Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
FORE COURSE, TOPSAIL, GALLANT, AND ROYAL HALYARDS RELOCATION PROJECT.
(cont.)...
FORE COURSE, TOPSAIL, GALLANT, AND ROYAL HALYARDS RELOCATION PROJECT.
(cont.)...
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Continuation. Termination of the Halyards at Foremast. This approach should have been done from beginning.
Continuation. Termination of the Halyards at Foremast. This approach should have been done from beginning.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
I bet you feel a whole lot happier knowing the lines are in the right place now
I bet you feel a whole lot happier knowing the lines are in the right place now
C
CharlesEdward
Guest
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Hi Donnie and others. I am back after over a two-year hiatus. I have been reading a lot of build logs lately to get my mind set up again for modeling. I have just looked at these recent posts of yours Donnie and realize that I will use your pictures as how to rig my masts on BOTH my MONTANES and the NUESTRA SENORA del PILAR model since I have been trying to figure out those terrible OcCre rigging instructions for months now. A lot of those stays and back stays terminate on the deck through either eyelets, or blocks such as you are showing here. I could never really get those particular lines figured out but now I may have a chance.
Great jog Donnie, glad to see that you are still on it and giving us duffers decent advice. I will post some updates on my Montanes log tomorrow, although not much will change, but I leave it to you folks to read on my own build log.
Hi Donnie and others. I am back after over a two-year hiatus. I have been reading a lot of build logs lately to get my mind set up again for modeling. I have just looked at these recent posts of yours Donnie and realize that I will use your pictures as how to rig my masts on BOTH my MONTANES and the NUESTRA SENORA del PILAR model since I have been trying to figure out those terrible OcCre rigging instructions for months now. A lot of those stays and back stays terminate on the deck through either eyelets, or blocks such as you are showing here. I could never really get those particular lines figured out but now I may have a chance.
Great jog Donnie, glad to see that you are still on it and giving us duffers decent advice. I will post some updates on my Montanes log tomorrow, although not much will change, but I leave it to you folks to read on my own build log.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
John ---
I am very happy to see you back !!!!
First of all, you are very correct about the OcCre rigging plates and plans. I personally have struggled trying to make sense of it all. The main problem is this: No consistences anywhere. For instance.
1. The photographed manual that shows pics of the rigging for the stays do NOT agree with the "Profile" plan view (the big sheet). Next, all of this does not agree with the "rigging plate" as far as the back stays.
2. I did have my stays on pulleys and my Halyards simply pulled through the Bitt rails (near the mast base), but at some point, that did not make sense. I was thinking why do they have the lower and upper stays on pulleys in the first place. Seems like that should be a permanent fix. But, the plans show them on pulleys where in other places like the photos do not. It almost seems like 3 or 4 people worked on the design of the kit.
The point is that if you are going to rig it covering ALL aspects of what they suggest, then you need to have enough pulleys and eyebolts to do the job --- and the problem is that neither exist.
It is almost impossible to do the rigging correctly by not having enough pulleys and eyebolts to do what is required. So, therefore you see that I re done ALL the Halyards. Even now, I am not 100% happy, but it is going to have to do. I apologize to those that are following this build. I have looked at just about every ST out there I could get my hands on and all are different.
Attached is the plate for the Halyards and associated pulley tie off points. Notice - which direction is the fore and aft -- ALL in a straight line with the mast in the center.
Where are the eyebolts? If you look at the plate for the fore and main stays, they seem to conflict with using a pulley or not to use one. So, I just gave up and decided that all Halyard yard lifts will be on pulleys and the mast stays fore and main will use an eyebolt. I have yet to find any rhyme or reason as the plans all conflict with each other.
John,
I wish you well on your Nuestra and your montanes. I would like to know if the Nuestra suffers the same or it all could just be ME !!! Maybe I simply just don't get it and understand the whole thing. I still say that my lack of experience prevails in this whole matter - then you mix that will incomplete documentation and I have a huge mess on my hands.
John ---
I am very happy to see you back !!!!
First of all, you are very correct about the OcCre rigging plates and plans. I personally have struggled trying to make sense of it all. The main problem is this: No consistences anywhere. For instance.
1. The photographed manual that shows pics of the rigging for the stays do NOT agree with the "Profile" plan view (the big sheet). Next, all of this does not agree with the "rigging plate" as far as the back stays.
