Tecumseth 1815

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

IMHO
I haven’t looked at all the ramifications of this sketch but here it is

.oh? i like it after work i will do a foam mockup of your idea it solves the issue of trying to bend that cap piece at the side.

thanks MavRick

 

[Sailor_ed]

The Sultana (schooner) had extensions beyond the hull planking but I haven't been able to find construction details In this second photo you can see the join in the caprail. The Pride of Baltimore also had small extensions: It seems like this construction is like a transom with quarter galleries but without the galleries. Any construction hints there? Fair winds..... Ed

 

[Sailor_ed]

Sorry when I edited this post it reordered all the photos. Hope it's obvious?

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

thanks guys for you input on the stern i looked at a lot of images, thought about it and this is my final design.

the first thing i considered is the joinery of the moldings and stern planks, these would not be left out hanging over the hull without some sort of support or something to nail them to.



i redid the mockup pattern pieces in foam board.




here is how it all fits together
first a backup piece to support and secure the ends of the moldings and planks



and the arch side molding sits on top of the wale and butts against the backing piece.



adding the cover board



finally, the cap rail which now has a solid piece of timber to nail to.




Now i have the patterns so i will transfer the shapes of the foam board pieces on to wood.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

back to the build i cut the molding out of wood and finished off the stern. now i have the molding in place and a solid piece of timber backing up the stern.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i was thinking i might cut the ends of the cap rail out of one piece of wood like i did with the mockup. this would result in 2 end pieces and the center piece. I would not have to bend the ends.



Then i thought why not try to bend the cap in one piece so i used a scrap piece of wood and cut a form the shape of the stern and use it to bend the cap.

Bending it dry this is a far as it will bend without breaking.


to get that tight bend at the ends i will have to soak the wood and try steam bending. i used the hot stove pipe on my wood burning stove to create the needed steam. No problem at all the cap bent like warm butter over the form.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

I let it dry over night to set the shape and when i unclamped the cap piece from the form it held its shape. Only one problem is because the cap is only 1/16 thick it warped at lot! but i am able to twist and move the wood without breaking it.

 

[Sailor_ed]

Given your understanding of these matters I'm sure your solutions will be very close to original practice.
Fair winds.. Ed

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

The problem is the cap arcs in 2 directions, i bent the cap from side to side but it also arcs from front to back Showen on the right



What i decided to do was make the cap much wider than i needed and fit it to the stern. once the cap is set in place i will go back and trim the width to the arc of the stern.



just a slight issue is at the very end the cap does not bend to fit the stern so i will have to try and force that last bit and hope i don't break it.

 

[Sailor_ed]

You see that it is pieced up on the replica Sultana.Then again I have seen some impressive bent wood on yachts. Never been very sucsessful in my modeling though. .Ed

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

You see that it is pieced up on the replica Sultana.Then again I have seen some impressive bent wood on yachts. Never been very sucsessful in my modeling though. .Ed

that cap would be an extreme bend on the full size ship so i think it was done in 3 pieces.
for the model i tried the one piece bend and i actually surprised myself that it bent.

bending wood big or small takes a lot of heat not just soaking in hot water. When i bend i use my stove pipe and wear welder's gloves because it is hot. It takes about 20 to 30 seconds to turn the water to steam and the wood bends pretty easy.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i had to think about how i was going to approach the stern cap. I could have fabricated it off the stern but i thought that might be difficult to get it just right, there is a slight overhang to the cap and getting that even is a challenge. What i did was glue the wide pieces of wood to the stern and use the stern itself and shape the oversize piece to it. I left plenty on the outside and inside to accommodate the arch of the stern.

There was no way to clamp the cap to the stern and the pre bent piece was not quite a tight fit over the stern, so i used Gorilla super glue and held the cap in place by hand.



As the picture shows i sanded the width and as i did that i also sanded in the arch.



