LE COUREUR - french Lugger 1776 - POF kit from CAF in 1:48 by Uwe

Uwek said:
Finalizing the oars

Comparing with the Boudriot drawing of the Le Coureur
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- after some time of carefully sanding I finished all eight oars

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I have to state, that CAF prepared for the kit really very good timber - for parts like these oars you finaly realize how important is a good timber you are working.
The oars are flexible and you can bend them without braking or cracking, the grain is running exactly along the length of the oars, so no problems at all during sanding and preparation - Bravo @CAFmodel for such a kit

At the end of this post -> PULL - PULL - PULL
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Click to expand...
Last night I downloaded a research paper whose title included "Lead weights associated with wood". It presented findings off of the Israel coast for Bronze Age wrecks where lead sheet and trapizoidal items were recovered. Analysis concluded that they were used with long oars by the handle section to offset the oar outboard weight. Two types: a sheet with engravings wrapped around the oar itself and with nail holes for speculated copper nails. Second was a cast trapazoid with a depression on one side to fit on the side or bottom of an oar. It makes sense as long oars would be heavy in themselves with most of the weight outboard when in the recovery phase of each stroke. Interesting but logical. Rich (PT-2)
 
Jimsky said:
Sorry, Mon Ami, unless the tug boat is attached from the port-side (no visible), I don't see how this small motorboat can pull Hermione. If you look closely, you will not see any tow-cables attached. Also, given that she has some sails 'ON', she might sail on her own, IMHO. ;) But...I could be wrong...
Click to expand...
Oh Ja - Mon Ami -> You are WRONG! ;)

The Hermione is very special - she has a diesel motor, but a very small one only to manouevre and in very special emergency cases. They are not using the motor for sailing - it is somply not possible, because it is too small.
Her sails shown in the photo are only for show or already prepared, when she is reaching the open sea.

Here you can see the river and the city with the harbor (red arrow)
Unbenannt.JPG Unbenannt1.JPG

I guess you understand, that sailing with sails will be not possible on such a river over the distance. I remember from my visit there some years ago, that the guide told us, that ships sometimes needed more than one day to pass the distance

And here, that you really believe me

take a close look at the small red dott
4.jpg

and here you can see the "dott" better
les-flots-hotel-residence-vacances-st-palais-4.jpg

3.jpg

2.jpg
 
Hi Uwe!

I found a picture of the french marine draftsman "Ozanne".

P9220565.JPG
Capture of an english lugger during a calm on august 15, 1779. The canoes and sloops of the frigates l'Athalante and Sainte-Catherine approach the lugger which is too slow with its oars. A part of the English crew is already reduced by musket shots and then the ship is boarded.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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Uwek said:
Oh Ja - Mon Ami -> You are WRONG! ;)

The Hermione is very special - she has a diesel motor, but a very small one only to manouevre and in very special emergency cases. They are not using the motor for sailing - it is somply not possible, because it is too small.
Her sails shown in the photo are only for show or already prepared, when she is reaching the open sea.

Here you can see the river and the city with the harbor (red arrow)
View attachment 257525 View attachment 257526

I guess you understand, that sailing with sails will be not possible on such a river over the distance. I remember from my visit there some years ago, that the guide told us, that ships sometimes needed more than one day to pass the distance

And here, that you really believe me

take a close look at the small red dott
View attachment 257523

and here you can see the "dott" better
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View attachment 257522

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Click to expand...
Her some photos of my day trip on the river, Fort Boyard and island Île-d'Aix

INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION OF MODEL SHIPBUILDING - Rochefort, France - 18.th-21.st October 2018

During these days in Rochefort we had also the possibility to visit some naval highlights of the city. We visited the Maritime museum, the replica of the frigate Hermione and also the Air Command museum. Detailed photo reports you can find here: Marine Museum Rochefort, France - MUSÉE DE LA...
shipsofscale.com

At the time of this post I wrote:
along the river - during the time of sailing it took appr. one week for the Ships of Line to travel between Rochefort harbour to the open sea
 
Thomas Marocke said:
Hi Uwe!

I found a picture of the french marine draftsman "Ozanne".

View attachment 257534
Capture of an english lugger during a calm on august 15, 1779. The canoes and sloops of the frigates l'Athalante and Sainte-Catherine approach the lugger which is too slow with its oars. A part of the English crew is already reduced by musket shots and then the ship is boarded.

Best regards
Thomas
Click to expand...
Great find
- we can see, that the english lugger also had only 5 oars on each side in use - and still some oars stored aft alongside the hull .....
 
