Roter Löwe 1597 by Ondras71 - scala 1/60
- Thread starter Ondras71
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Dear Ondras
The less said about the Barentsz's ship replica, the better. The Duyfken is not the Willem Barentsz (I only spoke of the Willem Barentsz)
I quote directly from the book "Het Schip van Barents" by Ab Hoving, Peter Sigmond en Cor Emke.
"Door de ingesnoerde vorm van de scheepsromp was een aparte, buiten het profiel van de romp uitstekende rust niet nodig; de juffers zijn direct op een berghout gemonteerd."
In English:
"Due to the angled shape of the hull, a separate rest, protruding outside the profile of the hull was not necessary; the deadeyes are mounted directly on the wales."
If your hull shape calls for channels, that is another story, but the plans are not necessarily stupid. The picture I posted is of Ab's own model of the Willem Barentsz.
The less said about the Barentsz's ship replica, the better. The Duyfken is not the Willem Barentsz (I only spoke of the Willem Barentsz)
I quote directly from the book "Het Schip van Barents" by Ab Hoving, Peter Sigmond en Cor Emke.
"Door de ingesnoerde vorm van de scheepsromp was een aparte, buiten het profiel van de romp uitstekende rust niet nodig; de juffers zijn direct op een berghout gemonteerd."
In English:
"Due to the angled shape of the hull, a separate rest, protruding outside the profile of the hull was not necessary; the deadeyes are mounted directly on the wales."
If your hull shape calls for channels, that is another story, but the plans are not necessarily stupid. The picture I posted is of Ab's own model of the Willem Barentsz.
Hi Heinrich!
Ondras means such an unfortunate attached rigging on the mizzenmast, e.g. of a well-known manufacturer of model kits of the Endeavour, although even channels are available. The mizzenmast is too short or the channel too small.
The replica was simply given a wide channel because of the short mizzenmast.
Heinrich, please leave your model as it is. There is no clear drawing of a channel and Ab Hoving is trustworthy in your case.
Best regards
Thomas
Ondras means such an unfortunate attached rigging on the mizzenmast, e.g. of a well-known manufacturer of model kits of the Endeavour, although even channels are available. The mizzenmast is too short or the channel too small.
The replica was simply given a wide channel because of the short mizzenmast.
Heinrich, please leave your model as it is. There is no clear drawing of a channel and Ab Hoving is trustworthy in your case.
Best regards
Thomas
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Thanks for the debate guys. Yes, I wanted to avoid breaking the rope shrouds on the railing. This would degrade the entire work on the model.
I found such a Roter Lowe on the Internet. Author unknown.
I found such a Roter Lowe on the Internet. Author unknown.
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@Thomas Marocke
@Steef66
Dear Thomas. I understand exactly what Ondras meant. I will certainly not change anything on my model.
Dear Stephan. The drawing you have shown is a color-enhanced Alamy-derived artist's impression which is so far from original that it doesn't even warrant further comment (very much like the replica). On my model the shrouds clear the sides of the ship with ease. Channels are not required, nor are they correct on the Willem Barentsz - irrespective of what others may have done on their models.
Dear Ondras. If the shrouds will touch the sides of the ship on the Roter Lowe then obviously you need to use channels. I did not mean to start a debate - I was merely saying the plans are not necessarily incorrect.
@Steef66
Dear Thomas. I understand exactly what Ondras meant. I will certainly not change anything on my model.
Dear Stephan. The drawing you have shown is a color-enhanced Alamy-derived artist's impression which is so far from original that it doesn't even warrant further comment (very much like the replica). On my model the shrouds clear the sides of the ship with ease. Channels are not required, nor are they correct on the Willem Barentsz - irrespective of what others may have done on their models.
Dear Ondras. If the shrouds will touch the sides of the ship on the Roter Lowe then obviously you need to use channels. I did not mean to start a debate - I was merely saying the plans are not necessarily incorrect.
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No it is an old angraving. That original is Black and White. But it's coloured to highlight the details. Besides used by you to defence your opinion about no mizzen stay.
But like I said nobody will know for sure.
Source National Maritime Museum, London
sorry Ondras for hijacking your buildlog.
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My I give also my 2 cents to this discussion?!?
I think it is pure question of technic
black is the ships hull and the deck
brown the mast
green are the shrouds
red the channel
In principle the shrouds are taking over the forces from the mast and transfer these forces via the channels into the ships hull (frames and beams)
On the left a "normal ships hull form - the shrouds have to be away from the rails because they are under tension
In the earlier time the channels were mounted under the gunports, so the channels were even wider to bring the shrouds away from the railing
When the ships ull has a form like in the center sketch, no channels are necessary, because the shrouds are still streight and can be under tension without producing any forces towards the railing
The right sketch is showing a situation, which was not possible, because the shrouds would get a kink at the top of the rail - and the shrouds would produce a force against the rail - and would damage them (this new force is the purple arrow)
So all of you are somehow correct - it depends on the hullform, the height of the mast and the location where the shrouds are fixed towards the hull.