2. I did have my stays on pulleys and my Halyards simply pulled through the Bitt rails (near the mast base), but at some point, that did not make sense. I was thinking why do they have the lower and upper stays on pulleys in the first place. Seems like that should be a permanent fix. But, the plans show them on pulleys where in other places like the photos do not. It almost seems like 3 or 4 people worked on the design of the kit.
The point is that if you are going to rig it covering ALL aspects of what they suggest, then you need to have enough pulleys and eyebolts to do the job --- and the problem is that neither exist.
It is almost impossible to do the rigging correctly by not having enough pulleys and eyebolts to do what is required. So, therefore you see that I re done ALL the Halyards. Even now, I am not 100% happy, but it is going to have to do. I apologize to those that are following this build. I have looked at just about every ST out there I could get my hands on and all are different.
Attached is the plate for the Halyards and associated pulley tie off points. Notice - which direction is the fore and aft -- ALL in a straight line with the mast in the center.
Where are the eyebolts? If you look at the plate for the fore and main stays, they seem to conflict with using a pulley or not to use one. So, I just gave up and decided that all Halyard yard lifts will be on pulleys and the mast stays fore and main will use an eyebolt. I have yet to find any rhyme or reason as the plans all conflict with each other.
John,
I wish you well on your Nuestra and your montanes. I would like to know if the Nuestra suffers the same or it all could just be ME !!! Maybe I simply just don't get it and understand the whole thing. I still say that my lack of experience prevails in this whole matter - then you mix that will incomplete documentation and I have a huge mess on my hands.
C
CharlesEdward
Guest
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
I have been studying the Nuestra rigging plans since I received the kit and they have the same "consistancy" as the Montanes plans, which is absolutely NONE.
I agree it seems that more than one person was drawing these plates. I have extensiveily studied the James Lee book "The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War", to try to make more sense of what the OcCre plans are trying to show. Even though these kits are Spanish, rigging is rigging be it Dutch, French, English or Spanish. There are a few other books that I have that I am looking at so they may all help a bit, but what you show here on your log seems much more clearer to me now.
Still some study to do yet but we shall see how it goes.
I have been studying the Nuestra rigging plans since I received the kit and they have the same "consistancy" as the Montanes plans, which is absolutely NONE.
I agree it seems that more than one person was drawing these plates. I have extensiveily studied the James Lee book "The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War", to try to make more sense of what the OcCre plans are trying to show. Even though these kits are Spanish, rigging is rigging be it Dutch, French, English or Spanish. There are a few other books that I have that I am looking at so they may all help a bit, but what you show here on your log seems much more clearer to me now.
Still some study to do yet but we shall see how it goes.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
John,
the last modification that I did to the halyards was part due to De Agonista Part Build. Someone from a long ago sent me a few diagrams just enough to figure out what was going on with the Deck Pulleys. It was all spanish, so I had to use google translate and manually type in the paragraphs.
I still think kit manufactures think we live in a world of "it don't matter" and who is going to know. They don't realize the consistences drive us crazy trying to figure things out.
I wish I could see some examples of the rigging plates. Do you have a plate similar to the one I just posted that shows details about how to rig the yard lift halyards?
I am now working on the main mast yard halyards and should be finished with it. I am wondering how you got the Nuestra Senora del mar as it was an OcCre Club only kit.
John,
the last modification that I did to the halyards was part due to De Agonista Part Build. Someone from a long ago sent me a few diagrams just enough to figure out what was going on with the Deck Pulleys. It was all spanish, so I had to use google translate and manually type in the paragraphs.
I still think kit manufactures think we live in a world of "it don't matter" and who is going to know. They don't realize the consistences drive us crazy trying to figure things out.
I wish I could see some examples of the rigging plates. Do you have a plate similar to the one I just posted that shows details about how to rig the yard lift halyards?
I am now working on the main mast yard halyards and should be finished with it. I am wondering how you got the Nuestra Senora del mar as it was an OcCre Club only kit.
C
CharlesEdward
Guest
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
It showed up in an advertising email from Model Expo to me stating that they had some of these kits in stock at that time. Since I REALLY wanted this kit, (for about four years I believe), I actually paid down one of my credit cards just to be able to order the kit.
Apparently, OcCre shipped out some surplus kits or ME got ahold of about a dozen of those kits somehow. The kit was not packaged like any of the kits we order, one custom box just for that one kit. It arrived in a BIG plain cardboard box with six smaller card board boxes inside, each one labeled Pack 1, Pack 2, Pack 3 and etc. Matching the actual packs that the OcCre Club member received. Another problem was that the instructions as well as the parts list were all in Spanish, but ME did supply English versions of said parts and instructions, once I emailed ME customer service regarding the problem.
