer stay
Fore topmast shifting backstays
Fore topmast standing backstays
Fore topmast breast backstays
In fact, this is again a repetition of steps, just like with the mizzen and the main mast, completing project number 7.
Next, one level higher, to the topgallant masts.
Successively from front to back:
Mizzen topgallant shrouds
Mizzen topgallant shifting backstays
Mizzen topgallant stay
Main topgallant shrouds
Main topgallant shifting backstays
Main topgallant stay
Main topgallant flagstaff stay
Main topgallant royal backstays
Fore topgallant shrouds
Fore topgallant shifting backstays
Fore topgallant stay
Fore topgallant flagstaff stay
Fore topgallant royal backstays
The topgallant shrouds are executed without ratlines and catharpins.
Worth mentioning at this stage is that the shrouds are fastened below the top of the upper mast sections. I did this by placing an eye splice tightly around the mast. The thickened part of this mast section ensures that the shrouds cannot slide down.
The further routing is then as follows:
The stays then lie on top of the shrouds again at the masthead.
Projects 8, 9 and 10 are now also completed.
Then on to the bowsprit with successively:
Inner martingale
Outer martingale
Fore topgallant flagstaff stay
Initially, I had tightened the backstays of the foremast too much, causing the upper section of the mast not to stand upright but to lean too far backward. Not a good sight. I had hoped to correct this with the bowsprit stays, but unfortunately not. I then loosened all the lanyards again and gradually retensioned the lines so that the mast remained upright. As soon as you tighten one line too much, others start to slacken. So it is a matter of finding the right balance.
Once this was done, project 11 of 25 was also completed, meaning the standing rigging is entirely finished. This accounts for 64 of the 248 rope functions and 256 different ropes have been made, excluding all ratlines, lanyards and seizings.
The result can be seen in the photos below.
Just for the statistics:
• At this moment I have been working on building the Victory for 4 years;
• In these 4 years I have worked on the ship for 1800 hours over 490 days;
• Of this, 95 hours were spent building the ropewalk and the serving tool and modifying McKay’s table;
• And 110 hours on learning rope making;
• The standing rigging took me 375 hours.
All the work on the rigging has not bored me for a minute, not even the application of the ratlines. During that time you really see your ship grow, which gives a great deal of satisfaction. In addition, the choice to make your own rope adds enormous value. The correct proportions between rope thicknesses and the corresponding mast sections greatly enhance the overall appearance of the ship.
For now, I am closing the chapter of rigging. In the coming period I will focus entirely on making the yards and other wooden mast components. The ropewalk will be swapped for the lathe for a while.
To be continued.
Since my last post, almost 3 months have passed and I had hoped to be further along by now than I am.
After the tackles between the mizzen and the main mast, it was the fore topmast (or topmast) that came next. We are dealing here successively with:
Fore topmast tackle pendants
Fore topmast shrouds with ratlines and catharpins
Fore topmast futtock shrouds
Fore topmast stay
Fore topmast preventer stay
Fore topmast shifting backstays
Fore topmast standing backstays
Fore topmast breast backstays
In fact, this is again a repetition of steps, just like with the mizzen and the main mast, completing project number 7.
Next, one level higher, to the topgallant masts.
Successively from front to back:
Mizzen topgallant shrouds
Mizzen topgallant shifting backstays
Mizzen topgallant stay
Main topgallant shrouds
Main topgallant shifting backstays
Main topgallant stay
Main topgallant flagstaff stay
Main topgallant royal backstays
Fore topgallant shrouds
Fore topgallant shifting backstays
Fore topgallant stay
Fore topgallant flagstaff stay
Fore topgallant royal backstays
The topgallant shrouds are executed without ratlines and catharpins.
Worth mentioning at this stage is that the shrouds are fastened below the top of the upper mast sections. I did this by placing an eye splice tightly around the mast. The thickened part of this mast section ensures that the shrouds cannot slide down.
The further routing is then as follows:
- hrough the holes in the topgallant cross-trees (outwards)
- Behind the catharpins of the topmast shrouds (back inwards)
- Behind the topmast shrouds towards the tops
- Fastened with a double eye splice on the inside behind the deadeyes on the tops
The stays then lie on top of the shrouds again at the masthead.
Projects 8, 9 and 10 are now also completed.
