Modelship Dockyard - New Kit [Modelship Dockyard] PoF H.M.S. Enterprize 1774, the 1/48 version!

Sorry for not understanding, but what are the sandwich parts. This is a new term for me.
Thanks Dirk
I believe this is what he is referring to as a "sandwich" part.
1717449952992.png

This is not accurate compared to the real ship as the slots were just into the beam and the beam was a single piece rather than gluing 2 pieces with slots on the outside of the beam.

maybe if they were made out of the same piece of wood they would be less visible.

Of course, to make this change, they would need to redesign their cutting of these parts which would delay the release of the kit.

Jeff
 
This construction makes sense if the builder gets every deck beam in exactly the right place. Before cutting the slots for the carlings some builders lay in all the beams and mark the spots to be chiseled out. The beams are removed, the slots cut in the proper depth horizontally and vertically to create notch/shelf for the carlings to rest in and then glued in place. The same is done to the carlings for the ledges.
Allan
 
The Enterprize (28) 1774 carried twenty-four Armstrong Frederick 9 pounders and four 3 pounders. Will the cannon and carriages in the kit be AF pattern or some other stock kit pattern? With exception of HMS Active, all the 28 gun sixth rates at the time of Enterprize carried 7 foot nines as in the sketch below. The best looking guns I have seen in a long time are now 3D printed and would help keep the cost of the kit down.
Allan
View attachment 450696
No 3D printed plastic part has a good looking to me. I'd rather prefer brass cannons by far, even if they weren't totally accurate. Not a big problem, tough. I'd eventually purchase some aftermarket brass barrels. Regards, Alberto
 
I believe this is what he is referring to as a "sandwich" part.
View attachment 451203

This is not accurate compared to the real ship as the slots were just into the beam and the beam was a single piece rather than gluing 2 pieces with slots on the outside of the beam.

maybe if they were made out of the same piece of wood they would be less visible.

Of course, to make this change, they would need to redesign their cutting of these parts which would delay the release of the kit.

Jeff
If lasered from the same raw plank, the sandwich would surely be almost invisible... at least until you apply any oil or varnish on it. Anyway, this solution wouldn't prevent the carling's weaving feared by Uwek, which mostly depends on inaccurate and asymmetrical fearing of the beams
 
No 3D printed plastic part has a good looking to me
Ciao Alberto,
A chance for us to agree to disagree. :) I agree there are some fine barrels that can be purchased, but if the needed pattern and size are not available there are other options that provide first class barrels.
Allan
 
Hi Zoly
I agree they look to be very nicely made but if this is for the Enterprize of 1774 there would have been Armstrong Frederick patterns for the long guns. I realize it would be too costly to provide every pattern and size in brass for any kit maker. Thankfully the advent of 3D printed barrels may be a choice for some builders. Also, there appear to be carronades in the photo. If the model is depicted at the time she was launched, there would not have been any carronades as these were not issued until the autumn of 1778.
Allan
 
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Once cannon have been painted they look the same whether they were brass or resin. I've used both and I can't tell any difference after painting.
 
Once cannon have been painted they look the same whether they were brass or resin. I've used both and I can't tell any difference after painting.
some modelers, like myself, cannot paint. I've tried a few times and ruined the work. With brass barrels, you can chemically blacken. thought. Also, some eras and countries use bronze barrels so no finish is required, ;) .
 
Ciao Alberto,
A chance for us to agree to disagree. :) I agree there are some fine barrels that can be purchased, but if the needed pattern and size are not available there are other options that provide first class barrels.
Allan
Hi Allan, in my humble experience as a modelship "spectator" the biggest issue affecting naval gunnery is the whole inaccuracy of train tackles and carriages. Most of gun barrels available in the market got too large bores as well. I purchased a couple of gun from Vanguard Model for my curiosity and yes, resin barrels are amazing and come already perfect in their dull black... but they needed their trunnions to be cut off as they resulted too short to match the carriage and too small in diameter for a pop gun (a 3 or 4 pounder to "rock" my boring Hoy a bit up..). Here below the original barrel and the one still waiting for brand new trunnions.