It showed up in an advertising email from Model Expo to me stating that they had some of these kits in stock at that time. Since I REALLY wanted this kit, (for about four years I believe), I actually paid down one of my credit cards just to be able to order the kit.
Apparently, OcCre shipped out some surplus kits or ME got ahold of about a dozen of those kits somehow. The kit was not packaged like any of the kits we order, one custom box just for that one kit. It arrived in a BIG plain cardboard box with six smaller card board boxes inside, each one labeled Pack 1, Pack 2, Pack 3 and etc. Matching the actual packs that the OcCre Club member received. Another problem was that the instructions as well as the parts list were all in Spanish, but ME did supply English versions of said parts and instructions, once I emailed ME customer service regarding the problem.
C
CharlesEdward
Guest
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Oops, I didn't answer your question about the yard lift halyards, I will have to see if I can find any in my ship modeling library. The James Lee book is good, but you basically have to go page by page to get to what you want. The Wolfram zu Mondfeld book "Historic Ship Models" has a few picture plate that shows something of those, but not EXACTLY as it shows different examples of lateen yard lifts throughout the centuries and Halyards and slings throughout the centuries.
The Mamoli, Corel and Mantua rigging instructions, seems to be very helpful in some of these areas as it steps you through the numbered blocks, eyelets and various other line termination tackle. although they are inconsistent in the quality and clarity of many other instructions. I can follow something like this: 21; 24; 21; 24; as long as the blocks or chocks (?) are numbered correctly in the plans.
Let me look at these books this evening and see if I can find something for you.
Oops, I didn't answer your question about the yard lift halyards, I will have to see if I can find any in my ship modeling library. The James Lee book is good, but you basically have to go page by page to get to what you want. The Wolfram zu Mondfeld book "Historic Ship Models" has a few picture plate that shows something of those, but not EXACTLY as it shows different examples of lateen yard lifts throughout the centuries and Halyards and slings throughout the centuries.
The Mamoli, Corel and Mantua rigging instructions, seems to be very helpful in some of these areas as it steps you through the numbered blocks, eyelets and various other line termination tackle. although they are inconsistent in the quality and clarity of many other instructions. I can follow something like this: 21; 24; 21; 24; as long as the blocks or chocks (?) are numbered correctly in the plans.
Let me look at these books this evening and see if I can find something for you.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Ok, here's the latest. Redone all the Halyard tie off points for the Royal, Top Gallant, Top Main, and Main.<br/>
MAIN ROYAL YARD HALYARD
MAIN TOP GALLANT YARD HALYARD
MAIN TOP SAIL YARD HALYARD
MAIN SAIL YARD HALYARD
Ok, here's the latest. Redone all the Halyard tie off points for the Royal, Top Gallant, Top Main, and Main.<br/>
MAIN ROYAL YARD HALYARD
MAIN TOP GALLANT YARD HALYARD
MAIN TOP SAIL YARD HALYARD
MAIN SAIL YARD HALYARD
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
I will agree to that 100% and them some !!! Jus trying to help someone out there thats doing this model. Its been kinda rough. I really don't lack much. Working on the Bowsprit yards now.
I will agree to that 100% and them some !!! Jus trying to help someone out there thats doing this model. Its been kinda rough. I really don't lack much. Working on the Bowsprit yards now.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Well, it is getting late and this is my last post for the day ! Enjoy. My Spritsails.
Well, it is getting late and this is my last post for the day ! Enjoy. My Spritsails.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
After watching this rigging deal, I think you should change you saying from "no guts, no glory" to "Have guts and paying the price."
After watching this rigging deal, I think you should change you saying from "no guts, no glory" to "Have guts and paying the price."
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
I agree with Gary
I agree with Gary
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Here's some Sprit Sails as is continues...
Here's some Sprit Sails as is continues...
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Yep, that's what she said !
Yep, that's what she said !
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
To the best of my estimation, this should be the way the Bowsprit rigging is laid out.
To the best of my estimation, this should be the way the Bowsprit rigging is laid out.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
Spritsail Braces
Spritsail Braces
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
You are really creating a great spider web there Donnie.
You are really creating a great spider web there Donnie.
Re: OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build Log
I guess its a good thing that I do not have any cats in the house !
I guess its a good thing that I do not have any cats in the house !