Then on to the bowsprit with successively:
Inner martingale
Outer martingale
Fore topgallant flagstaff stay
Initially, I had tightened the backstays of the foremast too much, causing the upper section of the mast not to stand upright but to lean too far backward. Not a good sight. I had hoped to correct this with the bowsprit stays, but unfortunately not. I then loosened all the lanyards again and gradually retensioned the lines so that the mast remained upright. As soon as you tighten one line too much, others start to slacken. So it is a matter of finding the right balance.
Once this was done, project 11 of 25 was also completed, meaning the standing rigging is entirely finished. This accounts for 64 of the 248 rope functions and 256 different ropes have been made, excluding all ratlines, lanyards and seizings.
The result can be seen in the photos below.
Just for the statistics:
• At this moment I have been working on building the Victory for 4 years;
• In these 4 years I have worked on the ship for 1800 hours over 490 days;
• Of this, 95 hours were spent building the ropewalk and the serving tool and modifying McKay’s table;
• And 110 hours on learning rope making;
• The standing rigging took me 375 hours.
All the work on the rigging has not bored me for a minute, not even the application of the ratlines. During that time you really see your ship grow, which gives a great deal of satisfaction. In addition, the choice to make your own rope adds enormous value. The correct proportions between rope thicknesses and the corresponding mast sections greatly enhance the overall appearance of the ship.
For now, I am closing the chapter of rigging. In the coming period I will focus entirely on making the yards and other wooden mast components. The ropewalk will be swapped for the lathe for a while.
To be continued.
Beautiful job Will
Congrats
True story. Fabulous
It took 'some time' but this is a impressive up-date, Wil. Very nice rigging!
Regards, Peter
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2024
- Messages
- 82
- Points
- 113
48 The Yards
Thanks again everyone for the compliments.
As I mentioned in my last post, it’s temporarily the end of the ropework for now. The construction of the yards was next on the planning, so I brought out the lathe again. Quite handy, such a small one. After turning the core timbers, the necessary reinforcements still had to be added to the yards of the three masts, eventually creating an octagonal shape.
In the end, you end up with a whole collection of spars, with all kinds of fittings attached. I placed everything into a compartment and numbered it so the various parts can easily be found again.
From left to right:
Mizzen mast:
Driver Gaff
Bowsprit:
I use my lathe as an extra pair of hands. I clamp a brass tube in it and drill a 1 mm hole about 1.5 mm from the end. In this hole I place a right-angled bent 1 mm brass rod, clamping it onto a wooden block. After that, I solder the two parts together using a crème brûlée torch (ideal for this fine work), then cut the brass rod to about 2 cm length. Finally, I remove the piece from the tube using a sharp chisel.
Eventually, the sets look as follows:
Mizzen mast
Main mast
Fore mast
Driver boom and gaff
Bowsprit
Once everything is painted, another nice job will have been completed.
Thanks again everyone for the compliments.
As I mentioned in my last post, it’s temporarily the end of the ropework for now. The construction of the yards was next on the planning, so I brought out the lathe again. Quite handy, such a small one. After turning the core timbers, the necessary reinforcements still had to be added to the yards of the three masts, eventually creating an octagonal shape.
In the end, you end up with a whole collection of spars, with all kinds of fittings attached. I placed everything into a compartment and numbered it so the various parts can easily be found again.
From left to right:
Mizzen mast:
- Cross Jack Yard
- Mizzen Topmast Yard
- Mizzen Topgallant Yard)
- Main Yard
- Main Topmast Yard
- Main Topgallant Yard
- Fore Yard
- Fore Topmast Yard
- Fore Topgallant Yard
Driver Gaff
Bowsprit:
- Spritsail Yard
- Spritsail Topsail Yard
- Ensign Staff
- Boomkins
- Main Lower Studding Sail Boom
- Fore Lower Studding Sail Boom
I use my lathe as an extra pair of hands. I clamp a brass tube in it and drill a 1 mm hole about 1.5 mm from the end. In this hole I place a right-angled bent 1 mm brass rod, clamping it onto a wooden block. After that, I solder the two parts together using a crème brûlée torch (ideal for this fine work), then cut the brass rod to about 2 cm length. Finally, I remove the piece from the tube using a sharp chisel.
Eventually, the sets look as follows:
Mizzen mast
Main mast
Fore mast
Driver boom and gaff
Bowsprit
Once everything is painted, another nice job will have been completed.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2024
- Messages
- 82
- Points
- 113
After I had painted all the round timber from my previous post, it was time to start on the rigging of the yards.
The building instructions indicate that I should make the horses’ pendants from 0.7 mm brass. In fact, these are simply elongated eye bolts. After annealing the brass wire, it is easy to bend very small eyes around a drill bit.