BTW: the mast is bending when the wind is blowing against the sails - so the mast top is moving - I do not know exactly, but I could imagine that the mast top could move up to 50cm towards port or starboard - this means, that also the shrouds are slightly outboard and inboard. So the shrouds have to have a slight distance towards the railing
Sorry @Ondras71 for my 2 cents in your highly interesting building log.......
I think it is pure question of technic
black is the ships hull and the deck
brown the mast
green are the shrouds
red the channel
In principle the shrouds are taking over the forces from the mast and transfer these forces via the channels into the ships hull (frames and beams)
On the left a "normal ships hull form - the shrouds have to be away from the rails because they are under tension
In the earlier time the channels were mounted under the gunports, so the channels were even wider to bring the shrouds away from the railing
When the ships ull has a form like in the center sketch, no channels are necessary, because the shrouds are still streight and can be under tension without producing any forces towards the railing
The right sketch is showing a situation, which was not possible, because the shrouds would get a kink at the top of the rail - and the shrouds would produce a force against the rail - and would damage them (this new force is the purple arrow)
So all of you are somehow correct - it depends on the hullform, the height of the mast and the location where the shrouds are fixed towards the hull.
BTW: the mast is bending when the wind is blowing against the sails - so the mast top is moving - I do not know exactly, but I could imagine that the mast top could move up to 50cm towards port or starboard - this means, that also the shrouds are slightly outboard and inboard. So the shrouds have to have a slight distance towards the railing
Sorry @Ondras71 for my 2 cents in your highly interesting building log.......
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Hello Ondras. Totally new to this forum and first thing I found is this wonderful work you are doing because I am trying to fix my dad's boat to find some hints on how to repair it: same model, same scale. Just wanted to compliment you: brilliant and meticulous. Thank you.
May I just jump in
First of all a warm welcome here on board of our forum
and second:
Often it is very helpful to make a building log, also starting with the actual status of the model. With this you can show the status of your work and we can discuss the actual problems, working steps, give hints and also answer questions if requested.....
I started making poop deck railings.. 
Railing decoration. The carvings will be too small, I wouldn't make them out of wood. Production of modurit firing compound. I opened the mod from the previous President build. It is still usable after 8 years..
I again studied the instructions of the Czech modeler Doris Obručová for working with modurit and tried the first option..
Rollers approx. 0.6 mm... Temperature 130 degrees Celsius..
Preview, the result will be red..
Railing decoration. The carvings will be too small, I wouldn't make them out of wood. Production of modurit firing compound. I opened the mod from the previous President build. It is still usable after 8 years..
I again studied the instructions of the Czech modeler Doris Obručová for working with modurit and tried the first option..
Rollers approx. 0.6 mm... Temperature 130 degrees Celsius..
Preview, the result will be red..
Ondras that looks brilliant
extremely good result - many thanks to Doris
Thank you very much Tobias and Uwek, thank you for the like.. 
I have repeatedly studied Doris' threads on working with modurite matter. Yes, it's alchemy, it either flows or it breaks..
I was looking for the perfect shape in a book..
According to Doris, he only fired the basic shape..
Then he added the little things that always damaged the foundation. Much better after repeated firing and spraying..
During the fight with modurite, I started making the emblem for the rearview mirror..
I have repeatedly studied Doris' threads on working with modurite matter. Yes, it's alchemy, it either flows or it breaks..
I was looking for the perfect shape in a book..
According to Doris, he only fired the basic shape..
Then he added the little things that always damaged the foundation. Much better after repeated firing and spraying..
During the fight with modurite, I started making the emblem for the rearview mirror..
I patinated and glued the ornament, the back rail glued..
Another fight with the modurit and completing the emblem on the mirror..
I've been studying the Doris threads to work with modurite. It's hard to find, so I'll put a link here for a better search..
I will allow myself a short message that I contacted Doris, she is fine, but she has put the models away for now..
Another fight with the modurit and completing the emblem on the mirror..
I've been studying the Doris threads to work with modurite. It's hard to find, so I'll put a link here for a better search..
I will allow myself a short message that I contacted Doris, she is fine, but she has put the models away for now..
Only 3 *2 cm big - WOW
You are a very good student leanring from Doris this technique
BRAVO - the coat of arms is as good as it was done from Doris
BTW: Good to hear that she is fine
You are a very good student leanring from Doris this technique
BRAVO - the coat of arms is as good as it was done from Doris
BTW: Good to hear that she is fine
Thank you very much Stephan and Uwek Thanks for the like..
Thus, the parts of the emblem are hardened by heat. Just the color..
Completely finished poop deck railing..
Thanks for the like..
Thus, the parts of the emblem are hardened by heat. Just the color..
Completely finished poop deck railing..
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Wow great work.Thank you very much Stephan and Uwek
Thus, the parts of the emblem are hardened by heat. Just the color..
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Completely finished poop deck railing..
View attachment 362060
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View attachment 362057