17175294266241592263911858476385.jpg

17175300070048495419549272835326.jpg
 
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Hi Zoly
I agree they look to be very nicely made but if this is for the Enterprize of 1774 there would have been Armstrong Frederick patterns for the long guns. I realize it would be too costly to provide every pattern and size in brass for any kit maker. Thankfully the advent of 3D printed barrels may be a choice for some builders. Also, there appear to be carronades in the photo. If the model is depicted at the time she was launched, there would not have been any carronades as these were not issued until the autumn of 1778.
Allan

the armament of the Enterprise
- so the Carronades were installed on the HMS Enterprise in 1781 during her refitting in Woolwhich dockyard

Screenshot 2024-06-07 083256.png


BTW: Other sisterships of the Enterprize-class which were launched later were already out-fitted with the Carronades
- it seems, that they changed the armament with lanches in 1779

 
the whole inaccuracy of train tackles and carriages.
I agree. Too many times we see double blocks on the running out and training tackle. For the English, according to Adrian Caruana in The History of English Sea Ordnance 32 pounders had a single block and double block on each side. Smaller calibers all had two single blocks.
but they needed their trunnions to be cut off
Do you know what pattern the guns in the photos are? They look like Borgards from 1716-1724 but the cypher would have been the George I design. Enterprise would have likely had Armstrong Frederick pattern guns when launched with the tell tale cascabel ring and George III cypher. I have no idea what lengths the barrels were on Enterprise but on the below you an see the cypher and the ring around the cascabel button. I have 3D drawings in STL of this gun. I can email them to you if you wish to have them made. They cost me less than a dollar each at 1:64 scale in the US when buying 20 barrels so I would think they should be no more than one Euro each.
8 foot 9 pounder.PNG

What is the thickness of the brackets? They should be about 4.5" for a 9 pounder. Perhaps the brackets are too thick versus the trunnions too short????

In any case the carriage does not look like a carriage that would have been used for an Armstrong Frederick. There are a number of differences including the trunnion groove was as far forward as practicable on the brackets.
Armstrong Frederick carriage.PNG
Allan
 
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Dear Allan,
Thanks for you kind offer. Vanguard ascribes it to "Armstrong" pattern. I bought them just thinking of a barrel lenght of a 3 or 4 pounder at 1/4'' (1:48) based on Alert 1777's monograph. I can remeber Vanguard intended it to be a short 12 or 18 pounder at 1/64. The trunnions are othewise too short given those brackets (pics down below show sufficient trunnion length). Not a big issue thoug, as I have not decided to add cannons to my Hoy yet. Enterprise at 1:48 is still an idea. I'm waiting to see how it will be developed. Hayling Hoy, from Dockyard, altough a good and affordable experience overall, got some severe limits in kit design that could turn into a nightmere on Enterprize's larger proportions.
Regards!
Alberto

DSC_5711.jpg
 
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Vanguard ascribes it to "Amstrong" pattern

Understood. :) They make a fine product but these are misnamed for sure. The Armstrong had no vent field where as the later pattern Armstrong Frederick did have a vent field. Both had the ring on the button which really distinguishes them from earlier patterns. One of the things that has always been a question mark for me are the trucks. When were trucks made of multiple pieces versus single pieces? Based on the bolts and split they look to be made of four pieces. I have looked off and on for a long time but so far cannot find any evidence based on contemporary information that they were made of more than one piece of wood as described by Falconer. Hopefully someone can post something about this.
Allan
 
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Looks like a great kit. Only drawback is that it will probably cost more than my monthly mortgage payment. $1,500? $2,000? $2,500? The sky now seems to be the limit for POF kits, whether from the US (Speedwell from Syren, approx. $2,500) or China (La Renomee from CAF, Aprox. $2,400 for all sections plus shipping.)

. Building a POF kit now requires not just experience and skill but also deep pockets. I’m sure these kits are very well designed and produced and the quality is great. But, they are priced out of reach for most of us. Just imagine telling your wife you just spent $2,500 for your kit.

I spent almost $1,000 on the Sphinx from Vanguard and it was well worth it. But, spending double or more for a kit just places many of them out of reach.
 
@AllanKP69 and @albertmary This is the Enterprise development topic and your gun discussion derailed a bit from the topic. If you need naval gun discussions please create a new thread. I can move your posts there. ;)
 
Looks like a great kit. Only drawback is that it will probably cost more than my monthly mortgage payment. $1,500? $2,000? $2,500? The sky now seems to be the limit for POF kits, whether from the US (Speedwell from Syren, approx. $2,500) or China (La Renomee from CAF, Aprox. $2,400 for all sections plus shipping.)

. Building a POF kit now requires not just experience and skill but also deep pockets. I’m sure these kits are very well designed and produced and the quality is great. But, they are priced out of reach for most of us. Just imagine telling your wife you just spent $2,500 for your kit.

I spent almost $1,000 on the Sphinx from Vanguard and it was well worth it. But, spending double or more for a kit just places many of them out of reach.
I have to disapoint you but this kit won’t cost you $2500 and will be the same quality if not better thsn any other counterparts
 
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