The stern is now done, is it exactly like the Tecumseth? i don't know but it is based on the original drawing, and it sort of just came together naturally. Well! maybe but i am satisfied with it

 

[Sailor_ed]

That certainly does solve the problem. I understand why you proceeded the way you did but I think it would look better if the cap's upper surface were parallel to the waterline in side view ie as the Sultana replica was done. Probably impossible unless pieced up.
Fair winds.. Ed

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

That certainly does solve the problem. I understand why you proceeded the way you did but I think it would look better if the cap's upper surface were parallel to the waterline in side view ie as the Sultana replica was done. Probably impossible unless pieced up.
Fair winds.. Ed

your right about the cap surface being parallel to the waterline i saw that too late. i did correct it to a point but not enough. Then i could not form the sheet to the stern exactly. I could not use clamps so i used my hands gripping the stern and choking it for a minute and a half

i could rip it off and reshape the stern so it sits flatter but for now it time for the cover board long the waterway. This is going to be a tough job.

AS i get along with the model and finish it and if that stern caps haunts me long enough i might rip it apart.

entered into the build log star date 2 12 2022
ed
correction to anyone who might try to build this make the stern cap flatter

i agree

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

but I think it would look better if the cap's upper surface were parallel to the waterline in side view

i played around with the stern cap and you right it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to make it parallel with the waterline the way i did it in one bent piece. The flatter i made the top the more the sides kicked backwards. Plus the fact the hull was built on a level keel but when the hull was a float there was a rake to it.

 

[Sailor_ed]

Sometimes you just have to sleep on things a while.

Fair winds.. Ed

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Sometimes you just have to sleep on things a while.

Fair winds.. Ed

yup your right Ed and i will ponder that stern cap for some time. it is not difficult to rip it off

what i have in mind is cutting out the center section and replacing it so it sits parallel or at least more parallel to the waterline, like this is done where the center section meets the davits. Then i can blend in the top to the sides. If i can get the top off in one piece i can use it as a pattern. In one piece like i did would require a bend around the stern ends, an arch fore and back and an added twist, that is extreme bending.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

next step of the build is the cover board that goes over the waterway you can see it under the cannons and in the background you see it sitting on the waterway.




here is one in the wild



the board notches around the stanchions and a molding is run along the outer edge.

on the Tecumseth the cover board runs from stem to stern



it purpose is to cover the open spaces between the frames



on the outside it sits on top of the frames and flush with the outer face of the frames, on the inside it sits on the waterway.



i have done these cover boards on a few other models and they are not easy to do. First of all, they have to match up to the curve of the hull from stem to stern inside and out. Then they have to notch around the stanchions, if you cut one wrong the entire board is scrap because this joinery will show in the finished model. There is not a single straight section to the cover board it is one continuous curve.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

first to consider is that flowing curve of the hull from stem to stern. Even though it is on the drawing i have yet to match a built model to exactly the plans so i could just cut it out and drop it on the model. I will need to custom fit it to the hull.
The plan is to make the cover board flush with the outer frame and just a little overhang of the waterway
i will need to cut a notch around the tops of each frame sticking up,

The plastic jug methods worked out on other models so i will try it again



i salvage liquid containers and cut panels from the front, back and sides

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i used cardboard in the past but found it is not stiff enough so i found the plastic in plastic containers works out the best. I can also make very fine shavings on the notches which i could not do with cardboard.
What i an trying to do here is make a template i can use to trace on to wood.



another thing i like about using plastic is you can see through it so once i get a good fit around the stanchions i can see the curve of the waterway under the plastic.




this is NOT my favorite part of a build because it is so tedious, on an average i use one template and trace it again on another pieces of plastic and refine the fit. The average is 3 or 4 times before i get a usable template. The waterway cap is in 3 pieces per side so maybe 18 or more refining before they are right. Those notches around the stanchions are noticeable on the finished model so they have to look nice.
I am thinking there might have been caulk around the notch and stanchion to seal it from water running down into the frames. That i do not know but i could get away with a looser fit with caulking, or a tight fit wood to wood.

The cap is not a structural timber so the ends of each section can butt to one another rather than scarfing the ends together. To me it is logical for a short butt that is 14 inches than a 3 foot scarf. I plan on joining the sections at a stanchion that is even a much less of a seam.