Boudriot is writing in his monograph:
the oars are 35 feet in length and operated by four men. There are 9 crotches on each side, but the vessel cannot be fitted with all oars out at the same time due to lack of crewmembers

and he is also writing
The oars are stored either on the deck against the ship´s boat or alongside the hull in iron crotches fitted towards the stern.....

After I finished the 8 oars content in the kit, I was able to check, how it is looking when the oars will be stored on the deck - here you can see, that the oars a really long compared to the vessel they belong to.....
when there are also the four guns installed and the boat and maybe the spare anchor ...... I think the deck will be very crowdy
IMG-7207.jpg

So let us once more take a look inside the Boudriot monograph of the Le Coureur

IMG-7191.jpg

IMG-7193.jpg

We can find these two contemporary illustrations showing the oars stored alongside the hull in iron crotches fitted towards the stern.

So I think, this will be the way of presentation (if I will add the oars to the model)

With some brass wire I made fastly some loops and added the oars, only to see how it will look like

IMG-7210.jpg

IMG-7211.jpg

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these oars are really looooong

IMG-7212.jpg

IMG-7213.jpg

Hmmmmm .... I will see at the end, when the masts, spars and sails are added how it will look like ....

.... also the question to the members watching this building log -> What do you think?

BTW:
We have now reached more than 1.000 posts in this building log -
Many Thanks to all of you having interest in my work, following and / or commenting in this topic :cool:
Also off course for all the likes received
 
Uwek said:
Boudriot is writing in his monograph:
the oars are 35 feet in length and operated by four men. There are 9 crotches on each side, but the vessel cannot be fitted with all oars out at the same time due to lack of crewmembers

and he is also writing
The oars are stored either on the deck against the ship´s boat or alongside the hull in iron crotches fitted towards the stern.....

After I finished the 8 oars content in the kit, I was able to check, how it is looking when the oars will be stored on the deck - here you can see, that the oars a really long compared to the vessel they belong to.....
when there are also the four guns installed and the boat and maybe the spare anchor ...... I think the deck will be very crowdy
View attachment 257547

So let us once more take a look inside the Boudriot monograph of the Le Coureur

View attachment 257545

View attachment 257546

We can find these two contemporary illustrations showing the oars stored alongside the hull in iron crotches fitted towards the stern.

So I think, this will be the way of presentation (if I will add the oars to the model)

With some brass wire I made fastly some loops and added the oars, only to see how it will look like

View attachment 257548

View attachment 257549

View attachment 257552

these oars are really looooong

View attachment 257550

View attachment 257551

Hmmmmm .... I will see at the end, when the masts, spars and sails are added how it will look like ....

.... also the question to the members watching this building log -> What do you think?

BTW:
We have now reached more than 1.000 posts in this building log -
Many Thanks to all of you having interest in my work, following and / or commenting in this topic :cool:
Also off course for all the likes received
Click to expand...
Dear Uwek,

First my compliments about the oars, all hand sanded, I understood?
When looking at your trial oar installation, I wondered whether or not they would have the oars in two groups of four on either side of the hull. Is there any historical evidence for that assumption?

Kind regards,

Johan
 
Olivers Historic Shipyard said:
I think its a good idea because its not a commonly detail. Interesting !
Click to expand...
Hallo Uwe, I agree with Oliver, this is not a common representation and therefore quite an interesting one. Looking at Boudriots drawings, the oars are probably attached to both sides. So as Johan correctly recognized, on each side 4. Then the whole thing does not look so bulky. It looks more elegant.
 
Uwek said:
Boudriot is writing in his monograph:
the oars are 35 feet in length and operated by four men. There are 9 crotches on each side, but the vessel cannot be fitted with all oars out at the same time due to lack of crewmembers

and he is also writing
The oars are stored either on the deck against the ship´s boat or alongside the hull in iron crotches fitted towards the stern.....

After I finished the 8 oars content in the kit, I was able to check, how it is looking when the oars will be stored on the deck - here you can see, that the oars a really long compared to the vessel they belong to.....
when there are also the four guns installed and the boat and maybe the spare anchor ...... I think the deck will be very crowdy
View attachment 257547

So let us once more take a look inside the Boudriot monograph of the Le Coureur

View attachment 257545

View attachment 257546

We can find these two contemporary illustrations showing the oars stored alongside the hull in iron crotches fitted towards the stern.

So I think, this will be the way of presentation (if I will add the oars to the model)

With some brass wire I made fastly some loops and added the oars, only to see how it will look like

View attachment 257548

View attachment 257549

View attachment 257552

these oars are really looooong

View attachment 257550

View attachment 257551

Hmmmmm .... I will see at the end, when the masts, spars and sails are added how it will look like ....

.... also the question to the members watching this building log -> What do you think?