With my idea of fitting the yards with furled sails, I did not really get much further with this. Some things might get in each other’s way. However, McKay’s table helped me by indicating that this should be made of rope.
First, I fitted the yards with the horses and their stirrups, after which the various pulleys could be attached. The drawings are a good guide here. To keep an overview, I wrote the number of the corresponding running rigging line on each block. It is quite a puzzle, but at this moment it gives me confidence that I am starting to get some control over all the lines that need to be added.
To maintain some form stability in the horses, I then clamped the yard onto a piece of cardboard with foil and coated the horses and pendants with clear varnish. After curing, everything is reasonably shape-retaining but still flexible, which may be important later in combination with the furled sails. The kit assumes a model without sails, so it does not consider this aspect.
Eventually, the set of yards for the mizzen looks as follows.
Because most of the lines will later be made from very thin rope, this means that the corresponding blocks must also be very small. A rope of 0.2 mm at a scale of 1:72 corresponds in reality to about 15 mm. For lines of this thickness, you therefore end up with blocks of 2.5 mm. I tried to wrap the rope around these blocks between my fingers, but that resulted in endless searches for blocks slipping out of my hands. Until I came up with the idea of placing the blocks onto a small drill bit, which I clamped into my helping hands tool. This works fantastically. No more searching, and wrapping the rope around the block works perfectly. The associated windings consist of 3 or 4 knots, alternately on top of each other, finished with a very small drop of superglue.
For the material for the sails I now have two options. Fine cloth that I bought in Dordrecht and that Hans has coloured, and Japanese paper recommended by Stephan.
The cloth gives me the least construction-related headaches, I think, but at scale this material is actually too thick. In that case I would have to work with shortened sails to avoid too much material against the yards.
Working with paper, however, seems much more difficult, but it might lead to a more realistic result.
So I think I will first make some test samples with both materials.
Question:
I once read that a set of furled sails becomes progressively thicker from the outside to the inside. I can imagine this for a triangular sail, but not for a rectangular sail. Or are the lower corners of the sail first pulled up towards the centre before furling?
Who knows?
In addition, all tips for making the sails are very welcome at this point.
I am curious.
The building instructions indicate that I should make the horses’ pendants from 0.7 mm brass. In fact, these are simply elongated eye bolts. After annealing the brass wire, it is easy to bend very small eyes around a drill bit.
With my idea of fitting the yards with furled sails, I did not really get much further with this. Some things might get in each other’s way. However, McKay’s table helped me by indicating that this should be made of rope.
First, I fitted the yards with the horses and their stirrups, after which the various pulleys could be attached. The drawings are a good guide here. To keep an overview, I wrote the number of the corresponding running rigging line on each block. It is quite a puzzle, but at this moment it gives me confidence that I am starting to get some control over all the lines that need to be added.
To maintain some form stability in the horses, I then clamped the yard onto a piece of cardboard with foil and coated the horses and pendants with clear varnish. After curing, everything is reasonably shape-retaining but still flexible, which may be important later in combination with the furled sails. The kit assumes a model without sails, so it does not consider this aspect.
Eventually, the set of yards for the mizzen looks as follows.
Because most of the lines will later be made from very thin rope, this means that the corresponding blocks must also be very small. A rope of 0.2 mm at a scale of 1:72 corresponds in reality to about 15 mm. For lines of this thickness, you therefore end up with blocks of 2.5 mm. I tried to wrap the rope around these blocks between my fingers, but that resulted in endless searches for blocks slipping out of my hands. Until I came up with the idea of placing the blocks onto a small drill bit, which I clamped into my helping hands tool. This works fantastically. No more searching, and wrapping the rope around the block works perfectly. The associated windings consist of 3 or 4 knots, alternately on top of each other, finished with a very small drop of superglue.
For the material for the sails I now have two options. Fine cloth that I bought in Dordrecht and that Hans has coloured, and Japanese paper recommended by Stephan.
The cloth gives me the least construction-related headaches, I think, but at scale this material is actually too thick. In that case I would have to work with shortened sails to avoid too much material against the yards.
Working with paper, however, seems much more difficult, but it might lead to a more realistic result.
So I think I will first make some test samples with both materials.
Question:
I once read that a set of furled sails becomes progressively thicker from the outside to the inside. I can imagine this for a triangular sail, but not for a rectangular sail. Or are the lower corners of the sail first pulled up towards the centre before furling?