BTW:
We have now reached more than 1.000 posts in this building log -
Many Thanks to all of you having interest in my work, following and / or commenting in this topic :cool:
Also off course for all the likes received
Click to expand...
The drawing shows what I think would be logical that oars be split into two groups and hung half on each side for balance and to reduce bulk in each group.

But I think the oars are a good fit on aft side of hull, stored out of way for use when needed.
 
Having the oars stowed on the outboard sides aft is, as Oliver mentioned, a very interesting detail.

As others have said it would also make sense for an equal number of oars to be placed both sides. The oars were no doubt difficult to deploy when needed so having them ready each side would make handling easier for the crew.

The book “The Sailing Frigate“ by Robert Gardiner has, on pages 98-101 some information and details on the use of oars. There is some discussion on if, and when, oars would be carried.

So if you are sending your excellent model to war in the Americas to fight, then as you say, you need room for your cannons on deck. Which means securing the oars in the crutches each side aft.

I wonder also, in expected heavy weather and high seas, if they moved the oars from the outboard sides of the ship onto the main-deck?
 
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Many thanks to @Olivers Historic Shipyard , @RDN1954 ,@pianoforte, @Kkonrath and @RogerD for your comments, hints and opinions.
And I guess you are right to install finaly alongside near the stern on both sides.
I tried first to put the 8 kit-oars to only one side, because Boudriot was writing that the ship had more oars on board, but too less seaman to handle all of them.
I guess I will stick with the 8 oars from the kit (but maybe Tom from @CAFmodel will provide me one more set of oars) and will stor them on each side four pcs.

I just made a small test with some wire, in order to see how it will look like - so here 2 times 4 oars

IMG-7376.jpg

IMG-7377.jpg

IMG-7378.jpg

IMG-7379.jpg

IMG-7380.jpg

IMG-7381.jpg

With the small number of oars on each side it is also much easier to store them in such a way, that the oars have all the same direction, means on the fore end are every time the handles and aft the blades - with more oars together I guess they would have to be mixed in order to get a "good package"

Is somebody knows or has a sketch / photo how such cages / iron crotches (according Boudriot) are looking like and were fixed to the ship ..... would be great to see - otherwise I have to think by myself how they could look like and would work, also in heavy seas etc. Boudriot has no information at all in the monograph of the Le Coureur...... but first I will check “The Sailing Frigate“ by Robert Gardiner like Roger mentioned, and also the monograph of the LE REQUIN - thanks to Tobias for the hint
 
Uwek said:
Many thanks to @Olivers Historic Shipyard , @RDN1954 ,@pianoforte, @Kkonrath and @RogerD for your comments, hints and opinions.
And I guess you are right to install finaly alongside near the stern on both sides.
I tried first to put the 8 kit-oars to only one side, because Boudriot was writing that the ship had more oars on board, but too less seaman to handle all of them.
I guess I will stick with the 8 oars from the kit (but maybe Tom from @CAFmodel will provide me one more set of oars) and will stor them on each side four pcs.

I just made a small test with some wire, in order to see how it will look like - so here 2 times 4 oars

View attachment 257714

View attachment 257715

View attachment 257716

View attachment 257717

View attachment 257718

View attachment 257719

With the small number of oars on each side it is also much easier to store them in such a way, that the oars have all the same direction, means on the fore end are every time the handles and aft the blades - with more oars together I guess they would have to be mixed in order to get a "good package"

Is somebody knows or has a sketch / photo how such cages / iron crotches (according Boudriot) are looking like and were fixed to the ship ..... would be great to see - otherwise I have to think by myself how they could look like and would work, also in heavy seas etc. Boudriot has no information at all in the monograph of the Le Coureur...... but first I will check “The Sailing Frigate“ by Robert Gardiner like Roger mentioned, and also the monograph of the LE REQUIN - thanks to Tobias for the hint
Click to expand...
The four oars each side option is for me the most appealing. Having said that; above all, it's your build!
;)
 
Lucius said:
I am happy to see pictures from my own Le Requien. In the appendix you can see the mounting of the oars on my model.
Click to expand...

Many Many thanks to Rüdiger Eschker alias @Lucius showing us this detail made on his amazing model of the Le Requin he built some years ago.

Before I come to the cage for the oars I want to give you all the link to the web-page showing much more photos of the finished model - Take a look and enjoy

Unbenannt.JPG


If you are interested also in the construction of his model, please take a look at his building log (in german language) in the german forum:

Baubericht » Le Requin 1750

Hallo liebe Mitstreiter, Nach reichlicher Überlegung und mancher Enttäuschung betreffend meiner Bauberichte im Forum Bolitho (war alles über Na
www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com

BTW: In a private communication with Rüdiger I got the acceptance to use his photos here in our forum - many thanks once more
 
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