Who knows?
In addition, all tips for making the sails are very welcome at this point.
I am curious.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2024
- Messages
- 82
- Points
- 113
Thank you all for your likes.
The whole discussion about sail materials has been occupying my thoughts quite a bit over the last few days. I have also had a very interesting conversation about it with AI. I use Claude.ai for this, which is much smarter than ChatGPT. It's great fun to pretend, despite having some prior knowledge, that you know nothing and ask questions along a more or less familiar path. I even had to correct Claude several times.
This conversation has given me a few insights:
First of all, my initial concern about using paper for the sails is beginning to fade. I am seriously considering it now, as it is much easier to work with than all the sewing required for fabric sails. What I still don't know is how the paper will behave when folding the reefed sails. Only practical tests will provide the answer to that.
Another question is which sails should be set full, reefed, or omitted altogether. At the moment, I am considering setting the following sails fully deployed: the gaff sail, the three topgallant sails, and perhaps a sail at the bottom of the bowsprit. It's a bit of a compromise that gives you something everywhere, while still keeping all the work on the masts and rigging clearly visible. All the remaining sails would be reefed. I intend to omit the studding sails and staysails completely. In reality, this configuration probably makes little sense, but aesthetics matter too. After all, a ship lying in harbour with reefed sails and its cannons run out makes no practical sense either, yet it certainly looks impressive.
Question: does anyone have photos of a ship with this kind of half-set/half-reefed sail arrangement?
A few weeks ago, the idea of going to our expo in Amsterdam started to appeal to me again. And of course the big question was: “Will my Victory, with all her masts, still fit in my car? And if so, how?”
I first fitted my building board with a one-metre pole (because that's roughly how tall the Victory has become by now) at the position of the main mast and secured it upright with four pieces of string. Then I took it to the car and discovered that I had exactly 2 cm to spare. However, at that point the whole setup was not yet properly secured.
After sleeping on it for a few nights, I came up with a solution. I built a narrower building board and constructed a steel "sliding drawer" frame around it, which can be clamped absolutely rigidly at a specific point inside the car. The Victory fits inside—albeit with about a 60-degree list—but is securely supported and well protected.
You have to be creative!
Amsterdam, here we come.
The whole discussion about sail materials has been occupying my thoughts quite a bit over the last few days. I have also had a very interesting conversation about it with AI. I use Claude.ai for this, which is much smarter than ChatGPT. It's great fun to pretend, despite having some prior knowledge, that you know nothing and ask questions along a more or less familiar path. I even had to correct Claude several times.
This conversation has given me a few insights:
First of all, my initial concern about using paper for the sails is beginning to fade. I am seriously considering it now, as it is much easier to work with than all the sewing required for fabric sails. What I still don't know is how the paper will behave when folding the reefed sails. Only practical tests will provide the answer to that.
Another question is which sails should be set full, reefed, or omitted altogether. At the moment, I am considering setting the following sails fully deployed: the gaff sail, the three topgallant sails, and perhaps a sail at the bottom of the bowsprit. It's a bit of a compromise that gives you something everywhere, while still keeping all the work on the masts and rigging clearly visible. All the remaining sails would be reefed. I intend to omit the studding sails and staysails completely. In reality, this configuration probably makes little sense, but aesthetics matter too. After all, a ship lying in harbour with reefed sails and its cannons run out makes no practical sense either, yet it certainly looks impressive.
Question: does anyone have photos of a ship with this kind of half-set/half-reefed sail arrangement?
A few weeks ago, the idea of going to our expo in Amsterdam started to appeal to me again. And of course the big question was: “Will my Victory, with all her masts, still fit in my car? And if so, how?”
I first fitted my building board with a one-metre pole (because that's roughly how tall the Victory has become by now) at the position of the main mast and secured it upright with four pieces of string. Then I took it to the car and discovered that I had exactly 2 cm to spare. However, at that point the whole setup was not yet properly secured.
After sleeping on it for a few nights, I came up with a solution. I built a narrower building board and constructed a steel "sliding drawer" frame around it, which can be clamped absolutely rigidly at a specific point inside the car. The Victory fits inside—albeit with about a 60-degree list—but is securely supported and well protected.
You have to be creative!
Amsterdam, here we come.
You have guts to move you Victory this way to A’dam, Wil. But it looks a very solid construction. Always nice when a ‘well-though-out’ plan comes together.
Regards, Peter
Good morning Wil. WOW very brave. Enjoy Amsterdam. Cheers Grant